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Topic: Hot end isn't hot - How to repair

Otherwise known as how the solidoodle stole Sunday.

Actually this is a pretty fast repair, my print stopped printing at about 10:30, and I was printing again by 1, certainly faster than waiting for a new hot end...


Anyway... here is the process, I thought I'd document the process as the only other hot end pictures I can find on here are a resistor type, (in the hot to clear blocks thread) there is also mention of a 10Ohm resistor, and my machine appears to be different.


Ok.
First, how to determine if your hot end isn't hot:

The first you'll probably notice that your extruder is in trouble is that you'll start getting a message appear saying "prevent cold extrusion" this is a limit built into the firmware, if the hot end temperature is below (or reported to be below) 170 degrees C the extruder won't function. that's because the ABS won't be melted, if you ran the extruder stepped at this temperature all that'd happen is the gear would stick, and wear a little grove into the filament, then it won't grip. then when the hot end does come up to temp, it won't be able to move the plastic, the plastic will spend too long inside the extruder hot end, then it'll burn and clog.

so you get the message that your hot end it's hot, have a look at the previous readings for temperature.
if the temperature has suddenly dropped from say 200 down to 0, then you should suspect the thermistor.
if the temperature has steadily declined, then you should suspect that the heater is broken.

Another quick and dirty way to test this would be to turn the heater off. monitor the temperature of the printer and apply an external heat source to the hot end, you should see the temperature rise. -if this happens you can confirm that the thermistor is ok, and it's the heater that's broken.

Having determined that your hot end is broken, you now need to figure out why.

Tools you'll need for this step is a multimeter.

start at the back of the machine,
look at the circuit board, at the bottom you should see two red connectors. you are interested in the one on the left hand side, (marked H in this picture).
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t166/daniel_rainbow/solidoodle/Electronics/IMG_1986.jpg

unplug that connector,
set your multimeter to read volts.
Tell the machine to turn the extruder on.
measure the voltage at the pins on the circuit board. you should get 12v.

if you don't get 12v, (and everything else in the machine is working), then you've got a problem with the main board.

If you do get 12v here, time to move on to the next step.

leave this cable unplugged, and unplug the hot end part of the extruder. (the red plug in the picture below)http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t166/daniel_rainbow/solidoodle/hotend/IMG_2024.jpg

now set your cable to measure resistance, (or continuity) and probe from the circuit board end of the cable to the hot end side of the cable. (you put the probe on one end of the cable, then you have a 50-50 chance of picking the right cable at the other end! so measure both.

there are a few possible out comes here.

Main board connector 1 - hot end connector a = 0 ohms AND
Main board connector 1 - hot end connector b = infinite ohms

This is good. it means that the wire you're measuring is intact and fine.
now check the other wire in the same way.

if the results appear the same, (one wire no connection, the other wire 0 ohms resistance) then the main board to heater part of the set up is working fine.

other possible combinations are:
main board connector 1 - hot end connector a = 0ohms AND
main board connector 1 - hot end connector b = 0 ohms
this means that there is a short in the cable somewhere, perhaps it's been rubbing against the case and the insulation has worn and shorted.

and the last possible combination
main board connector 1 - hot end connector a = infinite ohms AND
main board connector 1 - hot end connector b = infinite ohms

these past two scenarios mean that you need a new cable to go between the main board and the heater.


Assuming that your main board is fine, and your cable is fine.
now check your heater element.

leaving your multimeter on ohms put one probe on each wire.

the hopeful result should be to read a low resistance. elsewhere on this forum, the figure is listed as ten ohms, however, it may also be 6 ohms. (depends on what you have)

anything much less than 6 ohms, implies that there is a short. anything much greater than ten ohm, (like the 16,000 Million ohms mine read) implies a broken wire somewhere.

if you have a broken heater, then you have two courses of action.
buy a new one, or fix your existing one.

fixing it is actually easier than you might imagine.

tools you will need.
A 2.5 mm hex wrench.
a soldering iron + solder
a craft knife/exacto knife
a roll of 1/4" (6mm) Kapton tape.
scissors (for cutting the tape)
1 adjustable spanner (or whatever size your nozzle is)
1 plumbers wrench, (those adjustable pliers type things)
1 length of nichrome wire.

the stock solidoodle uses AWG 31, (however you can change this for whatever you want).
(indeed I'm actually going to recommend changing this -I'll say why later -there are pro's and cons.


