Mendelmax 2 review, MUST READ!!! (Page 1 of 2)

I can't speak to the claims of specific vendors, but home 3D printing as a whole is an emerging technology and will require some work to get where you want it. I would expect a true plug & play printer to cost much more than 2-3K. You may want to begin by looking at a StrataSys.

I run a space heater into my enclosure, and it tops out at 50C.  I think the Stratasys printers run 70.   90 is over the top to be sure.  Also most people making printed extruders go for ABS since the melt point of PLA is so much lower. 

You won't find any enclosed printers due to patents, so it's best to look for box shaped printers that are easily enclosed.  There aren't many choices, in addition to Solidoodle there is Makerbot 2X and Qu-BD revolution.   BotObjects is enclosed, but is very much an unknown at this point.  Ultimaker is good, but you have to add a heated bed yourself.   You might also look at delta printers.  It shouldn't be too hard to stick some acrylic on their frames.

We cannot respond to any specifics of this case, however we want to state clearly and for the record that we are happy to replace any defective products. In some cases, a replacement may not be the most practical solution, so when there are simpler solutions we may propose them as an alternative. We will always offer a replacement of a defective item if the customer requests according to our published policies.

We will be happy to respond to the specific complaints that our customer has raised once the dispute is resolved.  If anyone has specific questions about our support policies or the technical issues that have been raised, they are welcome to email [email protected].

The poster here has filed a PayPal claim, entering arbitration for a partial refund, and as a result of PayPal rules we were instructed to cease non-PayPal communication. Below is our last response to the PayPal claim:

Hi [customer],

We are sorry that you have been unable to get your printer working. We have over 300 other MendelMax 2 kits in the field at this point, the vast majority of which are printing without difficulty. The printer is a well engineered, quality product, and we fully stand behind what we sell. We are happy to provide replacements for any parts that are defective, and we agree that the bed heater is defective due to poor adhesion  We apologize for that, unfortunately that was a defective product we received from a supplier. We do our best to maintain high quality control, but a previously reliable supplier changed adhesive without advising us, so unfortunately we had no way to know about the problem until after we had shipped several of the heaters out. We will also provide you with the replacement hot end retainer, though contrary to your claim we did not tell you to enclose the printer, merely to shield it from drafts.

Unfortunately, we cannot accept responsibility for user error or guarantee that our customers have the necessary technical skills to build and operate the printer. Like many other products, 3D printers require certain technical skills, especially one that is sold as a kit. We do our best to be honest about the skills needed-- certainly we are more upfront about it than almost any other company in the industry-- but we have no way to actually confirm that our customers have those skills. We're happy to consult with potential customers, but you never contacted us prior to purchasing to confirm whether the printer was suitable for you. Our first contact with you was after you had purchased the printer. We try to give an honest assessment of the issues people will face when people have questions, but we cannot do that if you do not ask any questions prior to purchase.

3D Printing is hard. I truly believe that our printer makes it as easy as possible, however it is still challenging. Read the mailing lists for ANY 3D printer company and you will see people having the exact same issues you are having. It takes time and patience to get good prints, but if you put in the effort, you will be rewarded.

In spite of your hostility, we are acting on some of the issues you have raised. Only one out of 300 people have failed to set the proper PSU voltage, but we are adding a sticker to the PSU box to help prevent future blown fuses. We are launching a forum to make it easier for people to ask questions and share tips and tricks. This had been in our long term plans all along, but at your prodding we have moved it up in our priority list. And of course, if you have any constructive feedback on our docs, we will absolutely roll them into future versions. We do respond to customer feedback, and we do so more quickly than just about any company you are likely to come across. But the reality is some people cannot be pleased, and it seems like from the very beginning you had decided that we were to blame for any and all problems you had, and that has colored your opinion every step of the way from then on. At this point, I do not believe you will be satisfied by anything we do.

I am a firm believer in free speech. You have certainly have a right to voice your opinion. Unfortunately, you do NOT have a right to blackmail us, and we will not tolerate that. Comments like "how many customers are you happy to loose, 1 ,2, 10 , 100 balls in your court" seem to betray your true objective. You may have thought that would cause us to waiver, but the reality is your stance makes us stand our ground even more strongly. We firmly feel that we have provided you with the highest quality product and support possible, and we honestly believe our satisfied customers and customer service record (including our lengthy support discussions with you) back us up on that.

The ball is now in yours and PayPal's court since you initiated the claim. We cannot proceed with any additional support until the claim is settled by PayPal or by yourself.

This correspondence will be added to the requested files from Paypal, as well as your public threats on our Facebook page.  Please use the PayPal channels for all future correspondence, as PayPal's dispute system dictates.

Thank you,
Jeff Davis
CEO, Maker's Tool Works

i like the makerbot 2x, there is also a leapfrog. but for the largest prints, it's a little more expensive
PROFI3DMAKER 400 x 260 x 190 mm (19.7 litres0. it seems like every week there is a new printer poping up,
to wait a while or not to wait?

The reason to put aluminum foil is to reflect radiating heat:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiant_barrier

By putting aluminum foil below the heated plate, you minimize heat loss from radiation in that direction.

At this point, it's your printer. You bought a product without a warranty, at which point you assumed some level of liability. Even if absolutely nothing you did was your fault, you still assumed the risks by making the purchase in the first place. Having said that, this case and others like it are the reason Maker's Tool Works Refund Policy allows returns at all. But the policy stipulates same-condition status, which you void by troubleshooting yourself. When you first started experiencing troubles, when you decided to soldier forward instead of return the product, you again assumed personal (if not legal) liability for your actions.

This sounds like a failure to do research. It's not anyone's fault but your own that you bought a printer with a moving print bed. People talk day in and day out about the various reasons it's preferable to having a moving extruder over a moving bed.

I don't doubt that he told you to put it in a box, people with Solidoodles do that too. And several other "microwave" printers. That prevents convection heat loss. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convective_heat_transfer
I do doubt that he told you it's 90C in his box. Not even a double-corrugated box without leaking is going to trap heat that efficiently. This part sounds like bullshit.

This part also sounds like bullshit. What about the extruder was "melted"? Where are the pictures? How do you know this was caused by being in a (according to you) 37C box, and not because you set the extruder to too high of a temperature? Why are you even posting this on the Solidoodle forum, now that I think about it? This part of your claim is so dubious that I wish there was a stronger word to describe just how doubtful this is.

Wait, I just thought of something! Was the "cupboard" you put your printer in big and metal and sitting in your kitchen? Yeah, that's an oven. You shouldn't put your printer in an oven.

Not sure why you think trying to troubleshoot your own problem and failing entitles you to anything (see point above about warranty), let alone something you never had in the first place. There's no reason for them to send an all-metal hot end just because you did something improper that (allegedly) destroyed yours. And last I checked, responding to your e-mails and questions  and making suggestions doesn't seem like being F^&*cked around with to me. It kind of is how all support for any desktop 3D printer works right now. If you didn't like their advice, instead of following it, you should have boxed up your unaltered printer and shipped it back for a refund or exchange. It was your own impatience that has been your undoing here.

Anyway, thought about replying to more of your nonsensical fallacious post, but there were other stupid things thrown in it that are just insulting to the brain. I'm sure some research or forward thinking might have saved you from some of this trouble, but you seem to be one of those entitled "I'm the customer and I'm always right!" people.

Bottom line: You seem to be in the wrong. I wish Maker's Tool Works all the luck in your current dispute.

Edit: For good measure: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

more pics...

nlancaster i really like your response, so sensible and nice, your a genuine guy. after my extruder melted i looked over the heat log, or whatever you want to call it, and there were no crazy figures. so i put it back on the advice i got. and then when i did a little further research i noticed that all the printers that were aiming towards the ABS market and had enclosures did not use printed PLA parts in their extruder heads, all metal. its just a really really dumb choice of material. i have a mill at home and i can reproduce the parts in this machine in metal, tops it will take me an hour to get it going. thats neither here nor there, i'm not an employee of their company, i'm not getting paid to remodel, redesign where they have failed. they are not a non profit charity organization. i have had enough crap, if they know that their bed can't reach the specs that it is meant to, and they do, they should provide the parts from the start, yes? but they didn't. i know how to fix all the problems this printer has, and i can do it at my time and leisure, that takes me from being a customer to something completely different. i didn't realize before i began that i would actively have to involve my design skills in getting this printer to work, i'm not in the mood for it. i was hoping to, as fast as possible get my own product on the market, using this as the prototyping tool. and i cant, before i can get my project done i have to fix the issues with this. i'm not happy. like i wrote to jeff, if we can agree on one thing it is that the bed heater is faulty, he has admitted it 100%, i have it in writing. Than surely it cant be my responsibility to pay for the freight to remove this printer from my premises. i received a faulty product, it's your problem jeff, i am not making a loss of $500 measly dollars because you sent me something that could not perform on quite a few levels. its not a personal attack, if it happened with any other company my stance would be the same.

