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Topic: What's a modified SD3 worth?

I've got an SD3 with a lot of modifications and improvements, but also with at least one pending problem.

Specifications:

  • Manufactured in March 2013

  • Sanguinololu board, unmodified

  • Lawsy MK4 extruder mount

  • E3D extruder

  • 360W replacement power supply

  • Plexiglas enclosure

  • Plastic serving tray for heating lid

  • Two 40mm cooling fans mounted to cool the circuit board

  • Printed filament guide, cable guide, Z wobble hug nut, Z stop extender, thumb screws

  • Four glass print beds, though I bet those'd be too hard to ship

  • Also includes a spare print bed complete assembly

Problem:

  • Periodic y-axis skipping during prints.  Probably something most of you could fix easily.

I'd be interested in assessment of what this might be worth, what it might sell for.  How likely it could sell.

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Re: What's a modified SD3 worth?

No one's got any ideas on this?

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Re: What's a modified SD3 worth?

Probably $725. Those mods are +100, the fact it is used is -$100, and the y-axis skipping is -$75.

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Re: What's a modified SD3 worth?

Thanks.  If I could actually get that for it, that'd make getting a FlashForge within the year a more realistic possibility.  (Not that I've given up on the SD3, just trying to explore all my options.)

5 (edited by elmoret 2013-10-03 20:05:31)

Re: What's a modified SD3 worth?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Solidoodle-3-3D … 48587ca759

Of course, eBay takes like 12%.

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Re: What's a modified SD3 worth?

I will give you $300 for it with all the red neck mods you put on it, including the defective performance if you deliver it to my door, with the original parts on the side, and I can print a test part on it to my satisfaction. Don't fool your self, these things have all of $100 in parts in them and the only reason they sell for what they do now is because they are in early adopter hobbyist stage. This is not something you will get your money back out of. If HP could figure out how to sell you DMCA protected filament then you would get touch screen interface wireless internet connected 3D printers flooding the market from China for $99.99.

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Re: What's a modified SD3 worth?

1.) the CNC brake'ed frame and bed ($40) + the four stepper motors ($60) already puts you at $100, not to mention you know, everything else.
2.) He won't get back out of it what he paid, but if eBay is any indication he'll get ~75% back out.

I'm sure he appreciates your offer. roll

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Re: What's a modified SD3 worth?

If I could build em for a hundred bucks in parts I wouldn't have bought mine from SD smile and I have several...

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Re: What's a modified SD3 worth?

You could certainly put one of those together for $250 in parts, provided you bought 500 boards, 1000 steppers and a few hundred rods in 1m lengths, and negotiated a discount from a metal shop for the frame based on steady stream of orders for the foreseeable future.

The E3D by itself is something like $65 plus shipping, and you can play up the ability to print a wide variety of high temp materials.  Having that extruder pre-installed should be attractive to the kind of buyers who feel confident that they can deal with the Y skip.

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Re: What's a modified SD3 worth?

IanJohnson wrote:

You could certainly put one of those together for $250 in parts, provided you bought 500 boards, 1000 steppers and a few hundred rods in 1m lengths, and negotiated a discount from a metal shop for the frame based on steady stream of orders for the foreseeable future.

The E3D by itself is something like $65 plus shipping, and you can play up the ability to print a wide variety of high temp materials.  Having that extruder pre-installed should be attractive to the kind of buyers who feel confident that they can deal with the Y skip.

+1

$300 is what I would offer a rocketman just to be a jackass. 725-750 is a fair price I think.

SD3 w/ mods:
Glass bed with QU-BD heat pad upgrade, threadless ballscrew w/ 8mm smooth rod, spectra line belt replacement, lawsy MK5 extruder, Lawsy replacement carriage, E3D hotend, Ramps 1.4 w/ reprap discount controller, DRV8825 drivers, 12v 30A PS, Acrylic case, Overkill Y-idlers, Filament alarm, Extruder fan + more.

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Re: What's a modified SD3 worth?

IanJohnson wrote:

You could certainly put one of those together for $250 in parts

Then you've got the build time. Assuming you had STLs to print and ignored that time/cost, you're still looking at an easy 4 hours of assembly time. Depends how you value your time I guess, but it starts getting close to $500 pretty quick.

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Re: What's a modified SD3 worth?

