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Topic: Solidoodle 4 - to up grade or not to upgrade

So I've had a Solidoodle 4 for a little over 3 years... it has worked OK I guess, but it is a very finicky beast. I understand 3-D printing is more an art than a science, but this thing is kind of a PITA. I've designed and printed some pretty useful things, but over all I've probably thrown more plastic (PLA and ABS) in the trash than I've actually kept, because of bad prints. I recently upgraded to Lawsy's carriages and new hardened guide rods, and just built some cable chains and rewired the thing to prevent a lot of problems that were caused by cables dragging over the build plate and WIP. Also put a cooling fan on the X-motor, as it got too hot to touch during builds. The movement seems really good and repeatable, and I'm in the process of designing and building a vertical guide rod to stop the end of the build plate from wobbling so much when the head changes direction.
The biggest problem, which causes the most waste, is feeding filament... more often than not, the filament will stop feeding in the middle of a print, or will feed poorly, and I'll get what looks like a "furry" surface where the filament just doesn't feed consistently. I've cleaned the extruder really well, made sure the feed system works, and when printing, the brim looks beautiful, nice and smooth and consistent feeding, and even the outline of the part where the extruder puts down the perimeter of the part looks great, but the middle of the thing is terrible inconsistent. I've considered that perhaps SlicR isn't doing a good job, but really I can see lots of filament "chips" and dust around the feed mechanism, where it obviously isn't feeding well. I think the next mod I need to do is an E3D hot end and Bowden extruder, as well as a cooling fan for the WIP, but My dilemma is this:
When a new printer of a similar size and apparently much better quality can be had for less than $200 like this Anet A8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFBWh8tiTZg

...or this Creality CR10 for less than $500 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0i-Mv6Td1H4

...is it really worth putting any more money into this Solidoodle?

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Re: Solidoodle 4 - to up grade or not to upgrade

If you're running the stock extruder, and the filament is getting stripped by the drive gear(are there little pieces of filament all over the gear?) that could be causing your inconsistent issues. Also, if your running the stock extruder, the teeth on the drive gear might be worn down enough that it isn't gripping the filament well enough to push it through.

FuseBox 1.5 CoreXY - e3dv6 - Graphic Smart Display
Solidoodle 2 - e3dv6 - Hobb Goblin - e3d Titan - lawsy carriages - Direct Drive Y Axis - T8 Z axis - OctoPi

3 (edited by RCFerguson 2017-03-10 18:33:13)

Re: Solidoodle 4 - to up grade or not to upgrade

Stock extruder and hot-end. Yes, definitely bits of filament all over drive gear... it has had this problem since day one. I blow off the chips with a can of air periodically, and occasionally use a stiff brush to clean out the teeth, but honestly, it has done this from day one, so I hesitate to think the gear teeth are worn. Sometimes I'll come back to the printer to see it printing nothing in mid-air, and when I pull the filament out there is a big divot where the drive gear has worn away the filament. I guess I could try a new drive gear and a stronger spring to see if that helps... but it goes back to my question of whether or not it is worth it to throw more money at this thing. I thought maybe the filament was the problem, as it was an older roll, but I replaced it with a brand new roll fresh out of the sealed bag with dessicant, and it did the same thing.
Seems like the printer has good days and bad days. Some days it prints like a champ, other days I can't get a good print to save my life. As for my earlier comment about wasting a lot of filament, if I am to be honest about it I'd say I've thrown away 10 pounds of filament from bad prints for every pound that yields a good print.

I've been looking at some videos on youtube that talk about recalibrating the extruder... maybe I'll take a look at that over the weekend. And if I was to get a new extruder gear, is it a Mark 7 or Mark 8?  Those are the 2 styles I'm seeing on Amazon.

4 (edited by jagowilson 2017-03-10 19:42:11)

Re: Solidoodle 4 - to up grade or not to upgrade

If you want to get the most of the machine, I strongly recommend spending the cash to upgrade the HotEnd to a Lite6 or v6 from E3D. Additionally, I recommend replacing the extruder gear with an E3D Hobb Goblin. Lots of us on this forum use this combination because it is a far more consistent experience. Using the stock HotEnd, extruder and gear, your frustrations will never really end with regards to extrusion. It's the best set of upgrades you could possibly make to your machine.

Regarding your overall question - your Solidoodle is actually just as mechanically capable as the machines you linked, if not more so after your upgrade to the Lawsy set of carriages. The frustrations you're experiencing now are simply a result of Solidoodle cutting corners to save on cost. Those cheap machines are tempting, but bear in mind machining capability hasn't had some dramatic improvement in the last two years. Those machines just cut costs in more ingenious ways than Solidoodle. I can almost guarantee any machine under $1000 is going to require modification to make it production quality.

