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Topic: It's all gone wrong !!

So no problems at all, then one day instead of laying down the ABS properly it was just congealing on the end of the extruder.

I read here to check calibration so did and it was out. So I calibrated it using the method in the manual, all the numbers are now good, around 245.

But it still clogs up at the extruder. It might start a print ok but soon ends up a horrible mess.

temperatures are ok, I reloaded filament ok.  Don't know whart else to do??

h e l p !!!!

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Re: It's all gone wrong !!

Does it clog or does the filament get bent inside the extruder assembly ?
If its bent, then feed rate is too high, slow down the feed rate to see.
ABS is very slow at print speeds, like 1/3 of PLA is safe speed.
Especially when printing 100% infill making an object solid this can occur.

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Re: It's all gone wrong !!

The ABS comes out the extruder and just get's mangled up as the carriage moves around.

it's not print speed, feed rate or any setting as such, it printed fine before and I didn't change anything.

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Re: It's all gone wrong !!

When it gets mingled up in the carriage, it means its trying to go in too fast or something blocking it.
Try pulling what ever is in there out. It must be jammed. I dont know the nozzle setup but worse case scenario you gotta take it apart and clean it.

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Re: It's all gone wrong !!

tonycstech wrote:

When it gets mingled up in the carriage, it means its trying to go in too fast or something blocking it.
Try pulling what ever is in there out. It must be jammed. I dont know the nozzle setup but worse case scenario you gotta take it apart and clean it.

+1

Depending on the hotend, you can heat up higher than extrusion temps for a few seconds then extrude.
This is only recommended if using an all metal hotend like an E3D.

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!

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Re: It's all gone wrong !!

Few questions I have that may be meaningless, but still worth asking. First is how clean is the glass? Second is what are you using on the glass to get the ABS to adhere (UHU stick, ABS slurry or whatever)? Last thing I'd normally ask is about bed level, but your post says that you handled that issue.

I'm also trying to understand what you mean about the print failing. Are you telling us that even if the first layer goes on OK, it's getting yanked loose and then following the print head around? Is the head itself cleaned of debris (old filament burned onto it) since it's about the size of a quarter and "very" close to the print surface. Anything stuck on it will knock into what your printing and will break it away from the glass.

Sidenote to AZERATE and tonycstech;

If he's using the DaVinci stock, he has no control over print temperature or feed rate. XYZware and the printers firmware decide all that for you, you only get a few printing choices. The bottom side of the hotend is all metal, the rest is "metal enough" that any temp most other printers could use wouldn't hurt it. The fan on the hotend itself isn't for cooling the material extruded, but cools the top of the hotend / feed roller area and you can't control it.

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Re: It's all gone wrong !!

ok this sounds like a good place to ask my question... It's a reoccurring problem that simply doesn't make sense to me... I'll start a print and it will go along happily for an hour or two no problem, then all of a sudden there is a knocking noise in the extruder, and all heck goes nuts with the print. by that I mean what was a nice looking print suddenly resembles a birds next on top, it's quite laying down any logical pattern and just kinda spits globes and strands everywhere and anywhere.  there are other extruder related problems but I'd like to post them one at a time. I swear this machine acts possessed at times.

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Re: It's all gone wrong !!

My experience would tend to indicate that the problem is the heater in the extruder going cold. The header wires (they're the big fat red ones going into the extruder) clip into the main wiring harness at the top with a black clip. If you touch those wires while the extruder is hot, you'll notice that the clip gets quite hot too. My theory is that heat mucks around with the connection and the power to the heater gets lost. I also noticed that the problem is more severe when i'm doing prints on the frontmost extremity of the print bed... this pulls the wiring harness tight, and puts strain on the connector as well. Because these are basically dumb machines, the printer doesn't know that the heater has lost power so it's sending commands to the filament loader to keep on serving up more filament, which doesn't work because the head's gone cold. THAT's the knocking noise. My solution (so far) was to zip tie together the black connector that attaches the heater wires to the main harness. So far this has worked very well.

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Re: It's all gone wrong !!

I agree with boxcarmib on curt's issue. I was one of the victims of the poor connector choice that XYZ made, the hotend simply stopped heating. There are multiple threads on that issue already, the consensus seems to be that replacement with Deans plug connectors, solder it solid, or lock it down so it can't move and lose connection are your choices.

I still don't have a good answer for the OP's problem though.

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Re: It's all gone wrong !!

Thanks guys... Had a nice long chat with XYZ customer service last night... I think your advice is makes as much sense as theirs. from XYZ... I need to open the extruder up make sure there isn't and fill meant inside, then remove it and clean the gear wheels out... then maintenance between each print should include bed calibration, a good cleaning of the extruder head, probably need to use the piano wire thingy to make sure no internal clogs are forming, and I might want to experiment with other glues on the heated bed, try and find something stickier... ( on that issue ) been kinda having luck with Elmer's glue stick that changes color it doesn't stain the models any but going on purple does help you see what you got covered and what you missed. Also it helps you see when it's drying out. That was their last piece of advice, don't let the glue stay on the table to long before printing because of the heat involved it dries out really fast and is useless then. Yah I am just about certain this is Newbie Gibberish... but it might save somebody another 1am call if they see some of these things! of to get some zip ties now so I can cut open the harness and take the extruder out! BTW incase anyone cares they are beefing up their video tutorial section a lot all of a sudden. I was on their 2 days ago and thought I had seen them all, then on the call last night she mentioned 3 I hadn't seen, and all of a sudden they were there. so they are trying to get oiut of beta testing on the website at least!

