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Topic: New printer - need help...

Some of you have watched my fiasco with a 7 y.o. SD2 and a new 32bit board - more on that later.  I went ahead and bought a Creatily Ender 3D pro.  Contrary to most beliefs, it's a well constructed machine, at least in comparison with the SD.  All metal construction, no plastic, all 13 drive wheels are rubber riding on sealed roller bearings, etc. Comes with all the tools needed for construction, although they are a little archaic - 5 Allen wrenches, wrench, screwdriver, small wire cutter, etc..  All small parts were bagged with an extra screw of each type enclosed.  Shipping said 10 - 14 days, I got it in 6.  Very well packaged too. Assembly instructions are typical and could be expanded on. 
My  problems are with calibration.  I used to set the SD nozzle height with a specific calling card - about 0.011" thick.  Ender specifies a sheet of paper.  They also use a soft magnetic piece of something that covers the build surface.  I will replace mine tomorrow with some 230mm sq glass.  Set at paper thickness, I managed to heat score a trail of everywhere the extruder went.  The factory preset temps - 200C ext and 60C bed heat up in 3 min or less.  Got the height set using the calling card as a start. 
I left all the SD settings in RH untouched.  Note the pic below...

http://soliforum.com/i/?s69nmRU.jpg

Got the adhesion going, at least til tomorrow when I change the print surface, But what is wrong with the filament feed?  The 4 were printed on the Win box with RH (latest ver) and the single was printed on the Mac with RH again.  I used all the original SD filament settings at first - ex: dia 1.72, multi .93, etc. each being different for each color, and each worked very well on the SD,  then after fail went to default dia 1.75 - multi 1.0.  Cannot figure out how to increase the wall thickness on RH, 2 versions of Cura and an old version of Simplify.  No matter where I set the filament settings in all 3 of the slicers, it comes out ~0.38, 0.39 wall thickness.  The black print I managed to get a little thicker by upping the flow rate to 115% in RH "Manual Control". 
P.S. if Cura 4.7 is the best they got... stick with RH!
Help greatly appreciated - sorry for being so long...

About the SD and the BigTree-Tech SKR V1.3.  I will gladly pay someone for a viable working copy of Marlin 2.0 that will make the SD work as it should....  Shoot, it's only 7 years old - just getting broke in rite... Contact me by email.

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Ender 3 Pro

2 (edited by heartless 2020-08-31 12:47:19)

Re: New printer - need help...

firstly - RH is not a slicer - it uses Cura/Slic3r/etc to do the slicing, depending on what it is set to.. RH is simply a control program.
In the slicing tab, there should be a spot that tells you what slicing program is set, and there should be a button to access the settings for that slicer.

2nd, you need to calibrate the feed rate on the printer - ie: when you ask for 100mms to be fed, it feeds 100mms 

and 3rd - calibrate for temperature - find what works best for that printer..

Looks like you have layer adhesion issues which leads me to think temp is not high enough.
and with the wall thickness being an issue (especially noticeable on the black one) there are feed rate issues (see above)
The filament settings themselves should be fine.

I am downloading the most recent version of RH as I type this so I can poke around and help further.. I personally still use an older version because it just works (1.0.6)

SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
Printit Industries Beta Tester - Horizon H1

3

Re: New printer - need help...

ok.. after a bit of screwing around so I don't lose the version I prefer..

so, when you go to the slicing tab of the latest version of RH - it has Cura Slicer set as default, but you have the option to change to either the standard Slic3r or Slic3r Prusa Edition via a drop down menu...

http://soliforum.com/i/?56Xy417.png

The "Configuration" button will open a new window to the chosen slicing program's settings, where you can make your changes to walls, infill, etc...

But before you do any of that, you need to make sure the feed steps/mm is set correctly on this printer.

SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
Printit Industries Beta Tester - Horizon H1

4

Re: New printer - need help...

