1 Topic by Ski52

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Topic: Filament Stops Flowing

Old set-up  - Lawsy's MK5 extruder mount, factory drive gear, E3D Lite.  All worked fine for ~4 years.  Just recently, it would stop extruding, all else is still going, temps are all OK, just no filament being extruded.  Figured maybe it was time to give the E3D Lite a break.  New set-up - Dug up my original E3DV6 and got a new hobgoblin drive gear from Tim.  Finally found the modified Lawsy MK6 extruder mount, somehow managed to print it with the old set-up.  Got it all together and pretty much calibrated - extruder steps, Z height.  Went to print a calibration box, it started well, about halfway thru, the same thing happened - all is working, but no filament flow.  It's not clogged, give it a few, and force it to extrude 1, 10, 50mm and it works.   What do I need to replace now. 
My SD2 is almost 6 years old and has been pretty reliable - till now.  I have 2 major prints I would really like to get out ($$)

Thanx for any help.
Ski

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2 Reply by carl_m1968

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Re: Filament Stops Flowing

Did you run an auto PID on the hotend to calibrate the heating? Also did you select the correct thermistor in your firmware? It sounds to me the temp is dropping during your prints and causing the stoppage.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
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3 Reply by Ski52

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Re: Filament Stops Flowing

Will run a PID later.  The  E3DV6 was originally in the machine. When I installed the Lite, I never reset any of the settings from the V6.  So, essentially the V6 is running on the settings that were programmed for it into the firmware some 5 years ago.  Like I originally said - nothing has changed in the machine setup for over 5 years, the failure started 3 - 4 weeks ago.  The temp readout at the bottom of the Repetier GUI reads consistant at my 230 setting.  If I let it continue, after a short while, most of the time, the filament will start extruding again, but by then it goes everywhere.  The extruder motor doesn't stop, I have an arrow indicator on the shaft.  It has happened with 2 rolls of ABS, and 3 of PLA.   Don't forget, this identical problem has happened with 2 different extruders that are each complete with all thermistors, heating elements wires & fans, they share nothing between the two...
You are probably right about the temp, but what's causing it, and howcome it doesn't show-up anywhere??
I've neglected to look at any of the 'temp curves' offered by Repetier - might check that later too....

More as it happens...
Ski

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4 Reply by heartless

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Re: Filament Stops Flowing

definitely check out the temp curves..

do you have enough tension on the extruder gear? is it shredding the filament at all?

SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
Printit Industries Beta Tester - Horizon H1

5 Reply by Ski52

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Re: Filament Stops Flowing

Hafta to get back to ya'll.  Went to try to print another calibration peice and found the V6 is seriously clogged.  Removed the nozzle, fired it to 235 and is still wouldn't extrude anything, so I got to take it all apart.  Really busy today, I'll try to get back late this afternoon...

Ski

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6 Reply by Ski52

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Re: Filament Stops Flowing

Better late....  Think something gave up the ghost.  Took the E3DLite apart, cleaned it out, even buffed the heat block.  Put everything back together, being mindful of the wires, and reinstalled it instead of the V6.  Fired it up, all's well, set the Z height - turned on the bed heat - zilch.  Tried the extruded heat, also zilch.  At this point, even Repetier recognizes it, and let me set the Z height.  Checked all the voltages with a meter - seems good 12.2V coming into the board, the SSR for the heat bed, and the array of fans I have also.  No voltage out - at the extruder 0V, SSR from the board - 0V.  Check everything again.  Turn it on, the fans power up and right down again.  Disconnect the extruder in it's entirety - still the same, fans power up and right down. The board green light is lit throughout all of this. Think I toasted the mama board, but no smoke, spark or burnt oder anywhere - where do I look now before I start asking what board to buy?
Thanx for any help.
Ski

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7 Reply by carl_m1968

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Re: Filament Stops Flowing

see if it powers  up with nothing connected.  Pull the stepper drivers if you can. See what the minimum it takes plugged in to power. Could even be a bad supply that does under load.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

8 Reply by Ski52

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Re: Filament Stops Flowing

No removeable drivers, I have the antique Solidoodle LLC Motherboard Rev E.  Everything disconnected cept the MB and 2 fans.  Powered the fans for maybe 5 seconds then stop.  The green lite still lit on the MB and the bank of LED's still on.  Disconnected SSR and extruders are clean and ready, both laying on the desk.

