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Topic: Da Vinci Jr hotend max temp only 214c

Ladies and gents,

I read somewhere in the forum that Jr hotend can go up to 235c but all I can squeeze out of my one is 214c.
I'm on firmware v2.2.0

My question is, is this firmware limitation or my heater element is struggling to get any higher.
Can anybody confirm their max temp?!

Thanks.


Regards,
Kris M

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Re: Da Vinci Jr hotend max temp only 214c

Not sure there. Could be the cooling fan is doing too good a job for the heater to keep up?

Or it might be a firmware limit. XYZ's filaments melt lower than that so it's conceivable they set the max temp that low.

I don't know too much about hotend heater components, but maybe someone here does - do they tend to wear out and stop heating as well when they get older?

You could try removing the fan temporarily (just undo the four torx screws holding it on the carriage) to see if the hotend can get any hotter without cooling. Just don't run the printer that way for long. If it can't get any hotter then you know it's a firmware or hardware problem.

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Re: Da Vinci Jr hotend max temp only 214c

Thanks for the reply.

I'll give a go without the fan just to see if it can go over 214c to clarify if that's firmware or hardware limitations.

Next test I have in mind is to try higher AMP PSU. Current one is 5AMP @ 12v so 60w to work with. As far as I remember E3D v6 was 40w rated, Jr's one probably isn't even close but still considering on top of all that 4x steppers + controller, LED...
Just one way to find out I guess.

And if still no luck I'll try to wire hotend directly to external PSU, through the relay of course.
Relay also will help me to figure out what happens when hotend reaches 214c.


Regards,
Kris M

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Re: Da Vinci Jr hotend max temp only 214c

kr15_uk wrote:

Ladies and gents,

I read somewhere in the forum that Jr hotend can go up to 235c but all I can squeeze out of my one is 214c.
I'm on firmware v2.2.0

My question is, is this firmware limitation or my heater element is struggling to get any higher.
Can anybody confirm their max temp?!

Thanks.


Regards,
Kris M


Another question to ask would be  is 214 the value on the display or an actual value measured with a probe. The issue in many printers is the actual versus displayed ca be as much as 30 degrees off sometimes. Especially true in cases with locked down firmware.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

5

Re: Da Vinci Jr hotend max temp only 214c

So... It's not a software limitation! (At least something with this device isn't soft limited...)

Measured heating element - 6 ohm so it's 25w and draws 2 amp tops.
That leaves 2 amp for the rest of the printer what should be enough.
So no need for higher amp PSU for existing configuration.

Next I've attempted to remove fan to see if it goes over 214c - and it does! 232c with no fan for 5mins.
Only way to get over 214c is to replace heating element to 40w one but that also will require beefier PSU.

6 (edited by carl_m1968 2016-07-19 23:32:34)

Re: Da Vinci Jr hotend max temp only 214c

kr15_uk wrote:

So... It's not a software limitation! (At least something with this device isn't soft limited...)

Measured heating element - 6 ohm so it's 25w and draws 2 amp tops.
That leaves 2 amp for the rest of the printer what should be enough.
So no need for higher amp PSU for existing configuration.

Next I've attempted to remove fan to see if it goes over 214c - and it does! 232c with no fan for 5mins.
Only way to get over 214c is to replace heating element to 40w one but that also will require beefier PSU.

The correct way would be to mod the fan. If it is not a part fan then it should only blow on the feed tube and on nothing below the heat break. If it is a part/later fan then it should only blow on the part, not the nozzle. You could try putting tape over the side of the fan closet to the nozzle so only half of the fan is used. I had to do that on my Delta so it would heat.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

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Re: Da Vinci Jr hotend max temp only 214c

@carl_m1968 - it's like E3D V6 visually but with the shorter heat sink.
It has fairly decent separation between nozzle bit and heat sink.
And by default it doesn't have part cooling fan, I've designed one but it was struggling to print on 210c even though it was blowing onto the part only and not a nozzle, but knowing 214c is the highest it can go I presume that it still gets some cool air around it especially knowing how cooling works on this.
Btw cooling is quite bizarre on Jr, fan isn't blowing on but sucking heat out, basically fan is flipped by 180degree! And it pulls air from the bottom through designed little air tunnels.
I've tried to flip the fan around but that was a disaster, all the prints where rubbish but what can you expect if you blow hot air straight onto the part! Then I figured out how airflow works on Jr...

I've ordered 40w heating element last night so will swap it when it arrives.
Yes I'll need higher AMP PSU but my only concern is will the fan cope and upgrade of the fan is different story... It's 40mm fan with 10k rpm, air pressure from the data sheet was nearly double in compare sent to other 40mm fans. Only solution would be to attach some kind of a tube and 80mm at the end mounted on the side.
Anyway... One thing at the time....

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Re: Da Vinci Jr hotend max temp only 214c

The Jr's fan is an interesting thing. I had to replace mine as I has an accident with it during my RAMPS conversion. I ended up buying a 2-pack of 4010 12V 0.15A fans pretty cheap, but they only push 6.3cfm.

Now that my RAMPS conversion is complete, I've attempted three significant prints. The first was a small test object using XYZ nature at 180°C. No problem there. Then I switched to XYZ white, which I'm not sure but I think used a higher temp (190°C is what I'm using). That print developed an extruder clog within the first 5 layers or so, behind the heat break. I had to dismantle my extruder and drill it out of the feed tube.

