<![CDATA[SoliForum - 3D Printing Community — OOOhh my.]]> 2019-11-07T14:34:35Z PunBB https://www.soliforum.com/topic/18083/ooohh-my/ <![CDATA[Re: OOOhh my.]]> I don't normally bump old threads but this time I have a good reason.

If you just read the beginning of this thread you'll know that I was struggling with first layer issues. Specifically I was getting elephants foot as well as over/under extrusion issues. Here is what I've learned.

First of all, calibrating those e steps is crucial. If you ask for 100mm you damn sure better be getting 100mm.
Second of all, bed leveling is crucial. Find yourself a bed level test print or something and if need be get an upgraded print surface and use hairspray or glue stick if your prints refuse to lay quietly.

FINALLY, YOU MUST COMPENSATE FOR BACKLASH!
All caps, you say? Well, yes, I'm yelling this part.

With the Solidoodle Workbench, I had .50mm of slack in the Z axis. What this means is that when then printer moves in to make its first print it raises the bed to meet the nozzle and all is right with the world. The first layer will print fine if you've done the above steps. HOWEVER, when the second layer hits, the printer will drop the bed .2mm (or whatever you have it set to) but in reality IT WILL BE USING UP THAT .5MM OF SLACK! This means for the 2nd, and 3rd later the bed won't move down AT ALL! The 4th layer will see a .1mm movement and from then on all is corrrect.

MY FIX: Custom Start G-code (although anti-backlash nuts or other solutions will also work)

G28 ;Home
G1 Z10.0 F6000 ;Move the platform down 10mm
;Prime the extruder
G92 E0
G1 F200 E3
G92 E0
G1 X30 Y30 Z0 ;I put this here to bring the bed back down to Z0 and dodge the clip holding the bed on.
G1 Z0.50 ;backlash compensation
G92 Z0 ;reset Z to "0"

Regards,
ESOCHI

]]> https://www.soliforum.com/user/21886/ 2019-11-07T14:34:35Z https://www.soliforum.com/post/151788/#p151788 <![CDATA[Re: OOOhh my.]]> Congrats on getting it up and running!

]]> https://www.soliforum.com/user/10399/ 2019-06-19T23:03:40Z https://www.soliforum.com/post/150706/#p150706 <![CDATA[Re: OOOhh my.]]> if the nozzles are close then just adjust one with some silicon carbide paper.

]]> https://www.soliforum.com/user/6775/ 2019-06-19T21:58:04Z https://www.soliforum.com/post/150705/#p150705 <![CDATA[Re: OOOhh my.]]> Alright folks, I've been quiet for a while but don't think that means I'm not progressing!

Heartless, I've followed both links and made sure everything was on point. Definitely needed to do that.

The second head IS just a tiny bit lower than the first, and I'll probably either see if I can use that one as default or adjust it up a bit.

I'm getting better at changing the EEPROM and dealing with bed leveling.
I've also simplified the start G-code and added an anchor to deal with the PLA leaking out. Seems to work better than just a skirt.
I'm trying to get away from the auto-bed-level feature and just run with manual leveling as needed.

Thank you to everyone who helped out! I greatly appreciate it!

I just wrapped up my first big print and I have to say, I'm quite happy with the results!

Imgur Link: Solidoodle Workbench Progress!

Regards,
ESOCHI

]]> https://www.soliforum.com/user/21886/ 2019-06-19T20:48:31Z https://www.soliforum.com/post/150703/#p150703 <![CDATA[Re: OOOhh my.]]> ESOCHI wrote:

Thanks for all the feedback! I won't be testing today but I will link y'all to pictures from my last few rounds.

Noteworthy point, if the bottom layer extrudes anything higher than the lvl it moves at my second extruder will bump it and mess stuff up. Hence the small 1cm cubes I'm testing with.

Regards,
ESOCHI

sounds like the second head is lower than the first one. that will need to be corrected before you go much further.
for that, knowack can probably provide more help than I can - none of mine are dual head machines.