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9 Reply by carl_m1968

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Re: Filament Stops Flowing

So are you seeing any errors or alarms in the host terminal box?

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

10 Reply by Ski52

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Re: Filament Stops Flowing

No messaages anywhere.  Can't access the printer - it won't boot.  The fans that run all the time power is applied start up and shut down all in about 5 seconds.  The only thing connected to power is the MB and 2 fans.  Everything else is disconnected or out of the machine.

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11 Reply by carl_m1968

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Re: Filament Stops Flowing

Ski52 wrote:

No messaages anywhere.  Can't access the printer - it won't boot.  The fans that run all the time power is applied start up and shut down all in about 5 seconds.  The only thing connected to power is the MB and 2 fans.  Everything else is disconnected or out of the machine.

Are those Fans supposed to come on and stay on or are the firmware controlled? Sounds to me like you have a power supply dropping out although you do say the LED on the board is always on. So that leaves a bad board.

If you have a second power supply you could still try it. It could be dropping out under load but not fully shutting sown so the board will stay powered.

If you have everything disconnected from power except the controller then logic would dictate the controller is the issue.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

12 Reply by Ski52

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Re: Filament Stops Flowing

The fans come on as soon as power is applied.  Fans = 2 over the MB, 1 on the base of the X motor, the Y motor, the extruder motor and a small one on the E3D.  Took a couple of pics that may show what I got. The first one is kinda busy -

http://soliforum.com/i/?oTd6eWg.jpg

The MB is getting power, but is only providing it to certain things.

http://soliforum.com/i/?vqNDX9j.jpg

And last the 2 extruders...

http://soliforum.com/i/?6eJo7CR.jpg

I don't know if this 'splains anything or not.
Looked at Amazon, they have ~25 boards for 3D printers for under 50.00, but I have no idea which one as I'm working essentially with an antique here...

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13 Reply by Ski52

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Re: Filament Stops Flowing

Ya know, now that I look at it, the fan bank should be consistantly powered, at least the 2 fans over the MB.  They come straight off the PS.  Maybe a new PS is in order...  But while the fans don't work, there is 12 VDC at the power points????

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14 Reply by carl_m1968

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Re: Filament Stops Flowing

A power supply if bad can put out voltage but very little current.  It is the current that makes stuff work, not voltage If you add up the current of what is working it could be an amp or two. Those fans are usually about a quarter amp each. The LEDs are probably about a half amp. The board is about a quarter amp so you could be pulling 2 to 3 ramps from the supply and it just can no longer do it. They do go bad over time. Especially  if used often or constantly. I repair telecom rectifiers which are essentially power supplies like our printers use. I see units come back sometimes within a year with other issues it did not have last time. Of course our printer supplies get much less abuse but will go bad just the same.

As for a board that is really the only thing that makes one printer different from another. They hardware is all the same so you could use any board you want, it's up to you and your budget.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

15 Reply by heartless

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Re: Filament Stops Flowing

highly recommend the Super Night power supply from PrintIt Industries

for a budget friendly, easy to set up board, take a look at the MKS Gen 1.4 - should even be able to use the existing wiring connectors on it.
board itself should be around $35 (give or take) and you will need to add stepper drivers  - personal choice would be 4988s for X, Y & Z, and an 8825 for E - but you get whatever you like.

SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
Printit Industries Beta Tester - Horizon H1

16 Reply by Ski52

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Re: Filament Stops Flowing

Had a nice speil going, just got bumped off. I'll try again. 
Heartless - the end of the 120VAC is plugged into a SuperNight PS I purchased on the recmendation of what is now some of the owners of PrintIt. It's well over 4 years old. - Probably wore out...

Carl - You are probably right, although I show 12+VDC at numerous places, there is probably little or no amperage. 

So....... I'm off to find the least expensive SuperNight 360W PS.  I'll start there.  I have had a good time with the SD, and just can't let it go, taught me a LOT. 

I'll be back in a few days with a new PS and prob more probs...