So,
Step 1.
cut the filament,
you already have the heater unplugged, now unplug the thermistor (blue) connector. the hot end has now been freed from it's ties.
Step 2
take the extruder assembly from the X carriage, (undo the two hex nuts from the read that go through the X carriage and emerge at two m3 bolts right near to the plastic (peek) part of the hot end.
Step 3
Take the extruder assembly, (the clear plastic part) off of the stepped motor, (the four hex bolts that are equally spaced around the motor.
Step 4 (you require some space here - unless you've taken the extruder apart before plenty of times and know how it goes back together)
Remove the bolt that secures the spring at the top.
place the bolt, small washer, spring, small washer and large washer in a neat row. (so you remember the order that they came apart in.
Next remove the bolt that holds the tension arm in, (your extruder will now only have two bolts holding it together.
carefully remove the nuts from the ends of these bolts, (don't pull out the bolts!!)
now, turn the extruder over.
remove the back piece, put this down on a table, remove the next piece, put this next to it.
remove the two broken pieces, (you'll know what I mean when you do this) and put them next to this. and the bolt that holds the tensioner.
then the two front pieces.

(methodical dissection, clear layout of how it came apart, also take photos if you like! will make it much easier to put this back together.)

you should now have the hot end free from the extruder assembly.
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t166/daniel_rainbow/solidoodle/hotend/IMG_2025.jpg

remove the black rubber insulators, (these should slide right off)
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t166/daniel_rainbow/solidoodle/hotend/IMG_2025.jpg

find the bulge in the nozzle bolt under the kapton, this is the thermistor.
rotate the hot end away from the thermistor and it's wires and use the craft knife to cut a slit in the kapton, then peel off the kapton and remove the thermistor.

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t166/daniel_rainbow/solidoodle/hotend/IMG_2027.jpg

Now use the plumbers vice pipe grips to GENTLY grip the peek plastic, and the spanner to remove the nozzle.
if you find that the peek undoes, but the nozzle does not, then remove the peek, grip the brass pipe (CAREFULLY) and undo the hot end, then replace the peek.

After taking off the nozzle you should find that you can remove the heater element using your fingers.

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t166/daniel_rainbow/solidoodle/hotend/IMG_2028.jpg

In order to get to the wires you need to remove the clay that keeps the wires in place.
I used the pipe grips to gently squeeze the clay, this caused it to crumble.
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t166/daniel_rainbow/solidoodle/hotend/IMG_2028.jpg

you'll be left with a threaded brass part, with furry wire wrapped around it, (the fur is the insulation)
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t166/daniel_rainbow/solidoodle/hotend/IMG_2029.jpg

now check the resistance of the wire, not from where the wires from the plug attach, but the actual resistance of the wire:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t166/daniel_rainbow/solidoodle/hotend/IMG_2030.jpg

you see that the wire is intact, and measures 6 Ohms.
The fact that the wire is intact is a pretty good thing, and led me to believe that the best course of action was to re-wrap the heater barrel.

First, you'll see that the heater barrel is made of brass, (conductive) also that removing the clay has lead to a lot of that furry insulation material going AWOL. so wrap the barrel in Kapton.

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t166/daniel_rainbow/solidoodle/hotend/IMG_2032.jpg

then starting at the top, wrap the barrel round and round pushing the wire into the threads to hold them a set distance apart, after the first complete wrap, (well three wraps is what it takes to go top to bottom, add a layer of kapton tape.

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t166/daniel_rainbow/solidoodle/hotend/IMG_2033.jpg

then continue wrapping.

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t166/daniel_rainbow/solidoodle/hotend/IMG_2034.jpg

next solder the lead from your heater plug to the nichrome wire.

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t166/daniel_rainbow/solidoodle/hotend/IMG_2035.jpg

wrap the excess around the barrel and wrap in another layer of kapton tape.

