26

Re: better heated bed for SD4?

redbarret wrote:

Should I use a fiberglass mat after switching to a PCB bed, or no use for it then?

No real use as long as you have the cork...

SD2 - Stock - Enclosure - Heated Bed - Glass Plate - Auto Fire Extinguisher
Ord Bot Hadron - RAMPS 1.4 - Bulldog XL - E3D v6 - 10" x 10" PCB Heated Build w/SSR - Glass Plate
Thanks for All of Your Help!

27

Re: better heated bed for SD4?

I"m actually having some difficulty finding that 3-hole PCB i mentioned. I know I saw it *somewhere*. I'll keep looking.

28

Re: better heated bed for SD4?

Just to be sure, the cork sheet is needed to prevent the thermistor from squishing, right?

Solidoodle 4

29

Re: better heated bed for SD4?

redbarret wrote:

Just to be sure, the cork sheet is needed to prevent the thermistor from squishing, right?

The thermistor glass bead gets Kapton taped to the bottom of the PCB so, yes, the hole in the cork accommodates that bead if you are sandwiching the Glass bed, the PCB, the cork and the original Aluminum bed together.

The cork also insulates and directs the heat upward toward the glass so it won't be lost out the bottom...

SD2 - Stock - Enclosure - Heated Bed - Glass Plate - Auto Fire Extinguisher
Ord Bot Hadron - RAMPS 1.4 - Bulldog XL - E3D v6 - 10" x 10" PCB Heated Build w/SSR - Glass Plate
Thanks for All of Your Help!

30

Re: better heated bed for SD4?

jagowilson wrote:

I see no reason a PCB will not work on the Printrboard. Just make sure the output of those connectors matches the power requirements of the PCB. I'm sure both of these numbers are published.

I cant find this info.

Solidoodle 4

31

Re: better heated bed for SD4?

Actually, quite tricky to find. This was what I came up with:

http://reprap.org/wiki/PCB_Heatbed - this heatbed is very common, claimed resistance >=1 ohm (so <=12A @ 12V)
http://www.soliforum.com/topic/3530/pcb-heatbed-mk2/ - does seems to draw around 12A by a fairly reliable account
http://www.printrbottalk.com/forum/view … amp;t=8299 - recommended to keep under about 7A from the heat bed connector on the printrboard

I would highly recommend using an external solid state relay for any other heatbed (most are more powerful than the stock). Research why and how to do this, to make sure you select the right kind and install it correctly. smile

SD3. Mk2b + glass, heated enclosure, GT2 belts, direct drive y shaft, linear bearings, bowden-feed E3D v5 w/ 0.9° stepper
Smoothieboard via Octoprint on RPi

32 (edited by redbarret 2014-12-16 08:28:16)

Re: better heated bed for SD4?

Thanks for finding this info, I was told Printboard could handle this heatbed just fine in another forum, glad I was told this before ruining another one.

Is it maybe easier to switch to another board than use an SSR? I have no experience with the latter, and connecting the heatbed to the power supply separately doesn't seem very tidy. Well, that and I can't find much info on how to set up a relay either...

Solidoodle 4

33

Re: better heated bed for SD4?

I tried mine on the bench with a SD3 power supply and the numbers are:

11.75Volts
119Watts
10Amps`

Not exact numbers but almost smile

I will be powering my PCDB heater with a external SSR and PSU

34

Re: better heated bed for SD4?

I found out you can use a car horn relay (12V, 30A) which isn't hard to find anywhere and is pretty cheap which is nice.

No idea how to connect though.

Solidoodle 4

35

Re: better heated bed for SD4?

redbarret wrote:

I found out you can use a car horn relay (12V, 30A) which isn't hard to find anywhere and is pretty cheap which is nice.

No idea how to connect though.

Yes, you can...you hook up the current heater bed output wires to the coil on the relay, and then the power supply, PCB and switching side of the relay in series...

The downsides: 
- You MUST disable PID (enabling Bang-Bang) in the configuration.h or else you will be using PWM which will cycle that mechanical relay like crazy, eventually burn it out and most likely in the closed or ON position.  Not safe!!

- Bang-Bang control results in a slower heat control cycle which will likely cause a vertical squishing (banding) effect. 

At the end of the day, a lot less toil and trouble and way more safe to just use a SSR!

SD2 - Stock - Enclosure - Heated Bed - Glass Plate - Auto Fire Extinguisher
Ord Bot Hadron - RAMPS 1.4 - Bulldog XL - E3D v6 - 10" x 10" PCB Heated Build w/SSR - Glass Plate
Thanks for All of Your Help!

36

Re: better heated bed for SD4?

Thanks.

In other forums I was shown a car horn relay setup.
Wasn't told about all this.

And this was also mentioned

I would suggest you put a diode (reverse biased) across the coil connection of the relay. Otherwise, you can destroy the electronics driving the relay from the inductive kick of the coil when the coil is powered down.

Solidoodle 4

37

Re: better heated bed for SD4?

redbarret wrote:

Thanks.

In other forums I was shown a car horn relay setup.
Wasn't told about all this.

And this was also mentioned

I would suggest you put a diode (reverse biased) across the coil connection of the relay. Otherwise, you can destroy the electronics driving the relay from the inductive kick of the coil when the coil is powered down.