Here is an educated assessment of the Solidoodle BOM-

http://forums.reprap.org/read.php?1,169 … msg-170909

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Re: What's a modified SD3 worth?

IanJohnson wrote:

Here is an educated assessment of the Solidoodle BOM-

http://forums.reprap.org/read.php?1,169 … msg-170909

I'd agree with most of those numbers. Note that's for the $499 SD2 version.

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Re: What's a modified SD3 worth?

You guys read past "red neck mods"?  I thought that made clear it was a joke, and stopped there.  smile

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Re: What's a modified SD3 worth?

Yeah, I've seen that and pretty much agree... every time I build a small machine I end up with closer to 300 in major parts so for me it was well worth the extra cash to just order 'em and wait..... and wait ... wink

16 (edited by foofoodog 2013-10-05 00:12:47)

Re: What's a modified SD3 worth?

elmoret wrote:

1.) the CNC brake'ed frame and bed ($40)

Angle iron that was run through a chop saw and pop riveted together is not CNC.

Let's see the BOM breakdown for the filastruder now big guy.

You guys are leading edge and you pay the price for that, we as your customers subsidize that. I for one am happy to do so and I am glad you are able to do it. Keep up the good work. And please let me know when all 120# orders have shipped.

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Re: What's a modified SD3 worth?

Hunter Green wrote:

You guys read past "red neck mods"?  I thought that made clear it was a joke, and stopped there.  smile

Offer still stands, I have 3 c-notes here with mostly non-consecutive serial numbers earmarked for this.

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Re: What's a modified SD3 worth?

elmoret wrote:

Probably $725. Those mods are +100, the fact it is used is -$100, and the y-axis skipping is -$75.

I don't think you realize how fast consumer products depreciate. Used makes it 50% off retail right away. There are after market mods, it is non-OEM, and it is admittedly defective. $300 is a fair offer.

I have an X64 quad core 3.6 GHz, 8GB RAM, SSD + RAID, gaming graphics, modular power supply, watered cooled computer here that I have about a grand into over the years. And by your math I can get $750 for it. Show up at my door with $750 cash and it is yours. And bring my struder with you.

19 (edited by Hunter Green 2013-10-05 03:17:46)

Re: What's a modified SD3 worth?

foofoodog wrote:

Offer still stands, I have 3 c-notes here with mostly non-consecutive serial numbers earmarked for this.

Send them along.  I'll find a good use for them.

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Re: What's a modified SD3 worth?

Check the completed eBay listing first.   The stock Solidoodles don't take a very big discount.   The E3D and enclosure are assets  which improve functionality,  not detriments.

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Re: What's a modified SD3 worth?

foofoodog wrote:

Angle iron that was run through a chop saw and pop riveted together is not CNC.

I don't know which SD model you have, but I looked at my SD3, and it is indeed folded sheet metal, not a bunch of separate angle pieces. 

The only angle pieces that are separate from the rest of the frame are the upper left and right braces.  Everything else started life as a single piece of sheet metal that was either stamped, cut or whatever, then folded and riveted.

http://www.soliforum.com/misc.php?action=pun_attachment&item=3581

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To print or, 3D print, that is the question...
SD3 printer w/too many mods,  Printrbot Simple Maker Ed.,  FormLabs Form 1+
AnyCubic Photon, Shining 3D EinScan-S & Atlas 3D scanners...
...and too much time on my hands.

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Re: What's a modified SD3 worth?

Since no one else will say it, I will:

Solve that last problem. Take video of it, show people what is happening. I know you are pretty much done with this, but from a selling stand-point you need to solve the issue. Stock SD3's are selling for only $100 below retail. A modified one such as yours should sell for more, but not if it still has problems.

The reason is that you can sell to the following people:

Someone experienced with SD mods: They already have an SD. Unless you were willing to sell for half the cost ($400 or less), they have no good reason to buy it knowing it needs to be fixed. If it was already fixed, then they would buy it for less of a discount knowing they would save the time of performing the upgrades. This assumes these people are even in the market for another SD (maybe a friend or relative?). I would say $800 or more in good working condition.

Someone less experienced: Maybe someone who has a non-functioning printer or failed kit looking for a better printer, maybe on a budget. This person is not looking to buy a problem.

