First-Time Poster Noob Seeks Experienced Lurker with Answers - 3D P. (Page 1 of 2)

gonna need way more money for down payment on a 3D printer that makes metal tools etc. auto bed level is about as needed as an UPS in places with maybe 1 power outage a year. biggest obstacle is you are gonna need at least 2 years learning curve and lots of time for both web searching for that instructions part which is not in an book/class and fiddling with the 3D printer for many hours at a time which you cant just up and leave during printing when the alarm bell rings as there is no true plug and play/turn key machine or pause button. sounds like you want a half million dollar industrial 3D printer that fits in a part time home budget. good luck in maybe 10+ years. you have to bring computer program ability and tools needed for this tech plus great learning skills and patience to the game in this Tech still ATM. browse archives plus search Youtube/web for new developments and questions trying to narrow down list of what you need to start then start small/simple adding as you learn as this is a high tech field and like the rest of high tech devices upgrades are at least annual and often more affordable after 1st release. also dont buy all the sales hipe on videos as some are short lived companies for a reason. I started 6 years ago and this is the approach I had. just not as excited now as at 1st and I was retired so Time was not the issue funds mostly were. but I still have the equipment and programs & over 10k files but print times are way longer than you expect and not worth it on most items available retail. and keep safety 1st in mind always as much of this tech has all kinds of safety concerns.

1. Yes, heated bed is a good option to have.
2. Better get used to using metric... the most common size is 200x200mm (roughly 8x8) with varying heights
3. not really necessary if you learn to level the bed correctly. adds unnecessary complications to the running of the machine
4. Also a good idea, but make sure it is of a quality brand - Chinese knock-offs abound.
5. "independent" heads are not a common, everyday thing, and those printers that do have them are meant to print multiples of the exact same thing in one go. They are also typically quite large (space wise)
6. You will still need a computer to do the slicing and prep work, but most machines come with (or can have added to them) at the very least an LCD with SD card reader for the running of the print job. Downloading (from the net) at the machine itself is not ideal. many files downloaded from places like Thingiverse need repair work before they are printable.
7. Dual extruders complicate things a fair bit. Not really necessary, but they are an option if you want to print with 2 colors/materials on the same job (MUCH larger learning curve to learn how to use them)
8. Lots! Reliability, structural integrity, parts availability, easy of working on it... Is the machine proprietary? meaning are you locked into using ONLY their materials, parts and supplies? Or is it Open Source? meaning you can tweak, change, use any materials you want, etc...
9. Printing "metal" - not really feasible on a "hobby" machine. Metal "printing" is seriously expensive.
Yes, There are metal infused materials - with one outstanding company that makes a product that can be sintered in a kiln to produce a solid metal object, BUT, the material is not cheap, and a kiln is not cheap either, so unless you have access to a kiln capable of the job required, get the metal printing idea out of your head.
As for the plastics, you need to take the time to learn about the different materials available, the properties of each, and how they would apply to what you want to print. Different materials are suitable for different things.
Also - what is your definition of "non-toxic"? This means different things to different people. I have used ABS, PLA, PETg, ASA, Nylon, PC & TPU in my printers, and I would not consider any of them "toxic" as far as printing with them go. But, I would not use any of them for food related use.

Basically the same things pretty much all of us do.
Again - get the "metal" idea out of your head unless you have the right resources available to you.

1. I can say without a doubt that building one is an extremely satisfying experience. I have built 3 now, each one a different style, and enjoyed the process for each and every one of them. I have also seriously modified a couple of others.
2. LOL - "open a box and start printing" is not something that is going to happen. I don't care what printer you buy - there are going to be things that need to happen before you can actually start printing successfully. Calibrations. Adjustments. Learning how the machine operates in general.

1. the software you choose to use will partially depend on the printer you buy - proprietary machines usually come with their own software packages. Open source machines will give you greater flexibility in what you choose to use.
2. the software package itself is not what determines how well things are printed. It is all in the calibration of the machine and the settings used within the software. and this is something that will be unique to every machine. My settings will not necessarily give you the same results that I get. You have to figure out what works for your machine specifically. This is part of the learning curve.

1-3. I will tell you this - the greater majority of my printers are in the $500 or less range. Do a search for some of my posts here and you will see the kind of prints I can produce, or check out my fb page: https://www.facebook.com/northwoods3d/
Money spent on the initial purchase does not necessarily equate with quality of output. Learning how to set up a machine properly, calibrate it, and learning to use the chosen software effectively will generate much better results than throwing money at things unnecessarily.

There really are no real "online courses" for 3d printing.. you can learn a lot just from reading past posts in forums like this one (this one being the best, of course. )
The best way to learn this is "hands on" experience, lots of reading, and asking questions specific to your needs. There are a few general guidelines to follow, but each machine will present its own unique challenges. Even 2 machines of the same brand/type will present slightly different challenges.

One last comment.. n2ri said "at least 2 yrs learning curve"...
Bupkis.. I started out in March of 2015 with a used Solidoodle 4. It did take me several months of intensive reading, research and testing and tweaking, but I was printing nice quality stuff in less than 6 months. In that first year, I had basically rebuilt the initial printer with better quality parts, and built not just 1, not 2, but THREE kit printers - all successfully, thank you very much.