My next attempt was better but not great. I reprinted the one that cligged, and most of it came out great, but it seemed to develop a minor clog on the last cm, as the top was significantly under-extruded. I was able to clear that clog without too much trouble. I only had to heat it up and use a little force to get the filament out. I then tried to clear it by snipping the last few cm of filament of the spool and feeding a good 5cm or so of filament through the extruder.

THEN I discovered the AUTO_FAN settings in marlin which basically do the same thing that the Jr firmware does by default, by keeping the heat break fan on a long as the end is hot. With that enabled, I'm trying another print. So far so good.

I'm waiting to see if I develop another clog. If I do then it's probably because my fan is underpowered and can't keep the temp down across the heat break. If I don't then it's not conclusive, but it could have been due to having the hot end up to temperature too long during heater test runs without the fan running at the right times. But it does seem like the stock fan was higher spec for a good reason.

I didn't major in fluid dynamics. Does anyone know if stacking two 40x40x10mm fans back to back will actually double (or even improve) the total CFM? Or would that just impede the total airflow? Since I have two fans on hand it might be a cheap way to increase my airflow since I also can't seem to source a higher pressure fan of this size.

I suspect that even if a weaker fan can cut it for PLA temps in my case, you might still have trouble at higher temps.

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Re: Da Vinci Jr hotend max temp only 214c

@anthem - I had an idea about replacing the fan with something less noisier but somehow managing the same airflow so I came up with an idea.
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:526453
1. Print one of those down scaled to 40mm fan fit for the hotend fan.
2. Print another one with 40mm fit + one of these 40mm to 80mm adapters http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:21112
3. Buy 80mm fan with the same airflow spec and screw it into the right hand side fan mount at the back of the printer with that adapter on top.
4. Find right diameter light and flexible hose to connect both.

That was an idea to which I never got around.
Maybe that could be solution in your case.

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Re: Da Vinci Jr hotend max temp only 214c

Actually, so far, the 6.3cfm fan seems to be working fine. After getting the Marlin AUTO_FAN settings worked out (so that I never have a hot nozzle without the fan running), I haven't had any more clogging issues.

The quality issues I had that seemed like clogs actually turned out to be an underpowered extruder stepper. I watched a print as it was having issues and noticed that the extruder was missing steps (there'd be a small blob that came out every 3-4 millimeters instead of a steady stream), so I tweaked the trimpot on the stepper driver up another 1/4 turn and it's working fine now.

I haven't printed with filament higher than 200C yet (I will be soon when I switch to the XYZ translucent green filament which uses 210) so we'll see if I have any issues there. But I've been printing in white at 190C a lot today (3-4 different jobs of 1-3 hours each) without a problem.

Sorry to get OT here, but back to the point, it seems like a 6.3cfm might be good enough for the stock 24W heater in the Jr. Now for your upgrade, I doubt that'll do it. 40x40x10mm fans with 11.4cfm seem to be hard to come by. I found this one on Amazon (US) but it's a 3-pin, and I'm not used to working with PWM fans, so I'm not sure how to adapt it electrically for a 2-pin connector, though I'm sure it could be done: https://www.amazon.com/Case-Fan-40mm-10 … B000BSHKKE

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Re: Da Vinci Jr hotend max temp only 214c

@anthem - I've designed part cooling fan which holds 2x 3pin fans. I've only used 2x pins out of 3x to hook it directly. Works a treat.
Correct me if I'm wrong but PWM should have 4x pins - 2x pins for power, 3rd temp sensing and 4th PWM.
http://soliforum.com/i/?mT8AjC4.jpg
http://soliforum.com/i/?E8WXi2t.jpg

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Re: Da Vinci Jr hotend max temp only 214c

You'd know better than I about 3-/4-pins. I guess 3-pin fans have just have an extra RPM sensor.

Nice fan setup you've got. Did you have to remove the sides of the case or the filament spool to get their width to fit?

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Re: Da Vinci Jr hotend max temp only 214c

@anthem - I've uploaded all STL's etc to thingiverse.
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1699598

When I was designing it I believed in warranty so my goal was "do whatever you want to but be sure you can revert back to stock with no visual marks etc left behind"
It basically just clips on and is ready to go...

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Re: Da Vinci Jr hotend max temp only 214c

PWM can and does normally have three pins.. They control the speed by gating the positive or ground through a transistor driven by a PWM signal. The lower the frequency the slower the fan goes the higher the faster. The issue is that some fans don't like to start by being fed pulses and may not start. So you have to to test and see if your fans are PWM compatible. You don't need the third wire unless you have a feed back circuit that monitors fan speed or monitors for the fan being stopped and to shut down cooled circuits.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

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Re: Da Vinci Jr hotend max temp only 214c

@carl_m1968 - 2pin connector is basic live + ground, 3pin live + ground + sense, 4pin live + ground + sense + PWM
So PWM always comes in 4pin package and not 3pin.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_fan_control
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ … 05560.html
http://pinoutsguide.com/Motherboard/mb_ … nout.shtml

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Re: Da Vinci Jr hotend max temp only 214c

Yo lo hice poniendo un potenciómetrohttp://soliforum.com/i/?Sx6c0f9.jpghttp://soliforum.com/i/?UA7eKYR.jpg de 100K en paralelo al sensor de temperatura. utilizo Cualquier PLA.

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Re: Da Vinci Jr hotend max temp only 214c

kr15_uk wrote:

@carl_m1968 - 2pin connector is basic live + ground, 3pin live + ground + sense, 4pin live + ground + sense + PWM
So PWM always comes in 4pin package and not 3pin.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_fan_control
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ … 05560.html
http://pinoutsguide.com/Motherboard/mb_ … nout.shtml

Depends on the fan and the controller type.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.