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Topic: Hot End Issues

Had a weird series of events start yesterday.

I began a print, and as always everything went swimmingly. However after about 15 minutes the hot end immediately began to cool down inexplicably. The bed also began to cool.

I unplugged everything, restarted the PC, and while I was waiting for it to boot I checked all the plugs on the sanguinololu to ensure they were all plugged in.

After the restart, the hot end started heating up again, the bed as well. However, 15 minutes in, the hot end immediately began cooling again, the bed did not (didn't wait to see if it would eventually...)

In all it did this 3-4 times, so it wasn't a once off fluke.

What could be causing this?  I know a few issues like this have been had before, and I was going to see if you guys had any input.

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Re: Hot End Issues

When it starts cooling, is the printer moving, or sitting there?  If it is moving, the might be a connection that is barely hanging on and getting broken during certain movement.

Are you using Repetier or Pronterface?  If you are using Repetier, switch over to Pronterface and see what happens.  Maybe there are some commands being sent by the controller that shouldn't be.

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Re: Hot End Issues

Printer is still moving, and it gives the error that it won't extrude because the hot end is not hot enough. It's still trying to print but it isn't heating. I checked it with a laser thermometer and it is cooling.

Pronterface is what I have used so far, haven't tried Repetier yet.

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Re: Hot End Issues

Download and install Repetier, but don't bother with the firmware and everything.  Just connect to the printer, turn on the heaters and let it sit.  Repetier has a really good temperature graph that shows the Set Temperature and Actual Temperature for both extruder and bed, along with Heater Power.

If after sitting still for 15+ minutes nothing goes wrong, load the gcode you have already been using and run it from Repetier.  Maybe there will be a clue from the graph.  If the heat has always been shutting off around the same point in the print, try a printing a different STL.  If there is something about the movement that is aggravating a bad connection, then a different print should give you different results.

5 (edited by Caucasian 2012-08-29 19:04:24)

Re: Hot End Issues

I'll try that this evening.

The print I was trying was new, but I reverted back to one I have successfully printed numerous times and it didn't work either.

Thanks for the help, Ian.

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Re: Hot End Issues

If the old print is still working, maybe some temperature commands ended up in the gcode somehow.  You could do a search in TextEdit and see if anything shows up.

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Re: Hot End Issues

When I got home, the end would no longer heat at all.

I'm seeing 428000 ohms resistance on the heating element and 12.42v coming from the board. I'm almost positive this means it is bad, but I still have yet to get a response from Support. Hopefully they'll have a way to resolve this when they do.

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Re: Hot End Issues

Most likely the core is bad. I think we talked about this over e-mail. If anyone else suspects they have a defective core, don't be afraid to speak up.

Former Solidoodle employee, no longer associated with the company.

9 (edited by Caucasian 2012-09-11 02:43:19)

Re: Hot End Issues

Well, I got the replacement hot end in today. Here is, to the best of my recollection how it all went as far as replacing it. My nature is, dive in and learn, so I have no idea if there is another (more than likely better written, as well) guide out there. If there is, you might check it out.

Standard disclaimer - Don't blame me if something breaks, this worked for me but that doesn't mean it will work for you.

In the box they sent a nozzle, a replacement barrel (brass tube with threading on the outside), a replacement heating element, and a small length of kapton tape (thank you so freaking much for thinking of the little things, Solidoodle!).

First, remove the two sleeves that surround the nozzle and heating element, they slide right off with minimal force.

In removing the extruder, I removed the four screws that attach the stepper motor and the rest of the assembly behind it (heat sink, fan). Laying it gently to the side, I then removed the two outward facing nuts that attached the clear acrylic assembly to the printed bracket.

Unclipping the clips was a bit of a pain, but a small pair of needle nose pliers and a light tug on the top of the clip and they popped right out. At this point I removed the thermistor using an exacto knife to make a small cut in the kapton surrounding the nozzle. Once both were removed, the assembly is free and clear of the machine and can be worked with more closely.

There may be a way to change this out without having to completely disassemble the acrylic structure, but I have no freaking clue how that would work. Considering the actual problem is the heating element is dead, there is going to be a mess of solidified abs that really doesn't want to spin.

So, I disassembled the acrylic assembly, removing the bearing arm as one piece and then removing the one other bolt/nut that clasp all of them together. Note to anyone trying this, there are two small inserts that are clear acrylic and if you happen to be an idiot like me, can get lost in a hurry.

At this point you have the PEEK tube with some left over ABS poking out the top, and everything beneath it.

Now, I did try to just remove the nozzle and hot end while it was still in the machine, however knowing the delicate nature of this I didn't put a whole lot of effort into that because I knew I could end up breaking something. Once it was out, even with a body builder friend grasping onto the PEEK tube and a wrench, I could not get the nozzle off. In hindsight, it might be easier to break the nozzle from the heating element first, as they were actually under some tension. I did not take this route, however.