Mike Lawsey of teaching tech you tube channel has a web page that goes through the whole calibration process.


https://teachingtechyt.github.io/calibration.html#intro

Soliddoodle 4 stock w glass bed------Folger Tech Prusa 2020 upgraded to and titan /aero extruder mirror bed
FT5 with titan/ E3D Aero------MP mini select w glass bed
MP Utimate maker pro-W bondtech extruder
Marlin/Repetier Host/ Slic3r and Cura

5

Re: New printer - need help...

Tin - I've already spent some time there.  It just seems that none of my settings have the wanted effect.  I will spend more time with Lawsey tho...

Heartless - I'm aware that RH is not a slicer, it was just a 'catch all' phrase.  The extrusion rate was factory set, see the pic...

http://soliforum.com/i/?gfy4ydk.jpg

You can see my green mark measured at 100mm. I did this 4 times, all with the same result.  For a factory setting, I am pretty sure I couldn't have done any better. 
I have never used the Cura version you show included with RH, I've only used Slic3r, in fact, I ought to try running it on the older version you gave me.  The Cura version that came with the printer is a stand alone, and I've upgraded it to V4.7 - and it stands alone all by itself cuz I really don't know anything bout it.   It's either really simple or really in depth.  Don't know yet.
The temps are factory preset for PLA, and ABS (aint been there yet) when you use the LCD to 'pre-heat' for PLA or ABS.  I can change them, but haven't yet.   Presets for PLA are 200C and 60C. I can adjust them in RH, and it responds correctly.  The black failure is thicker cuz I upped the flow rate to 115% in the manual control section of RH. 
Don't like this 'soft' build plate.  I'll try again tomorrow to get glass cut.
I'll try another box at 205/60 and see if that helps the adhesion.

Ender 3 Pro

6

Re: New printer - need help...

No changes, 'cept temp 205/60.  Also, wasn't really stuck to bed.

http://soliforum.com/i/?psEHg8T.jpg

Wall thickness ~.28

Ender 3 Pro

7

Re: New printer - need help...

what size nozzle??
if a 0.4 nozzle, then the 0.28 wall is way too thin.. should be 0.48

and what specific material? (brand)
200 is just a starting point.. have seen some pla that needs to go as high as 220C or more.

SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
Printit Industries Beta Tester - Horizon H1

8

Re: New printer - need help...

this MAY HELP
https://all3dp.com/2/slic3r-ender-3-profile-settings/

Soliddoodle 4 stock w glass bed------Folger Tech Prusa 2020 upgraded to and titan /aero extruder mirror bed
FT5 with titan/ E3D Aero------MP mini select w glass bed
MP Utimate maker pro-W bondtech extruder
Marlin/Repetier Host/ Slic3r and Cura

9

Re: New printer - need help...

Sorry it took me so long to respond, but... I've gone back to glass and hairspray - 65C sticks 'em down good, need a razor blade to get 'em off.  It sez it's a 0.4 nozzle.  It came with another which I will try tomorrow along with different spool of filament. Tin's link mentions a .5 nozzle.  I got a lot of measuring tools, but I can't get to .4  or 5.   They are not labeled. 
2 pics below are on glass.
#1 Old SD setting.  1.72 dia/ 0.7 multi 205C  .40 wall
http://soliforum.com/i/?cCK8gF0.jpg

#2 Ender setting.  1.75 dia/1.0 multi 207C (my setting) .32 wall
http://soliforum.com/i/?qFr2639.jpg

This is running off about 1/2 spool of orange, so the filament settings are most likely off.  I'll remeasure a different PLA roll tomorrow and have at again.  Maybe I'll get gutsy and try some ABS. 

Tin, I'll spend some time reading that link you posted, but at a quick glance they seem to use default filament setting - 1.75 multi 1.0...
The correct settings are in there - I'll find them somehow!

Ender 3 Pro

10

Re: New printer - need help...

I have a new ender 3 pro on my desk . I assembled it  need to set up tune setting . hopefully will have time the next few days. Maybe can walk you through your struggles.

