1 Topic by volvodr66

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Topic: Nozzle circuit board connector order

I’m in the process of switching my Davinci Pro 1.0 over to a E3d nozzle and I’m re-using the original circuit board with the E3d set-up.  I have connectors to solder to the new components so I don’t have to solder to the new board I just gave to plug my heater, fan, and thermistor into the board.  The only issue is I forgot to write down which order the connectors go on the board.  The heater connector is different and it’s in the middle, but the thermistor and fan connectors are the same and they’re on the top and bottom.  Does anyone know which one goes on the top and which one goes on the bottom.  I think the fan is on top, the heater in the middle, and the thermistor on the bottom but I’m not sure.

Thanks
Tom

2 Reply by yizhou.he (edited by yizhou.he 2018-12-13 16:01:36)

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Re: Nozzle circuit board connector order

I think thermistor in middle and heater in the bottom. There should be some kind of text on PCB, the one labeled with NTC or THRM is for thermistor.

There is one safe way to test. Since the heater only have power when you heat up the nozzle, you can connect thermistor to any of the two spot safely.

So only plug thermistor to one of the two spot, and leave heater unpluged. Restart the printer, if printer give you room temperature reading, it is the correct spot. and plug heater to the other one. If you connect thermistor to heater plug, since no power on heater plug, it will not burn thermistor, and you will not get temperature reading, in that case, plug thermistor to the other plug and try again.

You may need to restart the printer to make it read temperature. And make sure you don't heat up the nozzle until you are confident you get thermistor in right plug.

(Da Vinci 1.0, Jr. 1.0 RAMPS, miniMaker) X4, (Creality CR-10S, CR-10 mini, Ender-3) X4, Anycubic MEGA X4, Anycubic Chrion X1, ADMILAB Gantry X2 (MonoPrice Maker Select V2, Plus, Ultimate)X4--Select mini X1, Anycubic photon X4, Wanhao duplicate D7 X1.
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3 Reply by carl_m1968

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Re: Nozzle circuit board connector order

yizhou.he wrote:

I think thermistor in middle and heater in the bottom. There should be some kind of text on PCB, the one labeled with NTC or THRM is for thermistor.

There is one safe way to test. Since the heater only have power when you heat up the nozzle, you can connect thermistor to any of the two spot safely.

So only plug thermistor to one of the two spot, and leave heater unpluged. Restart the printer, if printer give you room temperature reading, it is the correct spot. and plug heater to the other one. If you connect thermistor to heater plug, since no power on heater plug, it will not burn thermistor, and you will not get temperature reading, in that case, plug thermistor to the other plug and try again.

You may need to restart the printer to make it read temperature. And make sure you don't heat up the nozzle until you are confident you get thermistor in right plug.


He was asking which is for FAN and which is for Thermistor. Those two plugs are identical while the heater is larger and different. If he plugs the thermistor into the FAN port it will burn out the thermistor and possibly the MOSFET controlling the fan.

His best option is to do what you said but use the fan. If the fan runs it is in the right port. If it does not then that port is the thermistor port.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

4 Reply by yizhou.he (edited by yizhou.he 2018-12-13 17:21:54)

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Re: Nozzle circuit board connector order

ah, that's different version PCB, top is fan, bottom is thermistor.

No, plug thermistor to fan port will not burn anything, it is a 100k ohm temperature sensitive resistor (about 40-100 kohm near room temperature), the amps going through is a lot lower than plug a fan on.

(Da Vinci 1.0, Jr. 1.0 RAMPS, miniMaker) X4, (Creality CR-10S, CR-10 mini, Ender-3) X4, Anycubic MEGA X4, Anycubic Chrion X1, ADMILAB Gantry X2 (MonoPrice Maker Select V2, Plus, Ultimate)X4--Select mini X1, Anycubic photon X4, Wanhao duplicate D7 X1.
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5 Reply by volvodr66

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Re: Nozzle circuit board connector order

yizhou.he wrote:

ah, that's different version PCB, top is fan, bottom is thermistor.