Around the PEEK tube I fastened a hose clamp, so that it would hopefully not damage the tube at all. Once it was in, I placed it inside of a bench clamp that I VERY LIGHTLY tightened down, so that the force would be applied as torque to the body of the tube and not actual clamping force. It took a heck of a lot of force to get it off (twisting the ABS, plus whatever torque is placed from the factory.

The nozzle came off first, then I removed the heating element. At this point, there was no reason I could think to replace the barrel, as it was not damaged in the removal of the nozzle and heating element, so I left it, replaced the heating element (smooth side towards the nozzle, not the slotted side, this is how it was assembled). Once the two parts were replaced. I began assembling the acrylic structure (this can be tricky, I'll try to get a better guide on how to fit it back together later). DO NOTE - ONE SCREW IS LONGER THAN THE OTHERS. This actually matters, the longer screw that is not entirely threaded is the one that is used on the bearing arm for tension adjustment. I kind of forgot that and it's a massive pain in the butt removing and replacing everything again. So don't do that.

Once finally put back together, I fired it up in Pronterface to the time tested, mother approved 200 degrees. I began soiling myself when I saw either the PEEK melting, or condensation rising, a quick swipe with a cloth proved that it was merely condensation building up, or oil from my hands baking off, or something from the heating element. I have no idea what it was exactly, but I assume that is to be expected. It is printing like a champ now for about 2 hours.

As far as the failure, the adhesive/bonding agent that wraps the heating element appears to have begun cracking at some point near the entrance point of the wire. When finally removed I was poking and proding the thing and one of the leads practically fell out of the adhesive. One side of the circuit was still connected (soldered on), the other had desoldered. Personally, I think a crimped connection would prevent this in the future, when I go to make one in the near future, I will try it and report my findings back, I realize this will be hard though, due to the nature of the connection and requirement for an insulated wire. I've got the length gauge figured out, but out of respect for them, won't post it unless they have no issues with it.

Hope this helps.

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Re: Hot End Issues

The hot end is actually OEM from Makergear.  There is a guide to putting one together here-

http://www.makergear.com/pages/superpack-instructions

Just make sure that the heat core is tightened down against the nozzle, and not up against the PEEK barrel.  Also the smoke/steam that you saw was probably the last of the water escaping as the ceramic paste around the heat core finished drying out and curing.

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Re: Hot End Issues

Well, I'll be. Thanks Ian.

12 (edited by Caucasian 2012-09-11 04:59:42)

Re: Hot End Issues

Studying the hot end that you linked to it shows as having crimp ends between the wire and the nichrome, which mine (broken one) doesn't (pic attached). Again, I am sure this is in the spirit of keeping the cost of materials and production to a minimum, which I do appreciate.

I spent some time doing a little number crunching, and for the same cost that makerbot sells those for, I think that it would be easily possible to do a mold around the wood insert nut, put the flush end of the nut onto a piece of masking tape and either using wax paper, tape a mold (or better yet, use a piece of aluminum the same height as the jam nut and a bit wider and leave it on once completed, if you want a clean looking product) and pour in JB weld. JB should be able to handle a constant 260C for Original JB, and Pro should be able to handle 300C. It would take some time to make, but the finished product would look pretty darn awesome and it would guarantee that whenever it is tightened to the hot end, it wouldn't run the risk of breaking off the epoxy/putty, if using aluminum, square tubing would be easy to use and would also let you get a pretty hefty amount of torque on it to boot. Only devil in the details is how to get the nichrome wire to stay where it should but I bet that could be fairly easily solved with a bit more thought.

Next time I have spare cash I'll see if I can get the stuff on order, I definitely want to try this now.

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Re: Hot End Issues

I think I have hot end issue as well. As soon as I turn the Heater ON in Pronterface the power supply is overloaded and it shuts down. Heater on bed works fine...

My printer is down now for 5 days and hopefully I get necessary parts for replacement soon. Its really frustrating...

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Re: Hot End Issues

I don't know if that is a hot end issue like the one I had. All said my power supply gets hotter than a pistol in about 10 minutes (the cat is still fond of it, masochist) but it never has an issue with overloading.

I haven't undone the electronics to see what the output to the board should be. But I bet someone has.

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Re: Hot End Issues

tek wrote:

I think I have hot end issue as well. As soon as I turn the Heater ON in Pronterface the power supply is overloaded and it shuts down. Heater on bed works fine...

My printer is down now for 5 days and hopefully I get necessary parts for replacement soon. Its really frustrating...

Sounds like you might have a faulty thermistor. Under certain circumstances the thermistor can tell the printer to heat infinitely, thus shut down. Have you e-mailed support?

Former Solidoodle employee, no longer associated with the company.