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t166/daniel_rainbow/solidoodle/hotend/IMG_2036.jpg

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t166/daniel_rainbow/solidoodle/hotend/IMG_2037.jpg

now, before you put it all back together, test the heater to make sure that you read the correct resistance:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t166/daniel_rainbow/solidoodle/hotend/IMG_2038.jpg

reassemble the heater/barrel/nozzle.
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t166/daniel_rainbow/solidoodle/hotend/IMG_2039.jpg


then tape the thermistor in place:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t166/daniel_rainbow/solidoodle/hotend/IMG_2040.jpg

reattach the insulation:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t166/daniel_rainbow/solidoodle/hotend/IMG_2041.jpg

and test:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t166/daniel_rainbow/solidoodle/hotend/IMG_2042.jpg


unfortunately, when I tested, the hot end got to about 70 degrees and then the solder joint failed again.

I have a feeling this is because the nichrome is heating to 1400 degrees, and melting the solder connection, so to fix this, I've decided that the wire should be fixed mechanically as well as soldered.

basically the end of the wire should cross over, then fold back and wrap around itself, forming two loops, (basically a variation of a linesman splice.) clearly using wire in wraps is going to reduce the length in the heater, and reduce the resistance, increase the power etc. so I decided that I needed to replace the whole thing

SO...
I had a length of AWG28 nichrome wire.

First, measure a 6ohm length of wire, (using a multimeter, unwind the wire and measure resistance along its length until it reads 6 Ohm.

then add a few cm for creating your wraps in the connection.

start by attaching the nichrome to the green heater connection wires. (splicing them with a loop and several wraps) then also solder.
then wrap the wire around the barrel, until three wraps are complete, add a wrap of insulating kapton, and wrap with wire again, then kapton, then wire, and so on until you reach the end of the wire.

when you're done wrap in a few wraps of kapton.
test the resistance to see that it's 6ohms, then reassemble the hot end as above:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t166/daniel_rainbow/solidoodle/hotend/IMG_2045.jpg

I've left the joint poking out the top so that there is a gap between the solder and the heater.

(the nichrome wire heats up well past the point where solder melts, so the simple soldered lap joint, that is actually inside the clay just simply isn't good enough to last the test of time.)

finally test.
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t166/daniel_rainbow/solidoodle/hotend/IMG_2047.jpg

when testing increase the heat in small increments.

looking at this:
V = 12 R = 6 (so I = 2)
http://www.wiretron.com/nicrdat.html
gauge is 31.
heat in the nichrome = 1400 degrees C, (solder melts around 200)

my replacement heater actually runs cooler. (a mere 900 degrees C)
but there is more wire, (more heating mass), there is less to heat, (no clay = less to heat) so the time to heat to temperature is actually a lot shorter than the time to heat the stock nozzle.

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Re: Hot end isn't hot - How to repair

what a great write up ! I just ordered a new nozzle but when i swat the old one out, i will have to look at this and the old nozzle and see if its repairable and keep it as a spare. thanks !

3

Re: Hot end isn't hot - How to repair

Since the nozzle clogs occasionally, it would be nice if it could be removed without disassembling the entire hot end. It already has a hex head on it, too bad the brass fitting didn't have one as well. then you could place a wrench on each and remove the nozzle to clean it periodically in minutes.

SD2
E3D V6
MK5 V6

4

Re: Hot end isn't hot - How to repair

Well bummer ,,  had my solidoodle a week an the  heater just  went out !


TY for this post ,  checked it with a multimeter an looks like its a broken heating element sad

    solidoodle do they replace stuff ?   free ?

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Re: Hot end isn't hot - How to repair

Xtruded wrote:

solidoodle do they replace stuff ?   free ?

Sometimes they will do it for free, but it'll take forever. It's a problem well covered here on the forum.

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Re: Hot end isn't hot - How to repair

yeah last night when i posted i hadnt looked to hard about it yet,,       i believe i have repair parts now ive cooled off little myself an thought  about it , lol

7

Re: Hot end isn't hot - How to repair

Can we un-sticky this? We don't make hot-ends with nichrome anymore. If you guys want a good guide to diagnosing hot-end problems, Solidoodle can make it, but this one isn't all inclusive. There a variety of problems and solutions for hot-end issues.

That is why we recommend you speak directly with support.

Former Solidoodle employee, no longer associated with the company.

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Re: Hot end isn't hot - How to repair

yeah id love more infos on repairing it as its still broken , i  thought i had repair parts in my pile but i didnt !



  im to broke to try an mail support a broken resistor to prove its broken and the solidoodle was a gift and i really dont wanna tell the person who bought for me it broke either or get them involved in the issue .


    What id  really  like is repair info an also STL's so i can print off repair parts before it breaks again ! 

   Please release STL'S of the printed parts , please !

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Re: Hot end isn't hot - How to repair

Xtruded wrote:

yeah id love more infos on repairing it as its still broken , i  thought i had repair parts in my pile but i didnt !



  im to broke to try an mail support a broken resistor to prove its broken and the solidoodle was a gift and i really dont wanna tell the person who bought for me it broke either or get them involved in the issue .


    What id  really  like is repair info an also STL's so i can print off repair parts before it breaks again ! 

   Please release STL'S of the printed parts , please !

The hotend doesn't have any. You most likely have a dead resistor, or a broken heat core (if you still have nichrome heat core variant.)

Really, it would be best to work on it. You should be able to mail the part back to us in a small envelope for very cheap. If you still have the nichrome variant I would suggest you upgrade to the new heat block style resistor.

Former Solidoodle employee, no longer associated with the company.

10

Re: Hot end isn't hot - How to repair

The nichrome part is out of date, but the post is still a good guide for how to figure out where the problem is.

11

Re: Hot end isn't hot - How to repair

2 weeks and 2  days old. My  hotend failed tonight.I read all the above of how to test it but  being only 2 + weeks old it shouldn't fail that quick.Not a happy camper!

SD3, E3D hotend,linear bearing on x/y axis',pillow block bearing on y conneting rod, ball bearngs on front y axis, fan on y stepper motor.

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Re: Hot end isn't hot - How to repair

satman49 wrote:

2 weeks and 2  days old. My  hotend failed tonight.I read all the above of how to test it but  being only 2 + weeks old it shouldn't fail that quick.Not a happy camper!


I have similar problem too as well. I got Solidoodle 3  three weeks ago and hot end isn't hot. On the software, when I tried to warm up the heat extruder, the temperature drops to 20 degree.

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Re: Hot end isn't hot - How to repair

yeah, my fix has failed.

I'm in the process of creating a new new way for the solidoodle to steal a day of my time... (I will of course post a guide here). (cartridge heater)

To be honest I was pleased with the way my fix lasted, (three months is better than the 3 weeks the original part lasted) but without proper insulation and just relying on Kapton the nichrome burned through the Kapton and then shorted against itself, lowering the resistance/increasing the current and temperature so it'd burn through more tape, and start to kick in over current protection on the power supply randomly turning the machine off and on...

I had started to rebuild the hot end again using nichrome but this time using gum gum (exhaust gasket sealant), but this takes waaay to much time as the nichrome wraps around the nut part about 3 times, and it takes about a day for each layer of insulation to dry...


The trouble shooting part of the post is still valid, but I can't say that I'd recommend that anyone do the fix as performed in this post unless they can find insulated nichrome wire, (I can't find it anywhere!)

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Re: Hot end isn't hot - How to repair

Makergear carries insulated nichrome, but it's out of stock at the moment -http://www.makergear.com/products/plast … ment-parts

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Re: Hot end isn't hot - How to repair

It's been out of stock there for months!!

16 (edited by blazespinnaker 2013-04-06 23:46:00)

Re: Hot end isn't hot - How to repair

I sent this to support:

Hey guys,

Awesome printer!   I love it, unfortunately I suspect my heater is gone (it died 3 weeks after usage.   I didn't do much in the way of printing, either).

Here's an image attached.   I get 12 votes when I put the multimeter at 1 and 3 (do you know the proper names for them?) in the image attached and the heater is turned on.

What's the fastest way to get replacement parts?   Can I order 4 and 5 (the heater cores) from a third party?  Or does it have to be Solidoodle (I want it quickly).

A lot of people everywhere are reporting the hot end is dying.   It seems like a a fault of the design so I hope you folks can send me something soon.