No, plug thermistor to fan port will not burn anything, it is a 100k ohm temperature sensitive resistor (about 40-100 kohm near room temperature), the amps going through is a lot lower than plug a fan on.

I think you’re right. As far as I remember I’m pretty sure the fan is the top and the thermistor is the bottom.  Another quick question for you experts out there.  I read something about the temps being off 10 degrees or so when doing the E3D mod on the Davinci Pro 1.0 because of the differerent thermistor and some were just accounting for this when setting there temps.  I also read there was some type of “learning” process for the firmware to adjust it to the new thermistor so your temp readings would be correct.  Maybe this is only for different printers with different firmwares and the Davinci may not be capable of this process, I don’t know.  Anyone know anything about this?

6 Reply by carl_m1968

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Re: Nozzle circuit board connector order

volvodr66 wrote:
yizhou.he wrote:

ah, that's different version PCB, top is fan, bottom is thermistor.

No, plug thermistor to fan port will not burn anything, it is a 100k ohm temperature sensitive resistor (about 40-100 kohm near room temperature), the amps going through is a lot lower than plug a fan on.

I think you’re right. As far as I remember I’m pretty sure the fan is the top and the thermistor is the bottom.  Another quick question for you experts out there.  I read something about the temps being off 10 degrees or so when doing the E3D mod on the Davinci Pro 1.0 because of the differerent thermistor and some were just accounting for this when setting there temps.  I also read there was some type of “learning” process for the firmware to adjust it to the new thermistor so your temp readings would be correct.  Maybe this is only for different printers with different firmwares and the Davinci may not be capable of this process, I don’t know.  Anyone know anything about this?


PID tuning will not work on the Da Vinci stock board as there is no way to send the command to it to do the PID tuning. You will just have to adjust your temps accordingly.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

7 Reply by yizhou.he (edited by yizhou.he 2018-12-13 22:28:39)

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Re: Nozzle circuit board connector order

volvodr66 wrote:
yizhou.he wrote:

ah, that's different version PCB, top is fan, bottom is thermistor.

No, plug thermistor to fan port will not burn anything, it is a 100k ohm temperature sensitive resistor (about 40-100 kohm near room temperature), the amps going through is a lot lower than plug a fan on.

I think you’re right. As far as I remember I’m pretty sure the fan is the top and the thermistor is the bottom.  Another quick question for you experts out there.  I read something about the temps being off 10 degrees or so when doing the E3D mod on the Davinci Pro 1.0 because of the differerent thermistor and some were just accounting for this when setting there temps.  I also read there was some type of “learning” process for the firmware to adjust it to the new thermistor so your temp readings would be correct.  Maybe this is only for different printers with different firmwares and the Davinci may not be capable of this process, I don’t know.  Anyone know anything about this?

you don"t have to use e3d themistor, the easiest way is to keep the old themistor if you know how to do it. you can keep the old heating element too if they are still functional.

(Da Vinci 1.0, Jr. 1.0 RAMPS, miniMaker) X4, (Creality CR-10S, CR-10 mini, Ender-3) X4, Anycubic MEGA X4, Anycubic Chrion X1, ADMILAB Gantry X2 (MonoPrice Maker Select V2, Plus, Ultimate)X4--Select mini X1, Anycubic photon X4, Wanhao duplicate D7 X1.
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8 Reply by volvodr66

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Re: Nozzle circuit board connector order

yizhou.he wrote:
volvodr66 wrote:
yizhou.he wrote:

ah, that's different version PCB, top is fan, bottom is thermistor.

No, plug thermistor to fan port will not burn anything, it is a 100k ohm temperature sensitive resistor (about 40-100 kohm near room temperature), the amps going through is a lot lower than plug a fan on.