No experience: These people are just getting into things. It would take them weeks of research to understand what it is you are offering, and the understanding of exactly what it is they would be getting into. Think what it would be like if you never heard of 3d printing and your best friend brought over this exact Solidoodle with this exact problem and asked for your help. How confident would you feel even after reading through pages of forums and such that you could fix the problem cold? So for this market, your not going to get anyone to buy it. These people are only considering stock machines from the vendor.

Foofoodog: Good ploy. Bash the design to get a better discount. Funny, you have repeatedly reported that your SD runs great.

Chuck Bittner is a quadriplegic gamer who is petitioning the major console developers to include internal button remapping in all console games. You can help.
Sign Chuck Bittners petition

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Re: What's a modified SD3 worth?

Hazer wrote:

Solve that last problem.

If I had a way to do that, this conversation would never have been happening.

I mean, I do have a few more last ditch attempts ahead of me.  I'm going to futz around with bed re-re-re-re-releveling for the ten thousandth time, I'm going to try other designs, I'm going to try pointing a camera at various parts of the printer while it's failing, I may even haul the whole printer up to Burlington to see if some people who don't even use a Solidoodle have any ideas because it's the only resource I have available.

But no one has any ideas that actually relate to the problem.  In the thread about this problem, no one's even suggested a method to attempt to diagnose it, a test to try, that's actually got anything to do with the issue.  Except one person who suggested replacing the stepper motors, which is at least as far beyond my capabilities as the E3D was, and makes less sense since it doesn't account at all for what caused the problem to suddenly manifest from not-at-all to every-time.

As I wrote above, the "it's always one mod/fix/upgrade away from working, and never arrives" issue is only half of why I'm almost ready to throw in the towel.  The other half is that I feel like I used up all my chips with getting actionable input from you guys here, and without that, I really have nothing.  No directions to investigate, no techniques to apply.  No way to "just fix it".

I realize being able to fix it would make this far more saleable.  It would also make me have no reason to want to sell it.  (Except perhaps the likelihood that after a week of printing, it'll spontaneously manifest a new problem.)

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Re: What's a modified SD3 worth?

The Y skip is tough, I kept running into it until I replaced the stepper.  The things to try are greasing the rods with lithium grease, and doing the method in the perfect circles video.  It might be a matter of finding the right combination of tension between the drive belt and the long belts.  Tightening the drive belt by pushing the motor down helps eliminate backlash, but it makes the Y axis harder to move, and if you do tighten it too much it can bend the rod a little.  Keep the drive belt loose enough that when you push the extruder back, it doesn't make the front of the printer lift up.  The long belts should be loosish.  If you have the tension gauge I made, I usually keep them between the third and forth notches. 

When you adjust the tension on the long belts, it might be a good idea to loosen the pulleys and slide it forward and back a few times to make sure they are in alignment.  I think John has suggested previously that getting the tension the same between belts isn't that important, what matters is that the pulleys are positioned on the rod where they need to be, rotationally.  If you tighten a belt, I think the tension would stay tighter on the top of the loop than the bottom, because the  teeth hold the belt in place keeping that tension from getting transferred around the pulley.  If you loosen the set screws, the pulley can turn a little and equalize the tension between the top and bottom of the belts.  I don' know if it actually makes a difference, but it is worth trying.

Also try switching your X and Y stepper drivers and see if you get skips in X.  Maybe it's just a bad driver.

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Re: What's a modified SD3 worth?

I'm moving the "advice" stuff back to the other thread.

Though this reminds me of the third reason why this means it's probably time to bail out.  My brand of logic suggests that if you only change one thing about a system, and then a new problem arises, the odds are high that the new problem is related to the change you just made.  (Not certain, but highly likely.)  This is based on the assumption that the parts of the printer that worked yesterday will usually keep working today, unless you do something that could possibly affect them.  (Obviously, not 100% of the time.  "Things fill apart; the center cannot hold."  But the expectation should be that most parts will go months, if not years, between random failures, not days.)

As with almost all my previous problems, all the advice I've gotten (with one notable exception, that didn't pan out) is predicated on the idea that the last modification had nothing to do with it, and it's just yet another coincidence that something wholly unrelated to the last modification should suddenly fail just after fixing the previous problem, and that you guys just take for granted that that happens.  So much that it's not even worth factoring the E3D install into the diagnosis process.  And if that's true, then that shows how far off my expectations of what one can expect from the printer are from what everyone else's are.