Thanx
Ski

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17 Reply by Ski52

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Re: Filament Stops Flowing

Got the PS delivered yesterday.  Can't fault Amazon.  SuperNight 360 - 19.95, free 2 day shipping, ordered it Tues eve late, got it yesterday bu USPS.  Will try to install it today.  Got lots to do before it rains.  It has rained here every day for the last month or better...

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18 Reply by Ski52

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Re: Filament Stops Flowing

Well, I'm baaaack.  Sorry it took me a week, but... both cars are running, 2 of 3 riding mowers are running - anyone want a 42in cut 17.5HP John Deere mower - needs some wires - FREE.  Also - anyone have use for a slightly used SuperNight PS?

The fans stay running, but that is about it.  RH sees and 'connects' to the SD, but nothing works - no movement X, Y or Z, no heating, in fact, the extruder powers on for less that 3 seconds and powers off.  The bed does nothing for heat...  I took a screen shot if someone can figure anything from that.  It throws a couple of errors at boot, but I can't decipher them.  I'm back to I think the MB is just taking up space. 
Any help greatly appreciated
Thanx
Ski

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19 Reply by heartless

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Re: Filament Stops Flowing

lets see the screen shot(s)

If you can screen grab the log from RH when trying to boot it up that would be great

SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
Printit Industries Beta Tester - Horizon H1

20 Reply by Ski52

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Re: Filament Stops Flowing

Don't know if you can enlarge it enough to see, if not LMK and I'll do something different.

http://soliforum.com/i/?BFup7tS.jpg

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21 Reply by heartless

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Re: Filament Stops Flowing

ok, the power coming thru the board is not enough.. that is what the "brown out reset" is about, and this is why you cant do anything with it.

this is definitely a board issue - most likely the USB chip, since that is how things run to/from RH.
the USB is what died on my SD4 way back when, too..

I, personally, went with Rumba for board replacement, but there are many other options out there. far more now than there were when I did mine 4 years ago.

SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
Printit Industries Beta Tester - Horizon H1

22 Reply by Ski52

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Re: Filament Stops Flowing

Do most of the good replacement boards use the same connectors for the X, Y, Z & E?  I'd hate to start figuring out and replacing connectors.  Do you still recommend Rumba or equivelient?  Once I get the correct parts, I'm going to strip it and have my son powder coat the frame.  I want to put new bearings etc, just do a general rebuild.  Then I'm gonna inquire about a Delta style kit.....  soon.

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23 Reply by heartless

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Re: Filament Stops Flowing

different boards will have different connectors - some may be compatible, some wont be.. do your homework before deciding.

My Rumbas (two of them) are still going strong - they are the genuine article tho, not knockoffs.
One did have a hiccup with the USB chip - apparently they got a bad batch back then - but that has long since been sorted out.
the connectors from the printrboard are not compatible with Rumba - however, for the motors, you don't even need connectors - they have screw terminals available. you would only need to worry about endstops and thermistors.

the only one I personally know of that might be compatible with the printrboard connectors would be the MKS Gen1.4 - it is also an all in one Ramps derivative, like the Rumba is, but not quite as robust... Not a bad board, but of the 2, I would still prefer a genuine Rumba

SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
Printit Industries Beta Tester - Horizon H1

24 Reply by Tin Falcon

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Re: Filament Stops Flowing

You may also want to consider a Rambo board

https://ultimachine.com/

Soliddoodle 4 stock w glass bed------Folger Tech Prusa 2020 upgraded to and titan /aero extruder mirror bed
FT5 with titan/ E3D Aero------MP mini select w glass bed
MP Utimate maker pro-W bondtech extruder
Marlin/Repetier Host/ Slic3r and Cura

25 Reply by Ski52

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Re: Filament Stops Flowing

Well, a month later, I'm back.  I bought a board, been sitting on the desk for 3 weeks.  It uses different connectors than the SD board - JST vs JST XH.  So I bought a kit, hafta rewire the connectors.  Now comes the problem.  The  pin outs on the new board are labeled 1B 1A 2A 2B (in that order)with the common (square solder pad) under the 1B.  The SD has no labels, but the common lug is in position 4.  I have attached a couple of pics in the hopes that someone can identify the pin outs and/or wire colors.

http://soliforum.com/i/?5IVmYEa.jpghttp://soliforum.com/i/?PtMvJVi.jpg

Any help here is greatly appreciated...

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