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Re: Solidoodle 4 - to up grade or not to upgrade

What Jagowilson said.

I put an E3Dv6 and HobbGoblin on my SD4 (among other upgrades), and so far, can print any filament from PET-G to NinjaFlex.  My SD4's print quality is better than the vast majority of the stuff I see on Thingiverse.

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Re: Solidoodle 4 - to up grade or not to upgrade

Fair enough, I'll make some more upgrades.... I thought I'd start by installing the latest version of Repetier Host. I designed a 20x20x20mm calibration cube with .3mm walls, and sliced it with the "Spiral Vase" option. When it printed, the brim was very poorly defined, lots of skipping of filament, but the walls of the cube were beautiful... nice and straight and uniform. I think the new carriages and guide rods really helped with this. The walls of the cube are .59mm thick though, so maybe I need to play with the feed rate settings some, as it seems there is too much filament being fed. I'll do the extruder calibration exercise. Do I need to edit the firmware to adjust this, or can I just depend on Repetier Host feedrate multiplyer? Also, with the new software, the printer won't go to the park position at the end of the print, even though I have checked the box in the Repetier settings to do so. Is there something I'm missing?
I've ordered some new feed gears, we'll see if that helps. I'll also play with the print speeds... I suspect there may be an issue there too.
Thanks for the input.
http://soliforum.com/i/?xN55WCe.jpg

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Re: Solidoodle 4 - to up grade or not to upgrade

http://soliforum.com/i/?mmAirkN.jpg

Sd4 #9080 with a glass bed. E3d chimera duel extruder. Paste extruder , duet wifi.
Lawsy carriages. linear bearings. Y axis direct drive, Kinect scanner
SD4#8188 glass bed, lawsly carriages, E3d v6, octoprint http://www.ustream.tv/channel/hotrod96z28
Filastruder/filawinder, Custom Delta 300mm x 600mm

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Re: Solidoodle 4 - to up grade or not to upgrade

another vote for the E3D here..
I have two SD4s, both completely upgraded to Lawsy carriages, E3D v6 hotends and Hale heatbeds... LOVE them! They are my workhorse printers without a doubt.

for calibration it is more about the settings used than it is the model... you can use a solid cube, set slic3r to 1 perimeter, 1-2 bottom layers, 0 top and 0 infill and actually get more accurate results than using a specially designed model

for proper calibrations you may want to take a read through these.. I gathered up all of the information I had gleaned from this forum in various places , and put it together in a couple of blog posts...

Part one: http://northwoods3d.weebly.com/blog/fil … ion-part-1

Part two: http://northwoods3d.weebly.com/blog/-fl … coming-out

SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
Printit Industries Beta Tester - Horizon H1

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Re: Solidoodle 4 - to up grade or not to upgrade

I have also installed a new bed heater and power supply from PrintIt Industries. 

I'm a big believer of printing on blue painter's tape.  I don't have to mess with glass plates, ABS slurry, or glue stick.  NinjaFlex, Nylon, PLA, ABS, PETG, and POM all stick to it very well.

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Re: Solidoodle 4 - to up grade or not to upgrade

heartless wrote:

another vote for the E3D here..
I have two SD4s, both completely upgraded to Lawsy carriages, E3D v6 hotends and Hale heatbeds... LOVE them! They are my workhorse printers without a doubt.

for calibration it is more about the settings used than it is the model... you can use a solid cube, set slic3r to 1 perimeter, 1-2 bottom layers, 0 top and 0 infill and actually get more accurate results than using a specially designed model

for proper calibrations you may want to take a read through these.. I gathered up all of the information I had gleaned from this forum in various places , and put it together in a couple of blog posts...

Part one: http://northwoods3d.weebly.com/blog/fil … ion-part-1

Part two: http://northwoods3d.weebly.com/blog/-fl … coming-out



Thanks, very useful info, and a great description of the process. I found right away when I tried to calibrate that extrusion was a problem...The mark I made at 100 mm kept stopping and starting, so definitely a problem with the feed gear slipping on the filament. The gear looks fine, no wear, but I remembered that I have a spare extruder with gear from spares that I ordered from Solidoodle. I thought I would change out the gear, only to find that the setscrew is stripped, so I'll have to cut it off. I have some new gears arriving tomorrow anyway, so I'll do it then. In the interim, I stretched the tension spring out to about 50% more length... may not last forever, but should do for now. I recalibrated the extruder and am doing some test prints now. Here is one I am printing now:

http://soliforum.com/i/?4mVWBNT.jpg

Looks pretty good, and I'm not getting a lot of filament chips, so we'll see.

