1 Topic by scobo

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Topic: E3D and ABS delamination

Aaaaargh !!!!
Just when I thought I had this E3D Lite upgrade nailed, I'm now seeing some delamination with ABS.
Ok, it's not drastic but small gaps in the layers are appearing in the corners when I print something over about 2cm in height. Never had this with the stock extruder.
Tried extruder temps between 210 and 240, extrusion multiplier from 1.0 to 1.2, extrusion width from 0.48 to 0.55 and the doors both open and closed but nothing is making much of a difference.
Any suggestions folks ?

Davinci 1.0 with repetier firmware & E3D V6 Lite
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2 Reply by carl_m1968

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Re: E3D and ABS delamination

Try a layer fan. They work with ABS as well..

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3 Reply by wardjr

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Re: E3D and ABS delamination

What kind of extrusion widths do you have set in your slice profile?

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4 Reply by mark.burton

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Re: E3D and ABS delamination

I haven't had a problem with delamination, with the e3d.
do you have a picture of what's happening.

5 Reply by scobo (edited by scobo 2015-12-10 09:02:48)

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Re: E3D and ABS delamination

Tried extrusion widths from 0.48 to 0.55mm.
Carl, would a layer fan not further prevent the layers from bonding properly and make it worse ?
It only seems to affect the corners in a few places ......

http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac28/scobodon/10d6e0839cc35891de023f5f174f1313_zpshrr2ok3b.jpg

Davinci 1.0 with repetier firmware & E3D V6 Lite
Anycubic Photon DLP printer, Einscan-S 3D scanner
Simplify3d, 123D Design, Meshmixer
http://www.thingiverse.com/scobo/designs

6 Reply by carl_m1968

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Re: E3D and ABS delamination

Its not a bonding issue. Its an uneven cooling issue. The layer fan will promote even cooling between layers so the cooler lower layers don't pull away from the hotter upper layers.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

7 Reply by scobo

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Re: E3D and ABS delamination

Cheers Carl, I see where you're coming from now.

Davinci 1.0 with repetier firmware & E3D V6 Lite
Anycubic Photon DLP printer, Einscan-S 3D scanner
Simplify3d, 123D Design, Meshmixer
http://www.thingiverse.com/scobo/designs

8 Reply by scobo (edited by scobo 2015-12-10 12:31:39)

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Re: E3D and ABS delamination

Ok, I seem to have finally fixed it with a combination of the following ......

Extruder temp 235°C
Extrusion width 0.55mm
Extruder mulitiplier 1.2mm

No sign of delamination at all now.

Davinci 1.0 with repetier firmware & E3D V6 Lite
Anycubic Photon DLP printer, Einscan-S 3D scanner
Simplify3d, 123D Design, Meshmixer
http://www.thingiverse.com/scobo/designs

9 Reply by evanalmighty

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Re: E3D and ABS delamination

Personally I think your extrusion width is too high. That explains why you have to increase your extrusion multiplier to 1.2.  Ideally .48 should be your max extrusion width (nozzle size * 120%).  For ABS I just leave extrusion width the same as my nozzle width and set multiplier to .95 or so.

10 Reply by scobo

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Re: E3D and ABS delamination

evanalmighty wrote:

Personally I think your extrusion width is too high. That explains why you have to increase your extrusion multiplier to 1.2.  Ideally .48 should be your max extrusion width (nozzle size * 120%).  For ABS I just leave extrusion width the same as my nozzle width and set multiplier to .95 or so.

I would tend to agree with you there.
I was using 0.48mm extrusion width and a multiplier of 1.05 but for some reason, I couldn't get ABS to print well after upgrading to an E3D Lite.
Having said that, I've only tried a spool of gray ABS so far. Maybe something to do with that particular spool ??

Davinci 1.0 with repetier firmware & E3D V6 Lite
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http://www.thingiverse.com/scobo/designs

11 Reply by evanalmighty

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Re: E3D and ABS delamination

Grey is more susceptible to this kind of problems because of the amount/type of filler/additive to make that color.

12 Reply by wardjr

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Re: E3D and ABS delamination

Keep in mind that extrusion width is the tool path.  Decrease that tool path and it takes less extrusion too bond to the path next to it.  I agree that this is mostly an uneven cooling issue.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
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Thanks to all for your contributions

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13 Reply by mark.burton

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Re: E3D and ABS delamination

I have currently my extrusion width set to .40 set any higher then that and I ran into quality issues.  I wasn't delaminating but the infill and outer perimeter's degraded in quality, and I lost structural strength between laminations . I have a multiplier of 1

I did have it set to .48 for a while but and then tried .45 and then stepped down until I couldn't see any improvement. while there isn't much visual difference between .4 and .45 the top surface is slightly smoother at .40 then .45, and layer bonding does seam to be better as its harder to intentionally break the layers.

14 Reply by ggunners

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Re: E3D and ABS delamination

One other thing to be aware of is the total amount of material in the corners. I have seen some designs with an outside radius but not an inside radius on the corners. This makes the inside point in the corner very thin.

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