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Re: It's all gone wrong !!

boxcarmib wrote:

My experience would tend to indicate that the problem is the heater in the extruder going cold. The header wires (they're the big fat red ones going into the extruder) clip into the main wiring harness at the top with a black clip. If you touch those wires while the extruder is hot, you'll notice that the clip gets quite hot too. My theory is that heat mucks around with the connection and the power to the heater gets lost. I also noticed that the problem is more severe when i'm doing prints on the frontmost extremity of the print bed... this pulls the wiring harness tight, and puts strain on the connector as well. Because these are basically dumb machines, the printer doesn't know that the heater has lost power so it's sending commands to the filament loader to keep on serving up more filament, which doesn't work because the head's gone cold. THAT's the knocking noise. My solution (so far) was to zip tie together the black connector that attaches the heater wires to the main harness. So far this has worked very well.

I may have the same problem, it'll be printing the key chain just fine and right towards the end all hell breaks loose. I'll hear several thuds during the print and every time I hear it the next layer is shifted over.

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Re: It's all gone wrong !!

In my experience there are TWO causes of a clunking noise followed by loss of registration. The first, as I mention previously is loss of heat to the extruder... because this can be momentary the printer can sometimes "recover" and continue on as if nothing happened (although it HAS happened because the alignment was thrown off by the clunking).
The second cause is only experienced by people using XYZ cartridges, where the filament gets stuck or pinched in the cartridge and the filament stepper motor isn't strong enough to continue pulling it out of the cartridge. Sometimes the reason for this is forgetting to remove the white plastic plug on the side of the cartridge... other times its just because the spool was packed poorly. The reason why the problem doesn't usually show up when you begin to print is that for the first layer anyway, the extruder is moving much slower and the stepper motor has to pull less strongly and less often for that first layer... however when the print speed ramps up for the 2nd and subsequent layers the filament stepper motor can no longer pull the filament out of the cartridge fast enough. Easy enough to check... you should be able to pull the filament out of the cartridge with just a little bit of effort... you should never have to tug at it for it to come out.

13 (edited by amaterov 2014-12-06 07:46:05)

Re: It's all gone wrong !!

boxcarmib wrote:

In my experience there are TWO causes of a clunking noise followed by loss of registration. The first, as I mention previously is loss of heat to the extruder... because this can be momentary the printer can sometimes "recover" and continue on as if nothing happened (although it HAS happened because the alignment was thrown off by the clunking).
The second cause is only experienced by people using XYZ cartridges, where the filament gets stuck or pinched in the cartridge and the filament stepper motor isn't strong enough to continue pulling it out of the cartridge. Sometimes the reason for this is forgetting to remove the white plastic plug on the side of the cartridge... other times its just because the spool was packed poorly. The reason why the problem doesn't usually show up when you begin to print is that for the first layer anyway, the extruder is moving much slower and the stepper motor has to pull less strongly and less often for that first layer... however when the print speed ramps up for the 2nd and subsequent layers the filament stepper motor can no longer pull the filament out of the cartridge fast enough. Easy enough to check... you should be able to pull the filament out of the cartridge with just a little bit of effort... you should never have to tug at it for it to come out.

I think its the cartridge :\ Several times the filament just came loose during the print, and the thuds I've heard earlier sound like they were coming from the back. Doing a slow print does not cause the same problem, however printing the key chain which seems to prints quite rapidly causes several thuds or loose filament all together. My original cartridge that came with the printer is almost out too, maybe that has something to do with it.

What OP describes seems to be the first cause you mentioned. I've checked the hot-end on mine to make sure the wires are all ok while cleaning the nozzle. From reading other posts, loosing heat isn't anything our of the ordinary although it seems to happen due to broken wires.

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Re: It's all gone wrong !!

It's important to note that the loss of heat is not usually due to BROKEN wires... the problem is the connector from the heater to the daVinci's wiring harness. The XYZ engineers' choice of connector was a abysmal choice for the job. The heat generated by the extruder travels up the connectors and ultimately warps the connector so that it no longer makes proper contact. When the problem initially presents itself its hard to track down because the connector cools and the contacts return to their original position. Over time however, the expansion and contraction ultimately degrades the connector until it stops working all together.
A little search in this and other forums will provide you with lots of information on the recommendations for replacing the connector with a better solution.
Just trying to to warn you off thinking that if you inspect the wires and don't see a break that you may come to the conclusion that's there's nothing wrong.

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Re: It's all gone wrong !!

boxcarmib wrote:

It's important to note that the loss of heat is not usually due to BROKEN wires... the problem is the connector from the heater to the daVinci's wiring harness. The XYZ engineers' choice of connector was a abysmal choice for the job. The heat generated by the extruder travels up the connectors and ultimately warps the connector so that it no longer makes proper contact. When the problem initially presents itself its hard to track down because the connector cools and the contacts return to their original position. Over time however, the expansion and contraction ultimately degrades the connector until it stops working all together.
A little search in this and other forums will provide you with lots of information on the recommendations for replacing the connector with a better solution.
Just trying to to warn you off thinking that if you inspect the wires and don't see a break that you may come to the conclusion that's there's nothing wrong.

Makes sense, I just cleaned my nozzle with acetone and torch. Did a print at slow and normal speed, everything seems fine. However when I go and print the key chain came problem occurs. Thuds followed by erratic print and a birds nest or filament coming out of the extruder.