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Topic: Anyone done a Kickstarter campaign?

It looks good but I'm sure there are some issues to consider both inside and outside K/S.

One thing that occurs to me is the vulnerability factor. If I were a "offshore" company in the business of ripping off other people's intellectual property, I would be camped out on K/S watching what is coming down the pike. Hell, contribute, get a first copy, then be out in six months with a counterfeit. "It's so simple".

Or am I just being paranoid?

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2 (edited by 3d-oodler 2013-09-23 20:11:04)

Re: Anyone done a Kickstarter campaign?

Not paranoid:
http://www.prsnlz.me/industry-news/russ … -20-mins./
http://www.3dprinter.net/chinese-firm-c … inting-pen
Better link: http://www.prsnlz.me/industry-news/when … -3doodler/

In this case, these knock offs were out well in advance of the real deal.

BTW: My handle has nothing to do with the 3Doodler product.  That came out shortly after I created my handle here.

3 (edited by 3d-oodler 2013-09-23 20:10:22)

Re: Anyone done a Kickstarter campaign?

Ouch, just came across this listing:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-3D-Printing … 232ffa8309

"Crow Crow 3D printing pen" even ripped off the 3Doodler promo pics (and left the name in them)

Correction: This ebay lister ripped off....

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Re: Anyone done a Kickstarter campaign?

I have.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/833 … t-extruder

I would love to answer any questions you (or others) have. As for companies copying the Filastruder...

I hope they do.

I'm not in it for the money. When I first set out to build the Filastruder, my goal was to get at-home extrusion into the hands of as many people as possible, to allow all sorts of innovation. This has already happened - some users are making electrically conductive filament, nylon/ABS copolymer, plastics with a melting point just above room temperature, etc. Chemical engineering departments are buying them for their labs. It is providing a new tool in the world of polymer extrusion. That's the point.

When I set out on this venture, Lyman's design had a BOM of $250 at qty 400. That became my price target - except I wanted to provide that in qty 1. I was able to do it, at $200/kit in fact (in the kickstarted days).

Back to your question - I am reminded of a quote from one of my favorite scientists:

“I don't care that they stole my idea... I care that they don't have any of their own”
― Nikola Tesla

Often times when these products are reverse engineered and knockoffs made, issues are fixed that the original designer neglected - I am reminded of the Makerbot clones which fixed numerous issues in the design, and did it at half the cost. It would bother me if a company cloned the Filastruder but made no improvements to the design, because that would mean no innovation took place, when there was a chance for innovation! What a tragic opportunity lost. If they made a clone that was faster/easier to assemble/better looking, I'd love that.

I'm also pretty anti-patent. Patents discourage innovation and reward having attorneys on retainer instead of a larger R&D department. If another company clones the Filastruder, I am driven to produce a better product to compete. If I have a patent on at-home filament extrusion, I'm unlikely to try to improve the design of the Filastruder, and there's no opportunity for someone else to come out with something better. Ultimately, innovation provides a net benefit to society, while patents provide a net benefit to stockholders. There are exceptions to this, like industries where R&D costs are very high relative to costs of reverse-engineering/copying (pharmaceuticals come to mind here).

Finally, you can't reverse engineer a name. Makerbot was acquired by Stratasys for $403 million. Do you think the bulk of that was because Makerbot had a unique design or a boatload of IP? Nope. All in the name. There are dozens of printers with better designs for cheaper, but Makerbot is the household name, so it continues to get cash shoveled into its bank vault. Look at their 3D scanner - $100 of parts for $1500. That is the power of being first to market and having name recognition.

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Re: Anyone done a Kickstarter campaign?

Whether you kickstart an idea, or market it on your own, if your idea is good enough it will get copied.

I am also in agreement about patents. Its ridiculous to think that noone can make an SL printer without getting sued. I can understand a direct copy, but a technology by itself in general should never be patented. And overseas will copy it anyway.

Anywho, I understand someone not having their work copied. 6 years ago, I wrote and distributed a piece of code and circuit design for 'rapidfire xbox controllers' that quickly made Ebay explode with thousands of auctions selling the chips with my code in them. I released the code purely based on seeing people market a $1.20 chip with a simple output pulse for $20+ and I was miffed. I created the code open-source (not even a CC license) for DIY people, and next thing you know, this weird market for people who wanted a turbo function on their controller became a $100-$300 per controller market selling tens of thousands of chips, kits, and pre-made controllers.

People will copy your work, regardless.

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Re: Anyone done a Kickstarter campaign?

Yeah, I agree with your patent sentiments, fellas. I have no intention of trying to patent my designs. Years ago I did patent some encryption software I wrote, it was a real hassle and expensive. My intent is to be first to market, quickly establish a prominent position, acquire as much market share as the market wants to give me, then assume the clones and competitors will be along shortly. What I DON'T want is to put up a KS campaign and then see its clone on Aliexpress or ebay before I even get my first run shipped.

But, as you say, perhaps that is to be expected. I am pro-innovation but I'm also pro-making-a-little-money for a while before moving on to the next idea.

Robox printer, HICTOP (Prusa i3 variant) Model 3DP17 printer, ELEK 2.5W laser engraver, AutoDesk 123D Design, Windows 10

7

Re: Anyone done a Kickstarter campaign?

3Doodler just came out with an update with some new features which they kept under wraps until they are close to shipping.  They have a silicon sleeve to protect the user from the nozzle, attachment points for mounting it to some kind of CNC (robot arm would be cool) and some method of activating the extrude button remotely (also important for CNC).   The clone that was rushed to market isn't going to have those.  Also rapid cooling is key to making it easy to use, and you can't really tell what they have done for that just from looking at the pictures.

So go to Kickstarter with your base product or idea which is enough to sell it and get moving, but keep some features or improvements under wraps.  Then, by the time the clones have added those, maybe you will have some more innovations that you have a head start on.

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Re: Anyone done a Kickstarter campaign?

Hazer wrote:

Whether you kickstart an idea, or market it on your own, if your idea is good enough it will get copied.

I am also in agreement about patents. Its ridiculous to think that noone can make an SL printer without getting sued. I can understand a direct copy, but a technology by itself in general should never be patented. And overseas will copy it anyway.

Anywho, I understand someone not having their work copied. 6 years ago, I wrote and distributed a piece of code and circuit design for 'rapidfire xbox controllers' that quickly made Ebay explode with thousands of auctions selling the chips with my code in them. I released the code purely based on seeing people market a $1.20 chip with a simple output pulse for $20+ and I was miffed. I created the code open-source (not even a CC license) for DIY people, and next thing you know, this weird market for people who wanted a turbo function on their controller became a $100-$300 per controller market selling tens of thousands of chips, kits, and pre-made controllers.

People will copy your work, regardless.

+1...In the corporate environment and our corresponding markets, Patents carry a lot of weight ONLY because major companies have the financial backing and in-house legal staff to back it up and can strike fear into potential rip-off artists.  We can and do prosecute infringement on our designs; but most individual inventors do not have the financial where-with-all to even begin to embark on enforcing their IP even if they have a rock solid patent.  It can cost HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of dollars to prosecute...and most copycats know this.   Like Ian and elmoret pointed out, in these cases, it is best to continually improve your product and cost base to keep the copycats in the dust.

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