i think you are getting a little frustrated. i think you're taking it too personally. i am coming to terms with the fact that this printer was an amateurs attempt. i bought this printer with zero knowledge of what to expect apart from seeing a few printer Yoda heads on a few websights. i make no attempt to hide my lack of 3d printing experience which came to a dramatic halt when the extruder melted. Not one of the printer companies go into detail about the shortcomings of their machines in their advertisements for some reason. i suppose it's not good marketing. one of the first sentences that i got from Makers tool works is "you'll have to lower your expectations". thats pretty funny.
        if jeff had responded to my emails, agreed to send me some gasket silicone, a new bed heater, and an all metal extruder which i can purchase for $50 on ebay, i would be spending my time learning about 3d printing, instead my new hobby is posting replies to MTW associates or fanboys. who are so scared of honest information its not funny.
        there is only one variable that lead to the melting down of the part, that was the enclosure that i was recommended to put on, unless this machine has some other internal faults that i am unaware of, please enlighten me, it will be good for the video.  i am using my critical mind to dissect this thing and when i have compiled adequate knowledge you'll be able to watch my full critique. i will have some design suggestions and tips so MTW get your pens out. looking forward to your future feedback.

You blaming of the enclosure for the melting of the extruder assembly is wrong. Your own post says your printer only got upto 37c PLA does not melt until around 180C. There is no possible way that the enclosure is to blame for the melting of the extruder.  Most melting as your picture show is from an overheating stepper. The weird part of yours, is that part of the extruder that melted, is not even attached to the stepper assembly. And also that your extruder is driven by a geared stepper, which probably wont get hot anyway.  Also the melting on your extruder assembly is localized to the area where the tension print attaches. I see no signs of melting on any other parts of the extruder, or even on the fan mount that is right in the foreground of the picture.  very strange.

i have a fan mounted as designed by mendelmax and it is pointing at the printed piece, there is no fan for cooling the extruder like other enclosed printers have. what i have seen in alot of other printers is an alluminium heat sink with an attached fan, the mendelmax doesn't have this. yes pla may melt completely at 180 c , but i am sure that it does not need to melt completely before the pressure of the spring is enough to deform it. when i noticed the damage i touched the components and they had a gummy feel to them but were not oozing, if that makes any sense. and like i said, i checked over the heat log to see whether the actual extruder head had gone awal, the heighest temp there was 135 c, it is a bit baffling but one thing for certain, i wouldn't design a printer with these kind of temperatures made of PLA parts, its just begging for problems, much like having the Y axis thrusting your model back and forth. it may work once twice but in the end it's fallible. the amount of design issues this thing has i almost find it impossible to believe that they havn't been engineered into the product to create a whole industry around providing new parts continuously as it falls apart. i find it hard to believe that an engineer or product designer could be so stupid on so many levels.

PLA extruder parts and no cooling fan?  Yup, that sounds pretty sub-optimal.

However, I think you do yourself a disservice and set expectations too high when you use the terms engineer or product designer.  My impression is that you bought a printer built in a garage by some enthusiasts, and that many if not most of these printers fit this description.  Yeah, I would ask for some replacement parts too to get up and running again, but IMHO you crossed the line calling them morons and demanding they essentially redesign the printer for you.  They are indeed probably not trained engineers, but it does not make them morons just because your expectations are too high.  However it sounds like you bought a printer with no warranty from guys with unknown expertise without doing much research, and you should have known better, so who is more of a moron here? Since the printer did work at some point, if you can get back to that and improve the design yourself like the rest of us.

ysb, I at least am not trying to say its the buyers fault entirely.  It is possible that some things were no designed properly on this machine.  But I have seen many other people with his machine that have had very good success printing with it.  The main problem with the 3d printers we have been buying, is they are not ready for consumer use.  at this price point, they are all prototypes even the great makerbot requires tweaking to get good prints out of it. 

The main problem shoptiludrop09 has had is his attitude when things started to go wrong. Resulting in cursing at the seller and calling them idiots and morons.  We do have a saying in the USA of buyer beware. If you purchase something without being aware of what the that product is going to be like. 

Tough shit.

Maker tool works and solidoodle sell the product as "no warranty"  they for the most part do stand behind the product to replace parts even so. But they would be fully within their rights as a company to say, "aw, its broke?  to bad, see ya."  That would be bad for business and I think solidoodle is getting over the worst of their customer service issues.  From what I have read it seems like makertoolworks tried to give the customer replacement parts, and help to get it working to his satisfaction. But then he goes and does stupid stuff like wrapping the outside of his printer in foil, and his camera also.