Soliddoodle 4 stock w glass bed------Folger Tech Prusa 2020 upgraded to and titan /aero extruder mirror bed
FT5 with titan/ E3D Aero------MP mini select w glass bed
MP Utimate maker pro-W bondtech extruder
Marlin/Repetier Host/ Slic3r and Cura

11 (edited by heartless 2020-09-03 12:13:04)

Re: New printer - need help...

you need a caliper to measure things accurately. I can highly recommend the 6" EZCal from iGaging

and this...(see attached)

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SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
Printit Industries Beta Tester - Horizon H1

12

Re: New printer - need help...

I have 5 calipers - 2 analog and 3 digital.  None of them are capable of measuring the hole size in the nozzle.  Maybe I could check the local stores for a set of wire gauges.  As I said before, the printer came with 2 nozzles neither of which are labeled.  I have to check if the nozzle off my E3d or E3d lite will fit, I think they are female thread tho.  I don't think either extruder will fit without some major mods, that would be too easy, besides, this one heats up much quicker that either E3d did.

Ender 3 Pro

13

Re: New printer - need help...

so measure the filament that comes out of the nozzle.

Soliddoodle 4 stock w glass bed------Folger Tech Prusa 2020 upgraded to and titan /aero extruder mirror bed
FT5 with titan/ E3D Aero------MP mini select w glass bed
MP Utimate maker pro-W bondtech extruder
Marlin/Repetier Host/ Slic3r and Cura

14

Re: New printer - need help...

The size of the filament that comes out of the nozzle is .43 - .44.  Why then does it continue to print .28, .32, .38 etc walls?  I did get one to print .40 last nite, but that was set at 1.70/1.65.  Then the extruder on it's way to 'home' knocked the piece over... (fixed that)  The same filament printed quite nicely on the SD at 1.70/.63. 
Sumtin aint rite...

Ender 3 Pro

15

Re: New printer - need help...

this may be a silly question but when you do your extruder calibration are you pushing filament through the nozzle.
if you are not you need to . looks like under extrusion to me. sorry i have not dived into mine yet.  a bit busy crazy week and had the grands over last night.
Your extrusion multiplier should not be that high. it is for Fine tuning .
try tightening your extruder a little . either your extruder is slipping or you need to increase steps/mm.

Soliddoodle 4 stock w glass bed------Folger Tech Prusa 2020 upgraded to and titan /aero extruder mirror bed
FT5 with titan/ E3D Aero------MP mini select w glass bed
MP Utimate maker pro-W bondtech extruder
Marlin/Repetier Host/ Slic3r and Cura

16

Re: New printer - need help...

yup, Tin has a point.. during the extruder steps/mm calibration, it absolutely needs to be going thru the heated nozzle because of back pressure. (i know there is a comment about using the "cold extrude" command in the calibration thing, ignore it, it should be (and will be) removed)

and I have to agree, the last image absolutely looks like under extrusion and possibly not hot enough - still.

If you are using Slic3r as your slicing program, in the advanced tab, the very first setting MUST be set to 0.48 for a 0.4 nozzle (120% of nozzle diameter)

that calibration worksheet I uploaded is all information that I gathered from this forum from people like wardjr, Azerate, and a bunch of others, put together in one place, in a cohesive format. Use that to advantage! The information has been tested many times over by many that came before us.. and I have taught many new people the same methods with excellent results.

Also, use a fine point marker when marking the filament for E-step calibration. using a big fat sharpie is not going to be accurate enough for this.

for the first print, extrusion multiplier should be set to 1.. extrusion multipler is a calculated value, not guessed at. 1 is the base value to start with.
layer height settings should be 0.3 for calibration purposes.

also.. speed... no idea what you have speeds set at, but it looks like it could be trying to go too fast.

also seeing some serious moire in that last attempted print.. but going to ignore that for the moment.

SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
Printit Industries Beta Tester - Horizon H1

17

Re: New printer - need help...

