1 (edited by dbgw 2012-10-10 17:54:46)

Topic: It's arrived... But...

EDIT 10/10/2012: The worst of the shipping damage was simple to repair and I have since completed some great prints with no alignment or tweaking required. The other broken extruder plastics do not appear to be hampering the printing process, but Solidoodle have stated that they will dispatch replacement parts.


After 5 months the printer has finally arrived here in blighty, looking rather good.

I'm in the office at the moment so I won't have an opportunity to properly unpack or test it until tonight or possibly this weekend - but upon opening the door to look for any obvious damage, I did see a loose part in the bottom of the case:

http://projects.dbgw.co.uk/dump/solidoodle-loosepart.jpg

Can anyone identify the piece?
Is it likely to be a relatively simple repair?

It seems like the (weak looking) printed plastic parts have snapped off a larger part of the rail system.

The rails all appear to be in place, but I can't remove the packing plastic without removing the case, which I can't do until I get home. I therefore can't check the movement of the carriage, which this part appears to be related to.

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Re: It's arrived... But...

it seems that it is a piece of the back of the print carriage .. not good...

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Re: It's arrived... But...

You should email support and ask them to send you a new part.  I had a similar problem (although my broken part was much bigger).

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Re: It's arrived... But...

If it is the older design, it is the bottom of the right hand carriage that slides back and forth on the y axis. Definitely open it and inspect for other damage before sending them an email so you can take a picture and see if there will be more that needs replaced or fixed. Sorry bout your luck. Another week or two and you might've avoided this.

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Re: It's arrived... But...

Maybe they should consider using FedEx rather than Ace Ventura.

I would be interested in seeing the new design whenever someone gets one.  There seems to be enough up and down shaking caused by the gorillas to cause layers to separate.  Thicker parts make more surface area, and hopefully they are printing with a much denser fill than we have seen in other broken carriages.  I think the strongest solution would be a design that can be printed on its side so the layers go side to side rather than up and down.

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Re: It's arrived... But...

all things considered they should be using injection molded parts for the cost aspect and quality though i do know they use this meathod to illustrate their wares and ts convenient for design changes. but ptinting is laborious

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I have to agree. Injection molding would make the piece more akin to isotropy. If anything, they can create the moulds out of the printed pieces which would be just as impressive and much more efficient for production. It would highlight one of the stronger capabilities of 3d printing.

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Re: It's arrived... But...

Their posting for mechanical engineer position asked for experience with injection molding.  I suspect there are barriers related to expertise and tooling costs that they will need to overcome first.  At least they can iterate the design with the printer before committing to a mold.

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Re: It's arrived... But...

A properly designed IM mold is expensive... for the low quantity of parts being produced here, IM is not financially prudent. Yes, it's more sturdy, but even the smallest change typically means a new mold.

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Re: It's arrived... But...

Why not have them professional printed by another company so it looks more like an injection molded part. I would think that could keep the cost down, but have a better product.

SD2 - Glass Bed, Fans on PCB and Y motor, Custom enclosure
Slicer - Simplify3D

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Re: It's arrived... But...

I'm not very knowledgable on injection molding so I will not comment on the price except comment that the process would be much faster and save them from the thousands of pieces printed along with assuming lots of replacements.

I don't think appearance is an issue, plus the other companies printing would have the same issues of anisotropic strength. As Ian suggested reorienting the print might help.

All that being said, they seem to think their new design is 'virtually indestructible'. Therefore, problem solved, no need for new shipping company, injection molding, or anything else. Plus printing out parts for new printers is a good way to check quality of old printers.

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Re: It's arrived... But...

Hello Folks,
Thanks for your thoughts and comments.

I've now returned home and have been able to properly unpack the printer, identifying the broken part(s).

http://projects.dbgw.co.uk/photographs/solidoodle-loosepart.jpg
http://projects.dbgw.co.uk/photographs/solidoodle-partlocation.jpg

It's the top part of the right-hand axis rail carriage.

Although it should be a quick fix, I'm amazed at how weak and poorly designed this printed part is. It's not just the part that broke off - the tabs that hold the bolts connecting the belt are also needlessly thin - a problem compounded by the torsional stress imposed by the way the bolts are attached to the belt.

I can understand the desire to save plastic, but even to a non-engineer, it is obvious that this component (which is supporting the weight of the printing carriage and rails) was going to fail during shipping.

Hopefully this is one of the parts that has been 'redesigned' in newer models.

Unfortunately this breakage has meant that the whole printer head and one of the axis rails has been hanging by the belt for an extended period of time, which can't have done it much good.

http://projects.dbgw.co.uk/photographs/solidoodle-extruderdamage.jpg

Unfortunately that isn't the only damage - two of the extruder plastic layers have snapped in one corner (shown above).

I don't quite understand how this could have been caused by shipping abuse, as this part wouldn't have been subjected to any additional stress. My guess would be that it happened during production and wasn't noticed before shipping.

I'll be passing these photos on to support shortly to get recommendations before attempting any repairs.

I believe the rail plastic can be repaired easily with some superglue (and later replaced with a better-designed printed part), but I'm not sure about the layered extruder parts.

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Re: It's arrived... But...

For now, use acetone rather than superglue.  You don't need to worry as much about it getting on the rails, and the plastic melted together will be a better bond.