Learning curves are different for everyone. It is more about how determined you are to learn it (I was VERY determined) and how much time you are willing to invest in learning it. It also helps to have a good teacher/mentor (thank you wardjr!)

Always happy to help

in reference to mr he:

IMHO while some $200 printers are ok and do a decent job. Ie mono price mini select and the mini delta are decent printers that are great for learning the print bed is a bit small but it also means less wasted material. spend $400 on an ultimate  open box you get a much more solid platform and in my experience solid experience. Still mod able and repairable . again your choice.

The cnc router is a different learning curve and IMHO needs to be a separate machine and who wants chips in there bearings and rails.  I have seen custom built combos that work print head cnc head and laser head. But i am not a fan of combo machines .

A rule of thumb I have heard is a roll of filament lasts a month. Again this will vary with  number of prints how much time spent printing . Size of nozzle etc. good extrudes can cost around $100 +- and a low cost printer may need upgrades. I pay $20-25 a roll for everyday filament specialty stuff is more. And starting out you may need tools. IMHO $100 a month may be a bit over the top. but again something to consider.

This is very much an estimate , based of 30 parts a month. Parts of average size whatever that is. I have been printing for 4 years I can probably count empty spools on one hand. On the other hand the hovlin example you get two violins from a spool with no misprints. so two large items. And IIRC your printer collection is a bit larger than mine. So you may spend $100 a month on filament.
LOL it is all good
Tin

1.  I won't be printing in metal.Wise choice my friend.
2.  I will most likely start out with a smaller, less expensive machine.IMHO also a wise choice  . But beware there is a lot of cheap Chinese junk on the market not worth the shipping price . in many cases the "manufactures assembles a kit with no R & D no verification of actualy building it and no support.. Also IMHO opinion do Not purchase a Davinci Big mistake.
3.  That I will need to understand a lot more about 3-D printing before I settle on a first machine.
Do your homework but do not overthink the decisions. Most of your learning curve will be software. As far as the hardware you will need to let the printer teach you what it needs . the only way to really learn and understand is to jump in and do.
In my experience Take e good hard look at the Monoprice ultimate. watch reviews and come to to own conclusion.
some You tube channels thes guys focus on 3d printing and know there stuff. And all reviews can not be totally trusted as the manufaturers have there tricks. Hand picked machines . tested at the factory before being sent for review etc. Proto types sent in the name of production machines etc.
cnc kitchen
makers muse
3d printing nerd
3d printing professor
Tom Sanladerer (Tom's Guide)

4.  That I like open source software - something I hadn't even considered - but I'm an Android guy to begin with, so this fits inline with my preference. OS software is great download it is it like it support it.
5.  That I need to revisit some of my "must haves," etc.  You were mostly on target. IMHO stick with a single extruder to learn with  then explore other options.
6.  That I'll need to boil all of these responses down to see if I understand it, then I'll be able to restate my position - and maybe come off as a little better informed.

imho you did fine  like i said you did some homework , came up with a wish list and asked for advice.

Tim falcon

Take your time no rush.
there is a work neighbor the guy has a business across the lot. I have been working with him trying to figure out a printer that will work for him. He is a fire fighter in North Jersey  a lieutenant.
I think he is going to make a visit to the Printed solid show room before making  decision. I helps to see various 3d priters at work before deciding.
Just remember the only difference between a working 3d printer an an expensive paperweight is knowledge of operations.

And I ask again where are you located. No pressure to answer if you need privacy but it help us help you get local help.

check out this link then https://bridgewire.org/
https://www.makexyz.com/printer/ashleyhennefer
there may be other members her in the area??

indeed, in person contact is quite valuable!
But when none is available, for poor fools like me that live in the middle of nowhere, forums like this one can be a fantastic resource.

and the group here - for the most part - are a great bunch of people willing to help if they can.

My 2 year learning curve was based on expectations of end result versus reality. dont set the bar too high at 1st based on hipe heard online to avoid disapointment

A couple of afterthoughts. No printer will do it all that is why many of us have several. 
Do your homework to enable a wise decision . but there comes a time one must put the research aside buy a printer and really start learning. Also feel free to call Matt or Dave  at printed solid tell him where you are at and pick his brain.
And please keep us posted on your journey .  You are a part of this forum now like it or not LOL

Tin

Based on the photos and description of the bridge wire maker space they have an older original maker bot and a home brew shop built machine.
Like i said for you i would recommend the or rather suggest a monoprice  Ultimate maker open box. I say suggest because i do not like to make recommendations. there are too many options out there and i want no one disappointed because of my advice.  A brand new one is IIRC $ 699. and they do offer extended warantees if that is important but you have to ship the whole machine to California for factory service. IMHO it is a very solid well built machine for the money. it meets most of your wish lit. it is a single print head. not otuch screen but on board control 200 mm cube print area.
You can go with a mini for half the price but it is more or less half the machine smaller print area and the system is a bit flexible and the machine is open and iirc closed source.  IMHO more aof a toy / kids printer. 

In  the end your dime or should i say dollar so you need to be happy with the decision..And you will not no what printing is about until you try it and the maker space can help you learn the software make a few prints and designs before you invest in your own . Tin