I have some errands to run, then I'm going to start over from the beginning.  I am obviously doing something wrong, and I'm gonna find what it is.  The 1.65 multiplier wasn't a guess... 48/29 (measured wall thickness) = 1.65XXXXX
Back at it later. 
Thanx for the help...

Ender 3 Pro

18

Re: New printer - need help...

OK so finally have some time to set up and tune my ender 3 pro. . leveled the bed did a test print  baseline print . A Lego type brick. a little stingy on the retraction but that was my fault did not save the retraction settings. Also slight corner swell on the top layer all in all not a bad first print.
Also did a e step calibration changed the e steps from 93 to 100. did a shingle layer test cube average very close to .48 mm. currently printing a retraction tower test.

Soliddoodle 4 stock w glass bed------Folger Tech Prusa 2020 upgraded to and titan /aero extruder mirror bed
FT5 with titan/ E3D Aero------MP mini select w glass bed
MP Utimate maker pro-W bondtech extruder
Marlin/Repetier Host/ Slic3r and Cura

19

Re: New printer - need help...

It took a few hours but my printer is dialed in . I now need to do a real test print.
I forgot to turn off the bottom layer I may need to boost the z steps a bit as the cube is only 27 mm tall.

all in all not too bad results.

Soliddoodle 4 stock w glass bed------Folger Tech Prusa 2020 upgraded to and titan /aero extruder mirror bed
FT5 with titan/ E3D Aero------MP mini select w glass bed
MP Utimate maker pro-W bondtech extruder
Marlin/Repetier Host/ Slic3r and Cura

20 (edited by Tin Falcon 2020-09-05 02:14:28)

Re: New printer - need help...

The 1.65 multiplier wasn't a guess... 48/29 (measured wall thickness) = 1.65XXXXX

not saying you were guessing  but is seems you are under extruding .

anything above a 1.2 or below a 0.98 fudge factor and something else is wrong.

Soliddoodle 4 stock w glass bed------Folger Tech Prusa 2020 upgraded to and titan /aero extruder mirror bed
FT5 with titan/ E3D Aero------MP mini select w glass bed
MP Utimate maker pro-W bondtech extruder
Marlin/Repetier Host/ Slic3r and Cura

21

Re: New printer - need help...

Well, had a houseful most of the evening.  Ate a LOT of food and more importantly drank LOTS of my booze! 
I managed to run a few prints today, and I have finally decided it's not the filament settings.  I am using the original SD settings, and they all show the same damaged prints as the first 4 I pictured - .29 - .30 - .32 wall thickness, etc.  I now have 6 different colors of PLA showing the same problems.  I ran the 100mm hot extruder test - it couldn't be more perfect, exact 100mm used.  The extruded filament settings showed  close, but not the same...
1.7  .66 - Original SD settings produced an acceptable print on the SD
dia     multi  result       
1.70  1.19  .48
1.70   1.0  .46
1.72  1.04  .46/.47
1.75  1.0  .47
I could go on for a while.  It's not the filament settings, it's elsewhere. 
I'm at a loss - I've used Heartless's settings for the print settings, I have also used Lawsey's settings for the same - eg: layer = .1976 etc.  All the same. I seem to get an acceptable flow rate, but when it hits the build platform , it goes to sh!t. I can't seem to get enough filament flowing without upping the flowrate in manual control.  So the thing is quite capable of doing what I want, there is just a setting in there that I can't find that is screwing it all up.
Again, thanx for the help, and I'll find the problem...   
Have a little more Crown Royal, and maybe the problem will fix itself????

Ender 3 Pro

22 (edited by Tin Falcon 2020-09-05 12:54:23)

Re: New printer - need help...

Another dumb question are you actually slicing with the setting you set in your profile ?

It is easy to miss a setting and i have saved settings to one profile only to have an old profile selected by the slicer.

In rh slic3er there are three profiles, print settings ,filament. and printer settings.

it is important that all the important setting be correct in each and the correct

profile is selected  also save changes. I have been at this for years and i still trip over these details.

If you are sure your e steps are correct check layer thickness something is not adhering. 
check your magic number for your z layers the old sd had a us standard thread the ender has a metric lead screw.