The thin design of the parts isn't about saving plastic so much as time, I think.  Printing is slow.  If injection molding isn't economical, I would think that there might be some solution possible using silicone molds and some kind of resin.  The cure time might not be any faster than printing, but it's easier to make a lot of molds than to make a lot of printers.

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Re: It's arrived... But...

That is the new design, hopefully you've contacted solidoodle so they can see they need to keep tinkering with the design.  I think they should get some cardboard braces custom designed to use during shipping, would take care of a lot of these problems.  Mine also came with a cracked piece that I superglued back together and it's been working fine for over a month of printing most days. 

I'm not sure without looking at the part more closely, but just because you can print it doesn't mean it can be made from a mold, you have to think about how the negative of the mold steel has to be and how the part would come out of there, even on a split mold.  But I think in keeping with the spirit of 3d printing they would take heat if they didn't print their own plastic components.

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Re: It's arrived... But...

If it were a RepRap, then they certainly would need to print components in the spirit of the machine making its own parts.  It's not really the case here.   If they can't come up with a design that can be printed sideways, an acetone dip might be worth considering.    I've found that parts with brittle layer adhesion become much stronger if those layers are melted together at the surface.

16 (edited by dbgw 2012-10-04 18:50:41)

Re: It's arrived... But...

IanJohnson wrote:

Maybe they should consider using FedEx rather than Ace Ventura.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mb8t2tIJGx1qi3u9go1_400.gif

Couldn't resist.

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Re: It's arrived... But...

IanJohnson wrote:

For now, use acetone rather than superglue.  You don't need to worry as much about it getting on the rails, and the plastic melted together will be a better bond.

That's great advice, thank you Ian.

I'll hang on until support get back as I don't want to do anything that might invalidate the 'warranty'.

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Re: It's arrived... But...

They will take care of you and get you printing but there is no warranty.

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jooshs wrote:

They will take care of you and get you printing but there is no warranty.

That's why I put the word in 'quotation marks'. Solidoodle made it clear in the FAQ that there was no official warranty and I acknowledged that before making the decision to purchase/pre-order.


I've just discovered that the damage to the extruder plastics is slightly more elaborate than I thought:

http://projects.dbgw.co.uk/photographs/solidoodle-extrudercrack.jpg

In addition to the fractured corner pieces there is a large crack in the outer layer (seen here above the third 'o' in Solidoodle). I doubt it will affect the printing capabilities of the machine, but I'm not sure how any of the damage to the extruder occurred. It wasn't in contact within anything else during shipping and shouldn't have been excessively stressed.

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Re: It's arrived... But...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Injection_molding

i'm familiar with castign and molding (experience with arts and sculpture) the molds would be soemwhat expinsive tos tar if they used metal however they would be able to supply the STL files they use to print to mahine the molds so thats a large portion there. i found a cost estimater

http://chinaplastic.org/moldcalc_input.asp

as a test a part thats 1 inch by 2 inches by .75 inches with 4 inclusions/cavities
the mold woudl cost approximately 1681 usd with a per parts cost of 52 cents per part

so the question is how much a mold could cost how ironic would it be for china to be makign the parts to put them out of buisiness?

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Re: It's arrived... But...

I do injection molding in my house. The cost of the molds would be a little high upfront because of the cost of silicon rubber used to make the molds. But after that is done you would be able to reuse the molds hundreds or maybe even thousands of times.

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Re: It's arrived... But...

Proper injection moulding uses really expensive tooling. You normally wouldn't bother unless you were going to be making tend of thousands of parts. There is no way it is financially viable.

There is also quite an art to designing suitable parts. Shrinkage is a major factor and can ruin many parts if not factored in. Solid shapes do not work very well because of this. The part must be designed to only need a two part (male/female) mould, otherwise tooling skyrockets. Designing injection moulded parts in difficult, designing good ones is an art.

Alternatively, benchtop injection moulding which I imagine Jonathan does would probably be suitable for their application. Tooling can be made from a variety of materials and the parts will still come out a lot faster than 3D printing. Intelligent part design will still be paramount, but it is affordable to develop a design idea with prototypes and retool until it works.

http://www.injectionmolder.net/

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Re: It's arrived... But...

Just sightly off topic, but y'think the extruder is based on a Mk7?
I'm used to seeing reprap extruders with a two gear setup to drive the filament.
I've seen a more minimalist Mk7 on Thigiverse and I'm just thinking from a repair/replace standpoint it should be pretty easy to substitute a version in to replace it.  You'd have to spec the pieces to make sure it would fit, but I think it just might work...
Something else to think about while waiting...

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Re: It's arrived... But...

John from Solidoodle came back to me very quickly last night and has promised to dispatch replacement part(s) as soon as possible.

I gave the (temporarily clamped) printer a quick run through the axis and brief extrusion using the Standard Solidoodle software, which all appears to otherwise be working fine.

I've repaired and left the piece clamped/setting today so I can play with the printer further tonight.

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Re: It's arrived... But...

dbgw wrote:

John from Solidoodle came back to me very quickly last night and has promised to dispatch replacement part(s) as soon as possible.

I gave the (temporarily clamped) printer a quick run through the axis and brief extrusion using the Standard Solidoodle software, which all appears to otherwise be working fine.

I've repaired and left the piece clamped/setting today so I can play with the printer further tonight.

I'm glad we were able to get back to you fast. Were you able to repair your Solidoodle?

Former Solidoodle employee, no longer associated with the company.