I think you’re right. As far as I remember I’m pretty sure the fan is the top and the thermistor is the bottom.  Another quick question for you experts out there.  I read something about the temps being off 10 degrees or so when doing the E3D mod on the Davinci Pro 1.0 because of the differerent thermistor and some were just accounting for this when setting there temps.  I also read there was some type of “learning” process for the firmware to adjust it to the new thermistor so your temp readings would be correct.  Maybe this is only for different printers with different firmwares and the Davinci may not be capable of this process, I don’t know.  Anyone know anything about this?

you don"t have to use e3d themistor, the easiest way is to keep the old themistor if you know how to do it. you can keep the old heating element too if they are still functional.

Can’t use the old thermistor.  The old one is the little bulb type and the new one that came with my E3D uses the cartridge type so there’s no place to install the old bulb type.  I am using the old heating element though so I don’t have to change connectors.

9 Reply by yizhou.he (edited by yizhou.he 2018-12-14 15:12:51)

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Re: Nozzle circuit board connector order

I thought E3D also use bulb type fixed by a screw. But I only have experience with E3D clones, maybe you got new authentic E3D that use different type of thermistor. If the thermistor is really causing the problem, you can get a different heat block that fit the bulb type themistor, which can be very cheap on amazon.

(Da Vinci 1.0, Jr. 1.0 RAMPS, miniMaker) X4, (Creality CR-10S, CR-10 mini, Ender-3) X4, Anycubic MEGA X4, Anycubic Chrion X1, ADMILAB Gantry X2 (MonoPrice Maker Select V2, Plus, Ultimate)X4--Select mini X1, Anycubic photon X4, Wanhao duplicate D7 X1.
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10 Reply by carl_m1968 (edited by carl_m1968 2018-12-14 15:31:18)

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Re: Nozzle circuit board connector order

yizhou.he wrote:

I thought E3D also use bulb type fixed by a screw. But I only have experience with E3D clones, maybe you got new authentic E3D that use different type of thermistor. If the thermistor is really causing the problem, you can get a different heat block that fit the bulb type themistor, which can be very cheap on amazon.


The heat block on the real E3D versus clones is part of the problem with clones. It is not machined well and does not allow the Heat brake and nozzle to mount flush with each other inside the block. The promotes leakage in extreme cases and jams in others.

https://e3d-online.com/thermistor-cartridge

this design allows for a more uniform measurement over a greater area of the heat block then just the one point where the tradition bulb is mounted. The bulb design fails in the fact it is not measuring the average block temp but just the temp of the spot it is mounted in which in some block designs is a considerable distance from the actual melt zone.

The cartridge design also eliminates the issue with shorted legs on the bulb type shorting to each other or the heat block itself. Although the cartridge is still a bulb, it is just in a copper casing.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
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11 Reply by yizhou.he

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Re: Nozzle circuit board connector order

carl_m1968 wrote:

The heat block on the real E3D versus clones is part of the problem with clones. It is not machined well and does not allow the Heat brake and nozzle to mount flush with each other inside the block. The promotes leakage in extreme cases and jams in others.

https://e3d-online.com/thermistor-cartridge

this design allows for a more uniform measurement over a greater area of the heat block then just the one point where the tradition bulb is mounted. The bulb design fails in the fact it is not measuring the average block temp but just the temp of the spot it is mounted in which in some block designs is a considerable distance from the actual melt zone.

The cartridge design also eliminates the issue with shorted legs on the bulb type shorting to each other or the heat block itself. Although the cartridge is still a bulb, it is just in a copper casing.

I have not been use E3D clones long enough to experience the potential leakage, jam, temperature issues you guys are talking about. The longest one I have been using is only 18 months. I do get some jamming with my other direct drive hotend on MonoPrice machine when filament run out on them.

I do see the benefit of these long cartridge type thermistor on other long heat block like MP ultimate, but I can not appropriate the benefit on small square E3D heat block. It do appears to be stronger if you need to take it in and out frequently to unjam the hotend, I don't really need to take it apart to unjam E3D clones.