The diode can't hurt...I did not use one when I had a mechanical relay set up while waiting for my SSR; but then again, I was using a RAMPS board.  Someone else who has done this on a Sang can weigh in...

SD2 - Stock - Enclosure - Heated Bed - Glass Plate - Auto Fire Extinguisher
Ord Bot Hadron - RAMPS 1.4 - Bulldog XL - E3D v6 - 10" x 10" PCB Heated Build w/SSR - Glass Plate
Thanks for All of Your Help!

38

Re: better heated bed for SD4?

So that doesnt happen with SSR?

Solidoodle 4

39

Re: better heated bed for SD4?

IronMan wrote:
redbarret wrote:

Thanks.

In other forums I was shown a car horn relay setup.
Wasn't told about all this.

And this was also mentioned

I would suggest you put a diode (reverse biased) across the coil connection of the relay. Otherwise, you can destroy the electronics driving the relay from the inductive kick of the coil when the coil is powered down.

The diode can't hurt...I did not use one when I had a mechanical relay set up while waiting for my SSR; but then again, I was using a RAMPS board.  Someone else who has done this on a Sang can weigh in...

No diode needed on the Sang but I can't speak for the PrinterBoard.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

40

Re: better heated bed for SD4?

redbarret wrote:

So that doesnt happen with SSR?

A Solid State Relay generally uses an LED as the signaling circuit (versus an electromagnetic coil in an automotive relay) which does not generate an inductive load...

SD2 - Stock - Enclosure - Heated Bed - Glass Plate - Auto Fire Extinguisher
Ord Bot Hadron - RAMPS 1.4 - Bulldog XL - E3D v6 - 10" x 10" PCB Heated Build w/SSR - Glass Plate
Thanks for All of Your Help!

41

Re: better heated bed for SD4?

Got it. So how to connect all this to the motherboard?

Solidoodle 4

42

Re: better heated bed for SD4?

redbarret wrote:

Got it. So how to connect all this to the motherboard?

I'm afraid I can't describe anything different than what has already been communicated collectively earlier in this very topic...

If I had a printrboard with a PCB bed heater installed, I would be happy to provide a photo, but I do not...If you need a wiring diagram, then google the printrboard & PCB and research the images.

SD2 - Stock - Enclosure - Heated Bed - Glass Plate - Auto Fire Extinguisher
Ord Bot Hadron - RAMPS 1.4 - Bulldog XL - E3D v6 - 10" x 10" PCB Heated Build w/SSR - Glass Plate
Thanks for All of Your Help!

43

Re: better heated bed for SD4?

Go here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261629781877?_t … EBIDX%3AIT

Good delivery time, they send the directions on how to wire it up. Use the relay, according to solidoodle, the board is not set up to handle that much current for long, don't forget it's going to draw 10-14 amps, I forget the exact amount just know it's enough to fry your board.

SD3/SD4 Mods completed: glass bed, changed zrod to 5mm, slop nut, aluminum arm-originally wood, plexi-glass case, Z Wobble Preventer,  Lawsy Carriages, X\Y motor fans, control board fans, extruder cartridge heater, MK5, Esd Lite
Mods working on:Direct Y Drive
Remember.......All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be....Pink Floyd...Dark Side of the Moon.

44

Re: better heated bed for SD4?

Thanks.
But it only ships inside US.

Is SSR not something used for other things like electromagnetic relays are and can be found locally?

Solidoodle 4

45

Re: better heated bed for SD4?

Ok, I will then. smile

http://www.soliforum.com/misc.php?action=pun_attachment&amp;item=7107&amp;download=0

Post's attachments

printrboardrelay.png
printrboardrelay.png 634.04 kb, 1 downloads since 2014-12-17 

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SD3. Mk2b + glass, heated enclosure, GT2 belts, direct drive y shaft, linear bearings, bowden-feed E3D v5 w/ 0.9° stepper
Smoothieboard via Octoprint on RPi

46

Re: better heated bed for SD4?

@grob -  You are so nice smile

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

47 (edited by redbarret 2014-12-18 00:13:41)

Re: better heated bed for SD4?

grob wrote:

Ok, I will then.

grob, thank you very much!

This should be in the wiki or something.

Is that a 30A SSR in the photo?

Again, thanks.
if it was something else, I'd just try it and see if it works. But having burnt one printrboard I'm just paranoid with anything to do with the mobo...

Solidoodle 4

48

Re: better heated bed for SD4?

wardjr wrote:

@grob -  You are so nice smile

+1
I have been debating on this for some time and am a dumb dumb with electronics (see my sig) big_smile

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!

49

Re: better heated bed for SD4?

AZERATE wrote:
wardjr wrote:

@grob -  You are so nice smile

+1
I have been debating on this for some time and am a dumb dumb with electronics (see my sig) big_smile

You were debating whether or not grob is a nice guy? wink or whether or not to do this mod? Or whether or not to post a diagram how to do this mod?
big_smile big_smile big_smile

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

50

Re: better heated bed for SD4?

I keep planning a different approach, modifying the printrboard by soldering in some extra wires, but all I've done is plan - I haven't attempted it yet (though I may get around to it during the holidays when I'm also planning lots of other mods). Here's the long babbling web page I've accumulated on this so far:

http://home.comcast.net/~tomhorsley/har … eater.html