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Re: Solidoodle 4 - to up grade or not to upgrade

Seems like stretching the extruder spring was the ticket... no more chips and flakes of filament, and the feed is consistent now. Have to figure out how to modify the setup so the spring tension can be adjusted.

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Re: Solidoodle 4 - to up grade or not to upgrade

I never bothered to make mine adjustable, but i DID swap out the spring for a better (stronger) one that I picked up at my local hardware store. Still running with it to this day and i have a LOT of hours on it.  wink

SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
Printit Industries Beta Tester - Horizon H1

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Re: Solidoodle 4 - to up grade or not to upgrade

It may be moot, as I am looking at modifying my Lawsy carriage to use an E3D hot end and Bowden extruder.

Question for all you experts out there... Can I assume when I replace the hotend that the thermocouple may not be the same type, and temps may be way off?  How do I address that issue? I can measure the actual temps of the hotend and make a chart of the supposed temps versus the actual temps, but is there a way to tell the software (Repetier host) what type of thermocouple I'm using?

14 (edited by JeremyLGSiegfried 2017-03-20 20:50:47)

Re: Solidoodle 4 - to up grade or not to upgrade

You can't tell the software because it only sends commands and g-code, but you can tell the firmware that you are using a thermocouple w/ or w/o a conversion board. Marlin has a config file with numbered options for this, Repetier-Firmware has some MAX conversion chips in the drop down menu. Unless there is a command to change this that I am not aware of, you'll have to recompile and re-upload the firmware to the printer board.

As for the thermocouple itself: The lettered "type" determines the metals (and hence range and sensitivity) that are used. All K-type thermocouples should read the same until they fail.

There are also plenty of thermoresistor options as well, but thermocouples are linear and consistent, so long as the temperature reading is at the junction of the two metals.

Filastruder 2607 w/ Filawinder @1.75mm.
Dual-extruder MaxMicron Prusa Mendel: RAMPS 1.4 w/ Repetier Firmware+Full Graphic LCD Controller, stock hotends, 3Dator extruders w/ MK8 gears, insulated enclosure w/ 2 heat lamps, RPi 2B w/ Repetier Server.
0.1-0.2mm layer height, heated bed w/ PEI surface, inductive-sensor autolevel, 0.5mm to 0.2mm nozzle diameters.

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Re: Solidoodle 4 - to up grade or not to upgrade

JeremyLGSiegfried wrote:

You can't tell the software because it only sends commands and g-code, but you can tell the firmware that you are using a thermocouple w/ or w/o a conversion board. Marlin has a config file with numbered options for this, Repetier-Firmware has some MAX conversion chips in the drop down menu. Unless there is a command to change this that I am not aware of, you'll have to recompile and re-upload the firmware to the printer board.

As for the thermocouple itself: The lettered "type" determines the metals (and hence range and sensitivity) that are used. All K-type thermocouples should read the same until they fail.

There are also plenty of thermoresistor options as well, but thermocouples are linear and consistent, so long as the temperature reading is at the junction of the two metals.

OK, well, the thermistor that came with my hot end says " NTC3950 thermistor"...can you tell from that what type it is?

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Re: Solidoodle 4 - to up grade or not to upgrade

if you are upgrading to an E3D you WILL need to update the firmware with the correct thermistor table settings, as well as max temp setting.

The stock thermistor (not thermocouple - two very different things) is table 1, the E3D will need table 5.

it is a relatively simple procedure to make the needed changes and then flash them to the controller board.

SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
Printit Industries Beta Tester - Horizon H1

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Re: Solidoodle 4 - to up grade or not to upgrade

heartless wrote:

if you are upgrading to an E3D you WILL need to update the firmware with the correct thermistor table settings, as well as max temp setting.

The stock thermistor (not thermocouple - two very different things) is table 1, the E3D will need table 5.

it is a relatively simple procedure to make the needed changes and then flash them to the controller board.

Thanks... I think there was a good description of that process in the Solidoodle Wiki.

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Re: Solidoodle 4 - to up grade or not to upgrade

RCFerguson wrote:

Thanks... I think there was a good description of that process in the Solidoodle Wiki.

for flashing the board, yes.

SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
Printit Industries Beta Tester - Horizon H1