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Topic: (SD4) X axis binding in only certain areas of the bed? (vid included)

Greetings!

I'm back with another problem. So last time I had binding problems I thought it was because of a crack in my right Y carriage. I have just replaced it with a new printed one from Printitindustries (which btw I highly recommend them!)
Put everything back together. with the motors off the X and Y carriages glide smoothly.

Now my Y moves perfectly fine and always has. But my X has given me tons of problems, this one being the one I cant seem to fix.
My X will bind in both directions BUT only in certain parts of my bed. So if I move my it to the front half of my print bed, the X wont bind and will move smoothly. But as soon as it passes the half way point, into the back half, it will bind.

I just cant figure it out. My X belt isnt too loose or too tight, I tried adjusting my VREF (even at max it binds), I made sure nothing is getting in the way of the X motor wires.

It shouldnt be my motor if it works fine in the front half of my machine right? Could it be a firmware or program problem?


Here's a video of the problem

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Re: (SD4) X axis binding in only certain areas of the bed? (vid included)

So when the motor is powered off and you slide it by hand, can you feel resistance in that area?

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

3

Re: (SD4) X axis binding in only certain areas of the bed? (vid included)

wardjr wrote:

So when the motor is powered off and you slide it by hand, can you feel resistance in that area?

I dont feel any resistance from sliding the X in the front half, compared to the back half. No scratching or damaged bearings too. My rods also seem not bent, as they are new. Haha quit a pickle

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Re: (SD4) X axis binding in only certain areas of the bed? (vid included)

That being the case I'm gonna suggest you remove the tape off the bearings on one side.  My guess is that the y rods aren't perfectly parallel.  As the gantry moves to the rear it is pushing in on the X rods misaligning them.  You also can check that the y carriages and belts are aligned by moving the carriage all the way forward.  Then compare the distance of the X carriage as you move it all the way left to right to the front top angle of the frame.  This distance should remain constant the whole way across.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

5

Re: (SD4) X axis binding in only certain areas of the bed? (vid included)

wardjr wrote:

That being the case I'm gonna suggest you remove the tape off the bearings on one side.  My guess is that the y rods aren't perfectly parallel.  As the gantry moves to the rear it is pushing in on the X rods misaligning them.  You also can check that the y carriages and belts are aligned by moving the carriage all the way forward.  Then compare the distance of the X carriage as you move it all the way left to right to the front top angle of the frame.  This distance should remain constant the whole way across.

Ok I will try that. So first remove all the tape off one Y carriage? even if the bearings wobble?
Then I will try pay attention to the belt alignment of the Y and X. Then I'll report back

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Re: (SD4) X axis binding in only certain areas of the bed? (vid included)

Yes, even if the bearings wobble.
Obviously you don't want them to be loose but it's better then binding.  We can use it to trouble shoot then figure a way to fix the underlying cause.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

7 (edited by takadakeyo 2016-04-23 16:53:00)

Re: (SD4) X axis binding in only certain areas of the bed? (vid included)

wardjr wrote:

Yes, even if the bearings wobble.
Obviously you don't want them to be loose but it's better then binding.  We can use it to trouble shoot then figure a way to fix the underlying cause.

[edit]
Ok so before removing the tape I first noticed that the belts are very not aligned.
So I found another video on how to align the belts and will do that and see if I still get binding, if i do ill move on to remove the tape like you said

http://i.imgur.com/sfQ01mK.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/vGwfSA1.jpg

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Re: (SD4) X axis binding in only certain areas of the bed? (vid included)

Absolutely, if that gantry isn't running perpendicular the the Y rods it will cause all sorts of problems.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

9

Re: (SD4) X axis binding in only certain areas of the bed? (vid included)

Ok so I adjusted the pullies and the belts are straight now. That certainly improved the binding problems, but I still get binding in about the middle of the bed. besides the middle (front and back) the X moves fine. So there's improvement.
I will go ahead and remove the tape off the Left Y carriage.