]]> https://www.soliforum.com/user/10399/ 2019-06-11T23:44:56Z https://www.soliforum.com/post/150635/#p150635 <![CDATA[Re: OOOhh my.]]> Thanks for all the feedback! I won't be testing today but I will link y'all to pictures from my last few rounds.

Noteworthy point, if the bottom layer extrudes anything higher than the lvl it moves at my second extruder will bump it and mess stuff up. Hence the small 1cm cubes I'm testing with.

Imgur Link

Regards,
ESOCHI

]]> https://www.soliforum.com/user/21886/ 2019-06-11T14:59:08Z https://www.soliforum.com/post/150634/#p150634 <![CDATA[Re: OOOhh my.]]> ok, STOP. You are getting WAY ahead of yourself here.

Time to step back and get back to the basics.

you NEED to MANUALLY adjust the bed level to at least get it close to where it needs to be before any amount of bed probing & g-code tweaking will actually help. Currently your bed is WAY too close to the nozzles.
There are screws that adjust the bed height and where Z stop is engaged, USE THEM to properly adjust the bed level to the point that a piece of paper just barely slips under the nozzle(s) anywhere on the bed.

To calibrate the feed rate, you do NOT need to touch any screws - unless something is loose... and yes, it is possible to do on ANY printer. Some are easier than others, and an SD of any model should not be that difficult.
calibrating the feed rate means when you ask the machine to feed 100mms of filament into the hot end, it feeds EXACTLY 100mms of filament into the hotend. Not 103, not 97 - 100, period.

take a read through these..
https://northwoods3d.weebly.com/blog/fi … ion-part-1
https://northwoods3d.weebly.com/blog/-f … coming-out

And yes, you should be able to accomplish the same things with Cura. Maybe not in the exact same way as with Slic3r, but you should be able to figure out the equivalent settings.

calibrating the flow rate is another step that should be taken before you go messing around with g-code to tweak all sorts of things.

Like many here, I have multiple printers -my collection includes three Solidoodle 4s, a Folgertech FT-5 (large format kit) and a PrintIt Industries Horizon. Out of all of these, only the Horizon has any sort of auto bed leveling on it - and is completely different than most "auto leveling" setups.

the ONLY start g-code I use is the G28 command - that is it.
I do not use all this fancy crap that is totally unnecessary. Don't need it, don't want it.
I see no reason to make things more complicated when simple works just fine.

Bed leveling is done manually - when I need to.. which is maybe once a month or so. Granted, it took a little while to get to this point - bed leveling used to be a daily thing, then weekly - now it is when I feel it needs it - which is not that often since it has been dialed in well.

Learning to do things manually and do them correctly will get you a whole lot further in the long run. Once you have the manual procedures down, then, and only then, should you play with the "fancy" stuff. If you don't have things set up correctly to start with, the probe does you absolutely no good.

]]> https://www.soliforum.com/user/10399/ 2019-06-11T00:43:29Z https://www.soliforum.com/post/150631/#p150631 <![CDATA[Re: OOOhh my.]]> You should not need to modify the flow rate for the first layer only. The reason most people first layer looks fatter than the rest is because it is squished to half the size of the regular layers. This is done by the bed leveling or the offset in your case since the bed cannot be leveled manually. The distance between the nozzle and the bed should ideally be half of your desire layer height. So if your layer is at to .2 the you need gap of .1 or .15 at the most between the bed and nozzle.

]]> https://www.soliforum.com/user/7731/ 2019-06-10T19:38:31Z https://www.soliforum.com/post/150630/#p150630 <![CDATA[Re: OOOhh my.]]> You're absolutely right about the red line. I have that fixed from within the config now, and I'm encountering one final demon.

That overextrusion you mentioned? Yeah its totally a thing. But ONLY on the first layer. Everything else prints quite nicely.

