26 Reply by carl_m1968 (edited by carl_m1968 2019-06-10 15:56:03)

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Re: OOOhh my.

ESOCHI wrote:

It's Monday and I'm back in the office for another few rounds!

2cm cube printed with correct measurements except Z was 1mm off, due to the first few layers not leaving the bed. After it started lifting everything was perfectly dialed in.

Carl, I'm in agreeance that a manual calibration of the extruder would be ideal. I have no clue if that can even be done on the Workbench, as the screw I assume would be a setscrew didn't allow the extruder to move. I'm searching for help on that but haven't found anything yet. Maybe knowack would know as they have swapped parts on theirs.

I'm getting much more used to messing with G-code now, and I get what you meant by "Start Gcode"

I had just given you the first 150 lines but I'm now editing and saving and testing the actual "start" section within the Cura settings. I've been trying to add a full mm to the Z absolute positioning, because it most definitely is that.

My feed rates and extrusion rates are 100% on point, the distance between layers is perfect, the temperatures are set nominally.

This thing is awesome aside from the last gremlin.

Allow me to re-post that start code and show what I've been trying. I didn't do all of these at once, but rather 1 by 1

; Default start code
G28 ; Home extruder
G1 Z15 F{Z_TRAVEL_SPEED}
M107 ; Turn off fan

G28 X0 Y0 ;home X and Y
G29 ;probe bed
G1 Z+/-1 F200 ; I want to add this somewhere so that it changes the absolute coord to what I need
G90; set absolute coordinates
G92 E0; reset extruder distance
G1 Z4 F300 ;move platform down 5mm EDITED TO 4 no difference here didn't work
G1 X145 Y145 F3000 ; move to back right corner

G1 Z1 F200 ; TESTING HERE RIGHT NOW
G90 ; Absolute positioning (redundant, do I need 2 G90s? this was originally here)
M82 ; Extruder in absolute mode
{IF_BED}M190 S{BED}
; Activate all used extruder
{IF_EXT0}M104 T0 S{TEMP0}
G92 E0 ; Reset extruder position
; Wait for all used extruders to reach temperature
{IF_EXT0}M109 T0 S{TEMP0}


Here is the issue I see.

;Generated with Cura_SteamEngine 15.01
; Default start code
G28 ; Home extruder
G1 Z15 F100
M107 ; Turn off fan
G90 ; Absolute positioning
M82 ; Extruder in absolute mode
M190 S20
; Activate all used extruder
M104 T0 S195
G92 E0 ; Reset extruder position
; Wait for all used extruders to reach temperature
M109 T0 S195
;Layer count: 100
;LAYER:0
M107

G28 X0 Y0 ;home X and Y
G29 ;probe bed
G90; set absolute coordinates
G92 E0; reset extruder distance
G1 Z5 F300 ;move platform down 5mm
G1 X145 Y145 F3000 ; move to back right corner

G0 F6600 X130.316 Y243.079 Z0.200
;TYPE:SKIRT
G1 F3000 X161.516 Y243.079 E1.03772
G1 X161.516 Y274.279 E2.07543
G1 X138.516 Y274.279 E2.84042
G1 X138.516 Y285.939 E3.22823
G1 X118.656 Y285.939 E3.88877
G1 X118.656 Y266.079 E4.54932

The part in red is the very beginning of your print where the skirt is formed. This line will move the extruder back to .2 no matter what your START gcode says. Instead of adding the offset to your START gcode, you need to add the offset there so that the nozzle moves to the position you want it to be in. You need to add or take a few away from that value.

If that is actually part of your  START gcode then it is where you need to be making the changes at. If it is not then you need to see what is generating this value and change it or else you will have to manually edit each file before your send it to the printer.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

27 Reply by ESOCHI

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Re: OOOhh my.

You're absolutely right about the red line. I have that fixed from within the config now, and I'm encountering one final demon.

That overextrusion you mentioned? Yeah its totally a thing. But ONLY on the first layer. Everything else prints quite nicely.

I've done what must be a dozen or so tests today, and I'm still searching but coming to the conclusion that my version of Cura doesn't have the setting to modify JUST the first layer's flow or feedrate. It does have an overlap setting, but that just changes the distance between lines.

Switching to Slic3r and starting from scratch.

28 Reply by carl_m1968

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Re: OOOhh my.

You should not need to modify the flow rate for the first layer only. The reason most people first layer looks fatter than the rest is because it is squished to half the size of the regular layers. This is done by the bed leveling or the offset in your case since the bed cannot be leveled manually. The distance between the nozzle and the bed should ideally be half of your desire layer height. So if your layer is at to .2 the you need gap of .1 or .15 at the most between the bed and nozzle.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

29 Reply by heartless

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Re: OOOhh my.

ok, STOP. You are getting WAY ahead of yourself here.

Time to step back and get back to the basics.

you NEED to MANUALLY adjust the bed level to at least get it close to where it needs to be before any amount of bed probing & g-code tweaking will actually help. Currently your bed is WAY too close to the nozzles.
There are screws that adjust the bed height and where Z stop is engaged, USE THEM to properly adjust the bed level to the point that a piece of paper just barely slips under the nozzle(s) anywhere on the bed.