One thing I also noticed when putting in my replacement Right Y carriage is that there's pretty big wobble between the two Y carriages. Which doesnt seem like it would be good. But I noticed this when I first got my carriages (unless I started with faulty carriages), so I thought it was normal.
So with the belts off, I can hold the Left Y carriage in place, but I can move the Right Y carriage forward and back a bit.
A bit hard to explain, I can take a video if it helps

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Re: (SD4) X axis binding in only certain areas of the bed? (vid included)

Ideally you want the bearings to not move in the carriages but I suspect you've just got them a little too snug.  Once you get it to the point that you feel no noticeable resistance compared the rest, then it becomes an issue of VREF and cooling of the board and motor.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

11 (edited by takadakeyo 2016-04-23 20:21:39)

Re: (SD4) X axis binding in only certain areas of the bed? (vid included)

wardjr wrote:

Ideally you want the bearings to not move in the carriages but I suspect you've just got them a little too snug.  Once you get it to the point that you feel no noticeable resistance compared the rest, then it becomes an issue of VREF and cooling of the board and motor.

Ok so I took the tape off of only the Left Y bearings and had no binding when manually controlling it in RH. Then started a test box print and slight binding in the start up. When starting up it moves front left and makes an anchor. There was binding moving to the front left, but then no binding after that and was able to print the test box with no binding after.

http://i.imgur.com/8wSUL4b.jpg

Then things got worse. haha

I tried it again to see if it would bind at the same start up place, it didnt. It moved to the center after making the anchor and started to bind.

http://i.imgur.com/ZYiPDeB.jpg

I tried a few more times and kept binding. Now even when I manually control it, it binds all the back half of the bed. but the front half moves without binding.

[edit]
Here is a video of the wobble i noticed. idk if this is normal or not, but only moves like this without the belts, when the belts are one it doesnt do this

12 (edited by jagowilson 2016-04-23 21:15:26)

Re: (SD4) X axis binding in only certain areas of the bed? (vid included)

That's normal, nothing to worry about so long as it doesn't do it when the belts are on. Check VREF, if everything else is moving smoothly.

additionally..
One tning you should note about the Lawsy carriage is that the holes in the model aren't exactly in the same place on the left and right side. The rods will still go in straight and line up, but you'll notice that if you run the carriage to the front of the machine, one side will hit the idler block before the other. this is normal, the holes are spaced correctly in each model but they are offset by a few mm. If you line up the holes on a left and right carriage piece, you'll see what i mean. It can be tricky to get the X axis rods in straight and keep them straight before putting the X axis top piece on. It needs to move smoothly left and right. The Solidoodle rods are fairly low quality, consider replacing them with hardened steel or stainless steel if you can't get your bearings to move smoothly at all.

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Re: (SD4) X axis binding in only certain areas of the bed? (vid included)

jagowilson wrote:

That's normal, nothing to worry about so long as it doesn't do it when the belts are on. Check VREF, if everything else is moving smoothly.

additionally..
One tning you should note about the Lawsy carriage is that the holes in the model aren't exactly in the same place on the left and right side. The rods will still go in straight and line up, but you'll notice that if you run the carriage to the front of the machine, one side will hit the idler block before the other. this is normal, the holes are spaced correctly in each model but they are offset by a few mm. If you line up the holes on a left and right carriage piece, you'll see what i mean. It can be tricky to get the X axis rods in straight and keep them straight before putting the X axis top piece on. It needs to move smoothly left and right. The Solidoodle rods are fairly low quality, consider replacing them with hardened steel or stainless steel if you can't get your bearings to move smoothly at all.


Oh ok good to know its normal. I have jsut been tampering with the X VREF. Should I also be adjusting the Y as well?
With the motors off they slide smoothly and I just replaced the stock rods with hardened steel ones.

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Re: (SD4) X axis binding in only certain areas of the bed? (vid included)

At this point I'd start by adjusting the VREF up slightly and get a fan on your board. Additionally a heat sink on that motor wouldn't hurt either.  Based on your description you have a cooling issue as it seems things got worse the longer it ran.
Jagowilson is correct about the rods, if the bearings aren't smooth you will have problems.
For that I would use my hand and exercise the X carriage back and forth until things loosen up as a temporary fix.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

15

Re: (SD4) X axis binding in only certain areas of the bed? (vid included)

wardjr wrote:

At this point I'd start by adjusting the VREF up slightly and get a fan on your board. Additionally a heat sink on that motor wouldn't hurt either.  Based on your description you have a cooling issue as it seems things got worse the longer it ran.
Jagowilson is correct about the rods, if the bearings aren't smooth you will have problems.
For that I would use my hand and exercise the X carriage back and forth until things loosen up as a temporary fix.