I've done what must be a dozen or so tests today, and I'm still searching but coming to the conclusion that my version of Cura doesn't have the setting to modify JUST the first layer's flow or feedrate. It does have an overlap setting, but that just changes the distance between lines.

Switching to Slic3r and starting from scratch.

]]> https://www.soliforum.com/user/21886/ 2019-06-10T19:34:22Z https://www.soliforum.com/post/150628/#p150628 <![CDATA[Re: OOOhh my.]]> ESOCHI wrote:

It's Monday and I'm back in the office for another few rounds!

2cm cube printed with correct measurements except Z was 1mm off, due to the first few layers not leaving the bed. After it started lifting everything was perfectly dialed in.

Carl, I'm in agreeance that a manual calibration of the extruder would be ideal. I have no clue if that can even be done on the Workbench, as the screw I assume would be a setscrew didn't allow the extruder to move. I'm searching for help on that but haven't found anything yet. Maybe knowack would know as they have swapped parts on theirs.

I'm getting much more used to messing with G-code now, and I get what you meant by "Start Gcode"

I had just given you the first 150 lines but I'm now editing and saving and testing the actual "start" section within the Cura settings. I've been trying to add a full mm to the Z absolute positioning, because it most definitely is that.

My feed rates and extrusion rates are 100% on point, the distance between layers is perfect, the temperatures are set nominally.

This thing is awesome aside from the last gremlin.

Allow me to re-post that start code and show what I've been trying. I didn't do all of these at once, but rather 1 by 1

; Default start code
G28 ; Home extruder
G1 Z15 F{Z_TRAVEL_SPEED}
M107 ; Turn off fan

G28 X0 Y0 ;home X and Y
G29 ;probe bed
G1 Z+/-1 F200 ; I want to add this somewhere so that it changes the absolute coord to what I need
G90; set absolute coordinates
G92 E0; reset extruder distance
G1 Z4 F300 ;move platform down 5mm EDITED TO 4 no difference here didn't work
G1 X145 Y145 F3000 ; move to back right corner

G1 Z1 F200 ; TESTING HERE RIGHT NOW
G90 ; Absolute positioning (redundant, do I need 2 G90s? this was originally here)
M82 ; Extruder in absolute mode
{IF_BED}M190 S{BED}
; Activate all used extruder
{IF_EXT0}M104 T0 S{TEMP0}
G92 E0 ; Reset extruder position
; Wait for all used extruders to reach temperature
{IF_EXT0}M109 T0 S{TEMP0}


Here is the issue I see.

;Generated with Cura_SteamEngine 15.01
; Default start code
G28 ; Home extruder
G1 Z15 F100
M107 ; Turn off fan
G90 ; Absolute positioning
M82 ; Extruder in absolute mode
M190 S20
; Activate all used extruder
M104 T0 S195
G92 E0 ; Reset extruder position
; Wait for all used extruders to reach temperature
M109 T0 S195
;Layer count: 100
;LAYER:0
M107

G28 X0 Y0 ;home X and Y
G29 ;probe bed
G90; set absolute coordinates
G92 E0; reset extruder distance
G1 Z5 F300 ;move platform down 5mm
G1 X145 Y145 F3000 ; move to back right corner

G0 F6600 X130.316 Y243.079 Z0.200
;TYPE:SKIRT
G1 F3000 X161.516 Y243.079 E1.03772
G1 X161.516 Y274.279 E2.07543
G1 X138.516 Y274.279 E2.84042
G1 X138.516 Y285.939 E3.22823
G1 X118.656 Y285.939 E3.88877
G1 X118.656 Y266.079 E4.54932

The part in red is the very beginning of your print where the skirt is formed. This line will move the extruder back to .2 no matter what your START gcode says. Instead of adding the offset to your START gcode, you need to add the offset there so that the nozzle moves to the position you want it to be in. You need to add or take a few away from that value.

If that is actually part of your  START gcode then it is where you need to be making the changes at. If it is not then you need to see what is generating this value and change it or else you will have to manually edit each file before your send it to the printer.