Soliddoodle 4 stock w glass bed------Folger Tech Prusa 2020 upgraded to and titan /aero extruder mirror bed
FT5 with titan/ E3D Aero------MP mini select w glass bed
MP Utimate maker pro-W bondtech extruder
Marlin/Repetier Host/ Slic3r and Cura

23

Re: New printer - need help...

sorry, but you can NOT use the SD settings - it is NOT an SD!

Layer height on this machine should be nice even numbers - 0.3, 0.2, etc
for calibration purposes, you should be using a 0.3 layer height.

I am still not convinced that the E-steps are correct - you need to do this with a FINE line marker, not a standard sharpie. Look at the picture in my guide - notice how narrow that line is?? That is what you need to get an accurate reading.
If that line is even a little ABOVE the extruder, or below, it is not correct. the line should be dead even with the top of the extruder -
not above it, or below it.
the picture you shared earlier of the extruder calibration would suggest that it is slightly above..

this is what it should look like.. the fine line is dead even with the top of the extruder...

http://soliforum.com/i/?ICi0sbA.jpg

Have you measured the filament over a minimum of 8ft to get an average diameter??
this is required by Slic3r to make accurate calculations. if the filament diameter is not accurate, your extrusions will not be accurate.

just as an aside.. free extruded filament on my printer is 0.48-0.49 for a 0.4 nozzle.

if your nozzle really is a 0.4 but you are only getting 0.43-0.44 free extrude, that suggests that you have a partial clog.. worth checking in to.

SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
Printit Industries Beta Tester - Horizon H1

24

Re: New printer - need help...

sorry, but you can NOT use the SD settings - it is NOT an SD!

Lemme see if I got this rite - both are a 'Classic Printer' printing 1.75 Dia PLA filament at ~200C at ~0.11 distance onto a glass surface.  Other than the print surface size, there is little or no difference between the two.  In your calibration doc you set all at 0.3 layer height, 0.3 1st layer, perimeters, shells, etc. regardless of the printer maker, for initial calibration.  Based on that, you should be able to use the basic SD settings for 'print' and 'filament'.  The 'printer' settings will be different. 

Ya'all seem to forget, I have used only RH for ~7 years.  I am somewhat familiar with it. The SD settings I refer to are mostly the filament diameter/multiplier/0.4 nozzle.  An ideal 1.75/1.0/0.4 nozzle @200C should produce 0.48 on any printer.  I have 18 rolls of filament in 2 air tight containers with desiccant packages in with the filament.  All were measured and calibrated to produce viable prints.  I should be able to give you a roll of my filament along with the calibration numbers and you should be able to use it by just inputting my numbers. 
I overdid the 100mm calibration.  I nicked the filament with a razor blade at 100mm, rubbed a marker over the nick, then wiped it off, leaving me with a black line at 100mm.  I could just see it at the end. 
I have 2 new 0.4 nozzles.  1 from the new printer and 1 from the E3D.  I'm gonna use the E3D (I trust more) which will require a major z height adjustment and re-leveling as E3D's is noticeably shorter. Not something I look forward to on this machine.  I'll change nozzle and start at the beginning of the cali doc and have at it again!
So, again - thanx.  Ya'all bear with me  and I will try to get this nozzle change done today, got some running to do - folks that were here last nite decided they would be back on Monday to eat and drink whatever they missed... gotta go restock.

Ender 3 Pro

25

Re: New printer - need help...

Let’s assume you have every setting correct.  This would leave only one thing unchecked.  The extruder motor will have less load during a free air calibration.  During the print process things like back pressure and the force of dragging filament add up.  If you free air extrude and add resistance to the incoming filament (drag through your fingers) does the motor skip?  Or does the filament strip???  Neither should happen given a reasonable amount of additional drag.  If the motor skips than you need to adjust the VREF.  If the filament slips than you need to remedy that.
If none of the above happens, than you’re back to a missed setting.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions