1 Topic by jlspea01

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Topic: Fan placement and Appropriate Temps for extrusion

I got my filastruder on Friday, assembled it and did my purge. That all went well.

Now I am trying to get in to "production mode" and wanted to ask about how to produce good filament.

First off, as I was doing my purge on a 3mm nozzle at 180 degrees (per the instructions), my filament was coming in between 3.2 and 3.3 mm. According to the forums, it seems that I should just dial up the heat until the filament is the proper diameter. First set of questions...
>> For ABS, what temp do most of you extrude at? What about for PLA?
>> Is it the same temp for 3mm as 1,75 or will I have to have a 1.75 temp and a 3mm temp?
>> I am guessing that if I use the osprintingllc filament that I will have one temp and if I use a different polymer from a different manufacturer, I would need to find the correct temp.
>> Do I have to adjust the temp for every masterbatch I add (like having to adjust printer temp when I use a different color)? Or is the temp tied to the pellets alone?

Secondly, I think I have to tinker with my fan placement. I was getting quite a bit of ramen during my purge and also had problems keeping my temperature consistent. Even if I set my temp at 200, I never really ran above 175... and autotuning didn't really seem to help much. So next set of questions...
>> How do I know if I have good fan placement?
>> I am considering getting an enclosure, will that help me with the fan placement and consistency? Or is the enclosure more or less decorative?
>> Is it normal for the temperature to not reach the set temperature? Or is this due to my fan placement or another issue?

Finally, I have the filawinder but I haven't finished wiring it. I noticed during my purge that every time I bumped my filament a little bit that I got a deformity.
>> For those of you who have the filawinder, how do you get the filament to go through the PTFE tubing without deforming? Or is not a problem?

Thank you for entertaining my n00b questions.

2 Reply by elmoret

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Re: Fan placement and Appropriate Temps for extrusion

Thanks for posting - I'm happy to help. The first few days of strudin' can be challenging, but once you're all set up it is a fire and forget type of deal.

ABS - 180-190C. PLA - 155-165C.
Same temperature as a starting point for both nozzle sizes, though you will dial them in to get the diameter you want.
Yes, different polymers have different extrusion temperatures. Generally all polymers in a particular family are close,though.
Usually you do not have to adjust temperature for masterbatch.

If you're having trouble hitting the temperature, the nozzle may not be adequately shrouded by the insulation. Sinc you're also oversize on filament diameter, try not using the fan at all. Fan placement doesn't matter much for ramen. Guide placement does - you need to replicated what I included in the instructions.
Enclosure is cosmetic only.
It is not normal for the temperature not to reach the set point (as long as the set point is below 210C). Most likely, you have not installed the insulation properly, or you're operating in Antarctica. Pictures?

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3 Reply by jlspea01

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Re: Fan placement and Appropriate Temps for extrusion

this is from last night... I will upload a better picture tonight that shows the nozzle more clearly. Ill also try re-wrapping my insulation tighter and if that doesn't work, I will disable the fan.

This was at the beginning of auto-tune cycle.

Any suggestions on placement of the guide (and fan) would be appreciated.

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4 Reply by elmoret

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Re: Fan placement and Appropriate Temps for extrusion

Extending those thermocouple terminals is potentially bad news, as you may have introduced cold junctions. Have you checked to be sure it is still reading correctly? What extrusion speeds are you seeing? Why did you extend those terminals?

Guide looks too far from the nozzle face. As per the instructions, the top of the copper guide is to be 1.4" from the nozzle face. That looks like it is around 2-2.5inches out. I can't tell if the insulation is even with the nozzle face, but it should be.

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5 Reply by jlspea01

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Re: Fan placement and Appropriate Temps for extrusion

I didn't realize that I could connect the thermocouple directly.... I didn't try. I will try that when I get home (It's just a simple solder).

I misread the docs on the placement. I thought it was telling me to place the fan that far.

Maybe I shouldn't assemble complex equipment on the day I get home from a ski trip wink

6 Reply by jlspea01

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Re: Fan placement and Appropriate Temps for extrusion

I went a little nuts with the insulation as you can see from the pictures. It is holding the temp much better. I also attached the thermocouple directly to the PID.

Temperature is much better.... I am running autotune now.

I moved the guide a lot closer and my ramen issue seems to be under control as well (but I have onl extruded about a meter so far).

Still playing with temps, but I appreciate the feedback.

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7 Reply by elmoret

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Re: Fan placement and Appropriate Temps for extrusion

That looks better (holy motion blur). If you still run into ramen, the base may be slightly too long. Just an inch can be the difference between ramen and no ramen.

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8 Reply by jlspea01

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Re: Fan placement and Appropriate Temps for extrusion

Under normal running conditions, how close to the set temperature should I expect the heater to run. The insulation really helped, but I am still seeing my temp range from 189.5-193.5 when I have my temp set to 192... and when I check my diameter, I am getting approx +/- .2 on some places.

Im thinking of either turning the fan off or moving it to the other side of the guide. Another option is to upgrade my insulation and try that. What would you suggest as next steps?

9 Reply by elmoret

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Re: Fan placement and Appropriate Temps for extrusion

Did you redo the autotune after changing the insulation/fan placement?

+/-0.2mm isn't horrible on 3mm filament, and it's about what I'd expect running that hot.

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10 Reply by jlspea01

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Re: Fan placement and Appropriate Temps for extrusion

Yes, I re-ran autotune.

I'll keep playing with the temp, fan and insulation. I see a lot of different approaches to insulation in some of the pictures so maybe I'll try those.

Thanks.

11 Reply by elmoret

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Re: Fan placement and Appropriate Temps for extrusion

It also looks like you're only 4 feet off the ground or so. Because 3mm filament is stiffer, you need to be 6-8 feet off the ground for best results, or use a FilaWinder. It needs to be able to fall completely unobstructed.

With 3mm filament and the right temperature/fan/height, you should be able to hold tolerances inside of +/-0.1mm.

I usually hold +/- 1C temperature wise.

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12 Reply by jlspea01

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Re: Fan placement and Appropriate Temps for extrusion

How many RPM should My auger be getting with my gearbox? I had to put my filastruder away for about a week and am still getting inconsistent size filament even with higher temps. I let the filastruder 'heat up' usually half an hour before turning on the motor.

It also sometimes makes a funny noise.

Do you want me to try to post a video tonight so you can see my rpm and maybe hear the noise?

Temp is more consistent now that I am better insulated. I used the guide from the Randolph accessory pack and my ramen issue is long gone. One I get my diameter issue solved, I am ready to do about 20 lbs of filament.

13 Reply by elmoret

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Re: Fan placement and Appropriate Temps for extrusion

Higher temps make diameter variance worse, not better...that why I said "with temps that high, that's about what I'd expect".

Nominal RPM depends on which motor you have. Post a photo and I'll let you know.

+/-0.1mm on 3mm at 190C is exactly what I'd expect. It is also what most commercial filament suppliers list as the nominal tolerance for 3mm.

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