]]> https://www.soliforum.com/user/7731/ 2019-06-10T15:53:59Z https://www.soliforum.com/post/150625/#p150625 <![CDATA[Re: OOOhh my.]]> It's Monday and I'm back in the office for another few rounds!

2cm cube printed with correct measurements except Z was 1mm off, due to the first few layers not leaving the bed. After it started lifting everything was perfectly dialed in.

Carl, I'm in agreeance that a manual calibration of the extruder would be ideal. I have no clue if that can even be done on the Workbench, as the screw I assume would be a setscrew didn't allow the extruder to move. I'm searching for help on that but haven't found anything yet. Maybe knowack would know as they have swapped parts on theirs.

I'm getting much more used to messing with G-code now, and I get what you meant by "Start Gcode"

I had just given you the first 150 lines but I'm now editing and saving and testing the actual "start" section within the Cura settings. I've been trying to add a full mm to the Z absolute positioning, because it most definitely is that.

My feed rates and extrusion rates are 100% on point, the distance between layers is perfect, the temperatures are set nominally.

This thing is awesome aside from the last gremlin.

Allow me to re-post that start code and show what I've been trying. I didn't do all of these at once, but rather 1 by 1

; Default start code
G28 ; Home extruder
G1 Z15 F{Z_TRAVEL_SPEED}
M107 ; Turn off fan

G28 X0 Y0 ;home X and Y
G29 ;probe bed
G1 Z+/-1 F200 ; I want to add this somewhere so that it changes the absolute coord to what I need
G90; set absolute coordinates
G92 E0; reset extruder distance
G1 Z4 F300 ;move platform down 5mm EDITED TO 4 no difference here didn't work
G1 X145 Y145 F3000 ; move to back right corner

G1 Z1 F200 ; TESTING HERE RIGHT NOW
G90 ; Absolute positioning (redundant, do I need 2 G90s? this was originally here)
M82 ; Extruder in absolute mode
{IF_BED}M190 S{BED}
; Activate all used extruder
{IF_EXT0}M104 T0 S{TEMP0}
G92 E0 ; Reset extruder position
; Wait for all used extruders to reach temperature
{IF_EXT0}M109 T0 S{TEMP0}

]]> https://www.soliforum.com/user/21886/ 2019-06-10T15:33:40Z https://www.soliforum.com/post/150623/#p150623 <![CDATA[Re: OOOhh my.]]> The fourth line in gcode is G1 Z15 F100 that will move the Z down to 15mm. Then when it executes your code it will move the Z back to 5mm. So is 5mm exactly where it needs to be? I would think you would need a decimal value to get it dialed in. If you Zeroed the bed properly then the 5mm move should put you 5mm above the bed and not at .2 like desired. I also where it probes the bed. That suggest an autoleveling system that could be overriding your move.

This line just below your bold text is going to make it move back to the .2 position where it actually should be for a first layer.

G0 F6600 X130.316 Y243.079 Z0.200

The desired thickness for a first layer is .2mm or less. Ideally it should half of your desired build layer thickness.

The correct process for zeroing and leveling a bed is to start a print. Kill the power once the head moves to the start position. Then moving the head around by hand use the adjusting screws so that a piece of paper just fits between the bed and nozzle with slight friction.

http://www.soliforum.com/topic/8408/bed … beginners/

]]> https://www.soliforum.com/user/7731/ 2019-06-05T18:31:45Z https://www.soliforum.com/post/150585/#p150585 <![CDATA[Re: OOOhh my.]]> Bold I've added. Printing a cube now.


