1 Topic by pcm81

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Topic: SD3 beginner questions

I've been lurking around the forums for a while and had my SD3 for couple weeks now. I have couple questions as the result of my SD use.

1. For ABS printing what works the best: kapton/glass with/without hair spray? So far i had 1 part debond and curl, about a 4x4x4 inch size. I can just try all the different combinations, but i figured someone already did... I usually print at 90C bed 195 extruder temps.

2. I have y-axis backlash issues. The infill constantly does not reach the perimeter in those areas where the perimeter is parallel to X-axis. I leveled the plate and did perfect circles adjustments. Problem is still there. I know there is an SD2 firmware for backlash adjustments; is there an SD3 firmware? I don't really want to mess with firmware beyond changing couple numbers and loading it; i do that at work most of the day, any one has sd3 firmware with backlash code in an easy to load package?

Thanks

2 Reply by DigitalWhitewater

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Re: SD3 beginner questions

Glass with hairspray is the best. Hands down.
There may be other options out there, idk, but if you're just starting and want consistent prints with out getting crazy, then the glass on top of your stock print bed mod is the way to go.

Check out the well nut, or nuthugger, anti-backlash mods. They are cheap, easy, and work well.
As for firmware modding, you can't get it much easier then it already is. The newest firmware has the antibacklash in it, but is compiled for the SD2. There is one line in it that you'd have to change from SD2 to SD3. That simple. (Note: going from memory of what I read when updating my SD2, so if it has to be changed in more then one line forgive me. lol)

SD2 w/ mods: Rumba controller, ATX PSU, SD pro case, glass bed, with more to come...

3 Reply by pcm81

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Re: SD3 beginner questions

DigitalWhitewater wrote:

Glass with hairspray is the best. Hands down.
There may be other options out there, idk, but if you're just starting and want consistent prints with out getting crazy, then the glass on top of your stock print bed mod is the way to go.

Check out the well nut, or nuthugger, anti-backlash mods. They are cheap, easy, and work well.
As for firmware modding, you can't get it much easier then it already is. The newest firmware has the antibacklash in it, but is compiled for the SD2. There is one line in it that you'd have to change from SD2 to SD3. That simple. (Note: going from memory of what I read when updating my SD2, so if it has to be changed in more then one line forgive me. lol)

Thanks

4 Reply by pmerana

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Re: SD3 beginner questions

Hey for those of you who are printing on glass, what temperature do you have your beds set to? Without an enclosure I could only get to I think it was ~90C. With my enclosure I can get it hotter but I am having sticking problems especially on the edges so I wanted to crank the heat up. SOMETIMES I can get it to 100C with the enclosure but not always. I just want to know what you all use?

5 Reply by Hunter Green

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Re: SD3 beginner questions

I went to 90C after switching to glass.  Some people go even lower; I haven't experimented with 80 despite that, as I'm afraid to mess with anything that works.

FlashForge Creator, SketchUp 2013

6 Reply by op7ical

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Re: SD3 beginner questions

In my opinion, the bed temperature does not matter too much once it goes past a certain point, which you will have to determine by trial.  The ambient temperature is far more important, as well as the quality of the bond at the base layer.  I have had edges curl more in some cases when I pushed the bed temp too high.

7 Reply by solijohn

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Re: SD3 beginner questions

op7ical wrote:

In my opinion, the bed temperature does not matter too much once it goes past a certain point, which you will have to determine by trial.  The ambient temperature is far more important, as well as the quality of the bond at the base layer.  I have had edges curl more in some cases when I pushed the bed temp too high.

Always make sure you clean the bed. Cleaning it with acetone will also help.

Former Solidoodle employee, no longer associated with the company.

8 Reply by pcm81

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Re: SD3 beginner questions

I can get my bed to 90C and with capton+hair spray large ABS prints still curl. I bought some 8x8 mirrors but still did not try them; hence the thread. It seems to me it is pointless to add capton to the mirror; since capton surface on aluminum or capton surface on mirror is still a capton surface. I think i will try mirror + hair spray next.

Was printing with ABS up till now; figured if i can get abs to work pla will be a piece of cake. Should i anticipate issues with PLA on mirror without capton? Any reason to add capton to mirror at all? Hairspray for PLA?

Advantage of bare mirror i see is its hardness. The hairspray forms a sticky layer on top of bed and using alcohol makes a gooey mess. The easiest way to remove old hairspray i found is to scrape it off with a knife. hard mirror surface should prove beneficial in this...

9 Reply by ronsii

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Re: SD3 beginner questions

The point of kapton on mirror/glass would be for flatness without using hairspray. I still print PLA on masking tape, it just sticks better for me.

10 Reply by pcm81

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Re: SD3 beginner questions

ronsii wrote:

The point of kapton on mirror/glass would be for flatness without using hairspray. I still print PLA on masking tape, it just sticks better for me.

I had ABS peel off kapton on stock aluminum without hair spray. I have glass bed now, but have not printed much on it yet.

The options i am trying to weigh against each other:
1. glass with hair spray
2. glass with kapton
3. glass with kapton and hair spray
4. sand blasted glass with hair spray

Sand blasted glass with kapton seems stupid, since sand blasted surface would be covered by kapton.
What do you all think is the best way to go? I seem to be unable to get aluminum bed above 90C, so printing at lower temps and no curling would be the goal.

11 Reply by nlancaster

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Re: SD3 beginner questions

I have been running my glass between 85c and 70c and no matter what I try I still sometimes get curling.  I get less curling at 70c then at 85c.

12 Reply by Gordym

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Re: SD3 beginner questions

It makes sense that running the bed cooler will cause less curling. Curling, from what I understand is from the hot layers being applied to the cooler layer underneath. When the upper layer cools, it shrinks, causing stress on the lower layer. Others have commented that reducing fill will help with curling because there will be less surface pulling on lower layers. This makes sense because some of my best prints have occurred when I printed them with Zero fill.

nlancaster wrote:

I have been running my glass between 85c and 70c and no matter what I try I still sometimes get curling.  I get less curling at 70c then at 85c.

SD2
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MK5 V6

13 Reply by pcm81

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Re: SD3 beginner questions

Gordym wrote:

It makes sense that running the bed cooler will cause less curling. Curling, from what I understand is from the hot layers being applied to the cooler layer underneath. When the upper layer cools, it shrinks, causing stress on the lower layer. Others have commented that reducing fill will help with curling because there will be less surface pulling on lower layers. This makes sense because some of my best prints have occurred when I printed them with Zero fill.

nlancaster wrote:

I have been running my glass between 85c and 70c and no matter what I try I still sometimes get curling.  I get less curling at 70c then at 85c.

In theory, its the other way around; running bed at higher temperature will create a more uniform temperature across the part, since top layers are the hottest. More uniform temperature of the part "supposed" to reduce curling. Adding holes to the part or reducing infill is cheating; since any technique you develop to reduce curling to solid part will help the lower density part just as much.

Heated print box helps allot, but again it is an additive help.

I am trying to figure out what is the ultimate best print bed set-up. Bought some kapton tape and will try it on glass when it gets here. I haven't yet decided if glass with hair spray works better or worse than kapton with hair spray.

14 Reply by adrian

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Re: SD3 beginner questions

don't forget the old ceramic tile.

Based on the thermal images I posted, it has the largest thermal mass - meaning it takes ages for it to change tempreature. Glass on the other hand, changes temps in a matter of seconds based on heat energy....

And don't forget Kapton is traditionally sold as an insulator.. I use it extensively to *protect* parts when doing Solder Rework - to *prevent* them getting to as high a temp as the parts I'm trying to rework