Thanks for all your help smile

Post's attachments

extruder.png
extruder.png 853.54 kb, file has never been downloaded. 

You don't have the permssions to download the attachments of this post.

17 (edited by blazespinnaker 2013-04-07 19:52:01)

Re: Hot end isn't hot - How to repair

Reply:

Measure the resistance at "4" - you should see exposed leads. If you return the hot-end to us, we can get you a replacement. Otherwise it is available in our store.

Regards,
John

edit:   By 4 he means the exposed leads on either side of the block.  That would make sense...

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Re: Hot end isn't hot - How to repair

I haven't printed in a few weeks and today I decided to print some items.  The machine started to heat and got up to 200 degrees and extruded fine.   Then the temp started to drop off and would not reheat.  Okay, bad heating core, I have a spare.  Switched over to my spare hot end and started over.  Temp reached 200 degrees and started to print just fine.  Five mins later the spare hot end will not heat.  What are the chances of two heating cores going bad in the same 30 min window?  I checked the volts at the connector marked "H" (my machine it is marked "PT" but turns on and off with my extruder heat), the volts read 27.  I checked the volts at the extruder and I got the same reading of 27.  If it should be 12, is my machine pushing too much and that caused my heating cores to burn out?  If so how do I fix this issue?

SD2, Mac 10.8.3, Repetier 0.55

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Re: Hot end isn't hot - How to repair

Danny,
I didn't even see this when I had to unplug my barrel, but reading this now, I see that I was going in the right direction.  When I did, I had some issues with the clay cover flaking off and exposing some of the wire (not the nichrome).  I figured Kapton was good for what ails (and pretty cheap in comparison) and just wrapped the whole clay piece in Kapton.  Hopefully this slows the decay that seems to be plaguing some of the users.  It fired up just fine after I re-assembled.

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Re: Hot end isn't hot - How to repair

danny wrote:

yeah, my fix has failed.

I'm in the process of creating a new new way for the solidoodle to steal a day of my time... (I will of course post a guide here). (cartridge heater)

To be honest I was pleased with the way my fix lasted, (three months is better than the 3 weeks the original part lasted) but without proper insulation and just relying on Kapton the nichrome burned through the Kapton and then shorted against itself, lowering the resistance/increasing the current and temperature so it'd burn through more tape, and start to kick in over current protection on the power supply randomly turning the machine off and on...

I had started to rebuild the hot end again using nichrome but this time using gum gum (exhaust gasket sealant), but this takes waaay to much time as the nichrome wraps around the nut part about 3 times, and it takes about a day for each layer of insulation to dry...


The trouble shooting part of the post is still valid, but I can't say that I'd recommend that anyone do the fix as performed in this post unless they can find insulated nichrome wire, (I can't find it anywhere!)

In our experience, the resistors have been far more reliable. Once we found the correct resistor, failure rates changed overnight.

Former Solidoodle employee, no longer associated with the company.

21

Re: Hot end isn't hot - How to repair

solidoodlesupport wrote:

The hotend doesn't have any. You most likely have a dead resistor, or a broken heat core (if you still have nichrome heat core variant.)

Really, it would be best to work on it. You should be able to mail the part back to us in a small envelope for very cheap. If you still have the nichrome variant I would suggest you upgrade to the new heat block style resistor.


So does this include the new heat core?

http://store.solidoodle.com/index.php?r … duct_id=59

It mentions a ceramic heat core on it.

22

Re: Hot end isn't hot - How to repair

pretenda wrote:
solidoodlesupport wrote:

The hotend doesn't have any. You most likely have a dead resistor, or a broken heat core (if you still have nichrome heat core variant.)

Really, it would be best to work on it. You should be able to mail the part back to us in a small envelope for very cheap. If you still have the nichrome variant I would suggest you upgrade to the new heat block style resistor.


So does this include the new heat core?

http://store.solidoodle.com/index.php?r … duct_id=59

It mentions a ceramic heat core on it.

yes.

though quite why you'd replace a weak part that breaks less than a month after ownership with the same (presumably equally weak) part...

the best heater (in my opinion) is a heater block, (like the new heaters), but with a proper heater cartridge in it, not some cheap resistor that's over driven. and breaking in equally short time.