;Generated with Cura_SteamEngine 15.01
; Default start code
G28 ; Home extruder
G1 Z15 F100
M107 ; Turn off fan
G90 ; Absolute positioning
M82 ; Extruder in absolute mode
M190 S20
; Activate all used extruder
M104 T0 S195
G92 E0 ; Reset extruder position
; Wait for all used extruders to reach temperature
M109 T0 S195
;Layer count: 100
;LAYER:0
M107

G28 X0 Y0 ;home X and Y
G29 ;probe bed
G90; set absolute coordinates
G92 E0; reset extruder distance
G1 Z5 F300 ;move platform down 5mm
G1 X145 Y145 F3000 ; move to back right corner

G0 F6600 X130.316 Y243.079 Z0.200
;TYPE:SKIRT
G1 F3000 X161.516 Y243.079 E1.03772
G1 X161.516 Y274.279 E2.07543
G1 X138.516 Y274.279 E2.84042
G1 X138.516 Y285.939 E3.22823
G1 X118.656 Y285.939 E3.88877
G1 X118.656 Y266.079 E4.54932
G1 X130.316 Y266.079 E4.93713
G1 X130.316 Y243.079 E5.70212
G0 F6600 X130.716 Y243.479
G1 F3000 X161.116 Y243.479 E6.71323
G1 X161.116 Y273.879 E7.72433
G1 X138.116 Y273.879 E8.48932
G1 X138.116 Y285.539 E8.87713
G1 X119.056 Y285.539 E9.51107
G1 X119.056 Y266.479 E10.14501
G1 X130.716 Y266.479 E10.53282
G1 X130.716 Y243.479 E11.29780
G1 F2400 E7.29780
G0 F6600 X136.516 Y249.279
;TYPE:WALL-INNER
G1 F2400 E11.29780
G1 F3000 X155.316 Y249.279 E11.92309
G1 X155.316 Y268.079 E12.54838
G1 X136.516 Y268.079 E13.17367
G1 X136.516 Y249.279 E13.79896
G0 F6600 X142.455 Y255.090
G1 F3000 X142.455 Y257.026 E13.86336
G1 X145.715 Y261.042 E14.03540
G1 X142.303 Y261.042 E14.14888
G1 X142.303 Y263.448 E14.22891
G1 X149.319 Y263.448 E14.46226
G1 X149.319 Y261.332 E14.53264
G1 X146.217 Y257.501 E14.69659
G1 X148.894 Y257.501 E14.78563
G1 X148.894 Y255.090 E14.86582
G1 X142.455 Y255.090 E15.07998
G0 F6600 X142.855 Y255.490
;TYPE:WALL-OUTER
G1 F3000 X142.855 Y256.884 E15.12634
G1 X146.555 Y261.442 E15.32160
G1 X142.703 Y261.442 E15.44972
G1 X142.703 Y263.048 E15.50314
G1 X148.919 Y263.048 E15.70988
G1 X148.919 Y261.473 E15.76227
G1 X145.378 Y257.101 E15.94939
G1 X148.494 Y257.101 E16.05303
G1 X148.494 Y255.490 E16.10661
G1 X142.855 Y255.490 E16.29417
G0 F6600 X142.855 Y255.190
G0 X136.416 Y249.089
G0 X136.116 Y248.879
G1 F3000 X155.716 Y248.879 E16.94607
G1 X155.716 Y268.479 E17.59797
G1 X136.116 Y268.479 E18.24986
G1 X136.116 Y248.879 E18.90176
G0 F6600 X136.655 Y249.509
;TYPE:SKIN
G1 F2700 X142.315 Y255.169 E19.16799
G0 F6600 X142.660 Y254.948
G1 F2700 X137.129 Y249.418 E19.42813
G0 F6600 X137.695 Y249.418
G1 F2700 X143.225 Y254.948 E19.68824
G0 F6600 X143.791 Y254.948
G1 F2700 X138.261 Y249.418 E19.94836
G0 F6600 X138.826 Y249.418
G1 F2700 X144.357 Y254.948 E20.20850
G0 F6600 X144.922 Y254.948
G1 F2700 X139.392 Y249.418 E20.46861
G0 F6600 X139.958 Y249.418
G1 F2700 X145.488 Y254.948 E20.72872
G0 F6600 X146.054 Y254.948
G1 F2700 X140.524 Y249.418 E20.98884
G0 F6600 X141.089 Y249.418
G1 F2700 X146.620 Y254.948 E21.24898
G0 F6600 X147.185 Y254.948
G1 F2700 X141.655 Y249.418 E21.50909