To calibrate the feed rate, you do NOT need to touch any screws - unless something is loose... and yes, it is possible to do on ANY printer. Some are easier than others, and an SD of any model should not be that difficult.
calibrating the feed rate means when you ask the machine to feed 100mms of filament into the hot end, it feeds EXACTLY 100mms of filament into the hotend. Not 103, not 97 - 100, period.

take a read through these..
https://northwoods3d.weebly.com/blog/fi … ion-part-1
https://northwoods3d.weebly.com/blog/-f … coming-out

And yes, you should be able to accomplish the same things with Cura. Maybe not in the exact same way as with Slic3r, but you should be able to figure out the equivalent settings.

calibrating the flow rate is another step that should be taken before you go messing around with g-code to tweak all sorts of things.

Like many here, I have multiple printers -my collection includes three Solidoodle 4s, a Folgertech FT-5 (large format kit) and a PrintIt Industries Horizon. Out of all of these, only the Horizon has any sort of auto bed leveling on it - and is completely different than most "auto leveling" setups.

the ONLY start g-code I use is the G28 command - that is it.
I do not use all this fancy crap that is totally unnecessary. Don't need it, don't want it.
I see no reason to make things more complicated when simple works just fine.

Bed leveling is done manually - when I need to.. which is maybe once a month or so. Granted, it took a little while to get to this point - bed leveling used to be a daily thing, then weekly - now it is when I feel it needs it - which is not that often since it has been dialed in well.

Learning to do things manually and do them correctly will get you a whole lot further in the long run. Once you have the manual procedures down, then, and only then, should you play with the "fancy" stuff. If you don't have things set up correctly to start with, the probe does you absolutely no good.

SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
Printit Industries Beta Tester - Horizon H1

30 Reply by ESOCHI

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Re: OOOhh my.

Thanks for all the feedback! I won't be testing today but I will link y'all to pictures from my last few rounds.

Noteworthy point, if the bottom layer extrudes anything higher than the lvl it moves at my second extruder will bump it and mess stuff up. Hence the small 1cm cubes I'm testing with.

Imgur Link

Regards,
ESOCHI

31 Reply by heartless

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Re: OOOhh my.

ESOCHI wrote:

Thanks for all the feedback! I won't be testing today but I will link y'all to pictures from my last few rounds.

Noteworthy point, if the bottom layer extrudes anything higher than the lvl it moves at my second extruder will bump it and mess stuff up. Hence the small 1cm cubes I'm testing with.

Regards,
ESOCHI

sounds like the second head is lower than the first one. that will need to be corrected before you go much further.
for that, knowack can probably provide more help than I can - none of mine are dual head machines.

SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
Printit Industries Beta Tester - Horizon H1

32 Reply by ESOCHI

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Re: OOOhh my.

Alright folks, I've been quiet for a while but don't think that means I'm not progressing!

Heartless, I've followed both links and made sure everything was on point. Definitely needed to do that.

The second head IS just a tiny bit lower than the first, and I'll probably either see if I can use that one as default or adjust it up a bit.

I'm getting better at changing the EEPROM and dealing with bed leveling.
I've also simplified the start G-code and added an anchor to deal with the PLA leaking out. Seems to work better than just a skirt.
I'm trying to get away from the auto-bed-level feature and just run with manual leveling as needed.

Thank you to everyone who helped out! I greatly appreciate it!

I just wrapped up my first big print and I have to say, I'm quite happy with the results!

Imgur Link: Solidoodle Workbench Progress!

Regards,
ESOCHI

33 Reply by Tin Falcon

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Re: OOOhh my.

if the nozzles are close then just adjust one with some silicon carbide paper.

Soliddoodle 4 stock w glass bed------Folger Tech Prusa 2020 upgraded to and titan /aero extruder mirror bed
FT5 with titan/ E3D Aero------MP mini select w glass bed
MP Utimate maker pro-W bondtech extruder
Marlin/Repetier Host/ Slic3r and Cura

34 Reply by heartless

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Re: OOOhh my.

Congrats on getting it up and running!

SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
Printit Industries Beta Tester - Horizon H1

35 Reply by ESOCHI (edited by ESOCHI 2019-11-07 14:48:54)

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Re: OOOhh my.

I don't normally bump old threads but this time I have a good reason.

If you just read the beginning of this thread you'll know that I was struggling with first layer issues. Specifically I was getting elephants foot as well as over/under extrusion issues. Here is what I've learned.

First of all, calibrating those e steps is crucial. If you ask for 100mm you damn sure better be getting 100mm.
Second of all, bed leveling is crucial. Find yourself a bed level test print or something and if need be get an upgraded print surface and use hairspray or glue stick if your prints refuse to lay quietly.

FINALLY, YOU MUST COMPENSATE FOR BACKLASH!
All caps, you say? Well, yes, I'm yelling this part.

With the Solidoodle Workbench, I had .50mm of slack in the Z axis. What this means is that when then printer moves in to make its first print it raises the bed to meet the nozzle and all is right with the world. The first layer will print fine if you've done the above steps. HOWEVER, when the second layer hits, the printer will drop the bed .2mm (or whatever you have it set to) but in reality IT WILL BE USING UP THAT .5MM OF SLACK! This means for the 2nd, and 3rd later the bed won't move down AT ALL! The 4th layer will see a .1mm movement and from then on all is corrrect.

MY FIX: Custom Start G-code (although anti-backlash nuts or other solutions will also work)

G28 ;Home
G1 Z10.0 F6000 ;Move the platform down 10mm
;Prime the extruder
G92 E0
G1 F200 E3
G92 E0
G1 X30 Y30 Z0 ;I put this here to bring the bed back down to Z0 and dodge the clip holding the bed on.
G1 Z0.50 ;backlash compensation
G92 Z0 ;reset Z to "0"

Regards,
ESOCHI