(Da Vinci 1.0, Jr. 1.0 RAMPS, miniMaker) X4, (Creality CR-10S, CR-10 mini, Ender-3) X4, Anycubic MEGA X4, Anycubic Chrion X1, ADMILAB Gantry X2 (MonoPrice Maker Select V2, Plus, Ultimate)X4--Select mini X1, Anycubic photon X4, Wanhao duplicate D7 X1.
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12 Reply by carl_m1968 (edited by carl_m1968 2018-12-14 17:15:10)

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Re: Nozzle circuit board connector order

yizhou.he wrote:
carl_m1968 wrote:

The heat block on the real E3D versus clones is part of the problem with clones. It is not machined well and does not allow the Heat brake and nozzle to mount flush with each other inside the block. The promotes leakage in extreme cases and jams in others.

https://e3d-online.com/thermistor-cartridge

this design allows for a more uniform measurement over a greater area of the heat block then just the one point where the tradition bulb is mounted. The bulb design fails in the fact it is not measuring the average block temp but just the temp of the spot it is mounted in which in some block designs is a considerable distance from the actual melt zone.

The cartridge design also eliminates the issue with shorted legs on the bulb type shorting to each other or the heat block itself. Although the cartridge is still a bulb, it is just in a copper casing.

I have not been use E3D clones long enough to experience the potential leakage, jam, temperature issues you guys are talking about. The longest one I have been using is only 18 months. I do get some jamming with my other direct drive hotend on MonoPrice machine when filament run out on them.

I do see the benefit of these long cartridge type thermistor on other long heat block like MP ultimate, but I can not appropriate the benefit on small square E3D heat block. It do appears to be stronger if you need to take it in and out frequently to unjam the hotend, I don't really need to take it apart to unjam E3D clones.


Actually if you look at the Real E3D website you will see the cartridge length is the same as the width of the E3D heat block. So it is able the average the blocks over all temperature better.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

13 Reply by yizhou.he (edited by yizhou.he 2018-12-14 19:43:41)

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Re: Nozzle circuit board connector order

The benefit came from difference in heat response time between copper and aluminum over <5 mm in horizontal distance to predict nozzle temperature that is 10 mm lower? I mean it is definitely better in theory, but not significant. Use of copper heat block make more sense.

I do agree it is significantly stronger, 10 times stronger is under-estimated I think, and is cheap enough on aliexpress. I actually find copper heat block too, I might get some to test whether they make any difference if any of my E3D clone is dying.

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14 Reply by carl_m1968

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Re: Nozzle circuit board connector order

I stopped buying from Aliexpress when it was found it's CEO is a member of the Communist party. Living in America I will not support their agenda. Not to mention nearly everything there can be found on ebay or Amazon for a bit more cost but still worth it and better than supporting him.

On your topic though copper is going to add weight and that is going to require more tuning to account for that weight. Your acceleration and print speed will need to be adjusted again to prevent ringing.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

15 Reply by yizhou.he

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Re: Nozzle circuit board connector order

lol, you are over thinking about the communist party thing. In China, all good college students is a member of the communist party. It is kind of like you are in honer class in high school vs the rest of the losers.  It have nothing to do with your political believes, its not like you have another options, lol.

The cooper add weights to hotend do make sense. No wonder it is rare even in expensive hotend designs, I guess the additional weight out weight the benefit of fast temperature response.

(Da Vinci 1.0, Jr. 1.0 RAMPS, miniMaker) X4, (Creality CR-10S, CR-10 mini, Ender-3) X4, Anycubic MEGA X4, Anycubic Chrion X1, ADMILAB Gantry X2 (MonoPrice Maker Select V2, Plus, Ultimate)X4--Select mini X1, Anycubic photon X4, Wanhao duplicate D7 X1.
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