Ok I just hooked up a fan to my X motor and have a fan pointing at my board. My S4 came with a small fan in the board housing but doesnt seem effective at all since its not even pointing at the board. So just have a small house fan until I can get a more permanent fan.
I will keep turning up the X VREF and see how it performs and report back in a bit with fingers crossed

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Re: (SD4) X axis binding in only certain areas of the bed? (vid included)

Ok so even with a fan on the board and fan on my X motor (huge thanks to AZERATE for sending me the printed part) I get binding from the first print. My X VREF is at the max and still binding. Then I tried to turn up the Y as well and no improvement.

http://i.imgur.com/JrVW6bL.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/VNdbSyJ.jpg

certainly not as bad as before.

Is there anything else I can try? I have been also searching for similar problems and solutions, but coming up empty handed.

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Re: (SD4) X axis binding in only certain areas of the bed? (vid included)

I'd pull that X belt off and move it around by hand.  It is possible the motor has a broken wire inside the insulation that's just intermittent enough to cause this.   The VREF all the way up isn't a good thing.  You really want those set just a hair above where the motor can be easily stalled.
You might set this with the belt off and use your fingers to gauge max torque.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

18 (edited by takadakeyo 2016-04-24 15:41:49)

Re: (SD4) X axis binding in only certain areas of the bed? (vid included)

wardjr wrote:

I'd pull that X belt off and move it around by hand.  It is possible the motor has a broken wire inside the insulation that's just intermittent enough to cause this.   The VREF all the way up isn't a good thing.  You really want those set just a hair above where the motor can be easily stalled.
You might set this with the belt off and use your fingers to gauge max torque.

Ok so to gauge the torque, I take the belt off and hold the motor pulley with my finger and keep turning the VREF up until it starts to move?
Should I also start looking into a new X motor?

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Re: (SD4) X axis binding in only certain areas of the bed? (vid included)

Yes, and I wouldn't worry about a new motor unless you can truly verify that it is failing.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

20

Re: (SD4) X axis binding in only certain areas of the bed? (vid included)

wardjr wrote:

Yes, and I wouldn't worry about a new motor unless you can truly verify that it is failing.

Ok so I took the belt off and slowly adjusted my VREF but again even at max it binds, but this time any where on the bed. BUT strange but, when I move it to the very front of the bed, it doesnt move at all, no binding or sounds. Shown in the video. When it doesnt make a sound or move, im still controlling it.

Also just to confirm, but this is the VREF right? Im sure it is, but maybe its not

http://i.imgur.com/COc0bRl.jpg

21 (edited by IronMan 2016-04-25 12:38:46)

Re: (SD4) X axis binding in only certain areas of the bed? (vid included)

Different motor behavior at various positions might indicate a break or short in the wiring...have you checked that at the motor?

You can remove the motor and move it around by hand to different positions and see if you get the same behavior...

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Re: (SD4) X axis binding in only certain areas of the bed? (vid included)

Sounds like you may have a broken wire, you should be able to make it do that just by moving the wires.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

23

Re: (SD4) X axis binding in only certain areas of the bed? (vid included)

IronMan wrote:

Different motor behavior at various positions might indicate a break or short in the wiring...have you checked that at the motor?

You can remove the motor and move it around by hand to different positions and see if you get the same behavior...

Sounds like you may have a broken wire, you should be able to make it do that just by moving the wires.

Ok I will remove the motor and check for any breaks and also check the all wire continuity to see if theres any breaks in the middle

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Re: (SD4) X axis binding in only certain areas of the bed? (vid included)

Ok so I removed the X motor didnt seem to be any breaks between the plug and the motor. I opened up the motor and didnt see anything that look out of place, besides a oddly bent metal spacer. But I assume its normal since it's bent pretty consistently, but idk if its something deeper in the motor that I cant get to.

http://i.imgur.com/X73oIQ0.jpg

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Re: (SD4) X axis binding in only certain areas of the bed? (vid included)

You should actually take multimeter set on continuity. Connect one lead at the motor and one lead at the board on the same wire and then move the motor or wire around while watching the meter. You will want to flex the wire in all directions snd flex it in all directions at any point that it was tie wrapped or secured in some way. Do this with all 4 wires. They did not sctually mean to look at the wires in the motor.

As an alternative unmount the motor and leave it connected. Strt it running and just move it so you flex the wires in every posi le way. See if it stops at any point. Thats what they wanted you to do.

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