G0 F6600 X142.221 Y249.418
G1 F2700 X147.751 Y254.948 E21.76920
G0 F6600 X148.317 Y254.948
G1 F2700 X142.786 Y249.418 E22.02934
G0 F6600 X143.352 Y249.418
G1 F2700 X148.882 Y254.948 E22.28946
G0 F6600 X149.034 Y255.100
G1 F2700 X155.175 Y261.242 E22.57833
G0 F6600 X155.175 Y261.807
G1 F2700 X149.034 Y255.665 E22.86721
G0 F6600 X149.034 Y256.231
G1 F2700 X155.175 Y262.373 E23.15609
G0 F6600 X155.175 Y262.939
G1 F2700 X149.034 Y256.797 E23.44497
G0 F6600 X149.034 Y257.362
G1 F2700 X155.175 Y263.504 E23.73384
G0 F6600 X155.175 Y264.070
G1 F2700 X148.746 Y257.640 E24.03627
G0 F6600 X148.180 Y257.640
G1 F2700 X155.175 Y264.636 E24.36531
G0 F6600 X155.175 Y265.201
G1 F2700 X147.614 Y257.640 E24.72096
G0 F6600 X147.049 Y257.640
G1 F2700 X155.175 Y265.767 E25.10321
G0 F6600 X155.175 Y266.333
G1 F2700 X146.632 Y257.789 E25.50507
G0 F6600 X149.307 Y261.336
G0 X149.260 Y263.389
G0 X142.362 Y263.389
G0 X142.362 Y261.101
G0 X143.855 Y258.972
G1 F2700 X136.655 Y251.772 E25.84373
G0 F6600 X136.655 Y252.338
G1 F2700 X145.218 Y260.901 E26.24651
G0 F6600 X144.652 Y260.901
G1 F2700 X136.655 Y252.903 E26.62269
G0 F6600 X136.655 Y253.469
G1 F2700 X144.087 Y260.901 E26.97227
G0 F6600 X143.521 Y260.901
G1 F2700 X136.655 Y254.035 E27.29522
G0 F6600 X136.655 Y254.600
G1 F2700 X142.955 Y260.901 E27.59158
G0 F6600 X142.390 Y260.901
G1 F2700 X136.655 Y255.166 E27.86133
G0 F6600 X136.655 Y255.732
G1 F2700 X142.163 Y261.239 E28.12039
G0 F6600 X142.163 Y261.805
G1 F2700 X136.655 Y256.297 E28.37947

]]> https://www.soliforum.com/user/21886/ 2019-06-05T18:12:36Z https://www.soliforum.com/post/150584/#p150584 <![CDATA[Re: OOOhh my.]]> It could be using a different positioning system.  Some printers use relative positioning and some use absolute. If it is using relative then the command I gave you will not work as all moves are made a certain distance from the relative zero position.

While in absolute like most systems use you tell it to move X steps in a desired direction from the current position. Another issue is the placement of the offset in your start gcode. There maybe code after it that puts the head in a different position.

If you can, paste your start gcode here.

]]> https://www.soliforum.com/user/7731/ 2019-06-05T18:04:51Z https://www.soliforum.com/post/150583/#p150583 <![CDATA[Re: OOOhh my.]]> I'll try a cube next.

Yeah my print head doesn't lift at all for the first 5 layers. Only on the 6th does it start to go. That code worked for the first layer and then it dropped back down to ~0.0

So strange. It's like it's using an absolute value every time.

It's certainly adhering well! I just chipped some glass from my last print. Of course over-adhesion is another symptom of my issue, but I'm glad to be able to use just clean glass.

]]> https://www.soliforum.com/user/21886/ 2019-06-05T17:29:08Z https://www.soliforum.com/post/150582/#p150582