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Topic: What would your ultimate 3d printer have?

I scored a pallet of heavy duty extruded aluminum+connecting hardware, industrial ways, and bearings (all nearly brand new) at a local auction and decided they would be the start of an "ultimate" FDM 3d printer.  Will be way over-kill as I estimate the value of these parts to be north of $8000 (which I got for pennies on the dollar) but over-kill is how I like my tools so before making the first cut, I decided to give some thought as to what, exactly, this monster should look like and to solicit opinions from the experienced folks here.  Here's my initial thoughts:

  • cartesian (build plate for Z, X&Y on extruder - just like my SD4, just better)

  • heavy duty, modular frame (large extruded aluminum with T-slots)

  • enclosed in plexiglass

  • easily modifiable (modifiable for use for engraving, laser cutting, plasma cutting, milling, DNA sequencing, whatever).

  • At least four extruders (thinking of trying the diamond hot end kick-starter for three of the extruders and having at least one extra auxiliary nozzle for filler/flex/support specialty filament)

  • Auto bed levelling

  • large, rigid, rectangular build platform (XYZ=36x18x36).  My extruded aluminum has a 90mmX90mm cross section so I think it will be rigid enough.  Will never use the full volume due to time constraints - but want flexibility to print long parts, or many parts before clearing the bed

  • quick heating bed (yes, I will need a huge PSU).  Thinking I could experiment with fluids for quick heat up and cool down.

  • high-end, expandable controller board (suggestions, anyone?)

  • probably both Bowden and local extruder motors (use the Bowden for the diamond hot end and local for the extra)

Anything else I should consider?

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Re: What would your ultimate 3d printer have?

TickTock wrote:

[*]quick heating bed (yes, I will need a huge PSU).  Thinking I could experiment with fluids for quick heat up and cool down.[/*]
[*]high-end, expandable controller board (suggestions, anyone?)[/*]
?

I have a suggestion for your bed heater (check my signature) I have a lot experience with this.
Controllers seems to be a matter of how much you want to spend.
Rumba is my go to controller
Ramps1.4 is well documented
Azteeg is well regarded
Smoothie is considered the gold standard (to some)

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

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Re: What would your ultimate 3d printer have?

First recommendation would be look into a CoreXY set-up instead of straight Cartesian. It will run much faster, and give higher quality prints.

Second, I like the Rambo boards. Just IMHO, I know you cannot replace the stepper drivers on them, but not having trimpots to deal with is really nice.

Thirdly, I actually would find it hard to justify a dual-extrusion system. It is nice to have when you need it, but I rarely need it enough. If building from scratch, sure put one in. Trying to print with 4 different heads? I can only imagine doing that with something I would need 4 colors for. In that case, trying to get the slicing right would make my head spin. If you need 4 colors, you can print separate pieces and glue them together. For simplicity's sake, check what you really need. Also, if going with 4 heads, I would prefer an integrated 4 head system like the Kracken instead of trying to piece together a 3-head system with an extra head. It will make your life much easier.

Finally, on the issue of simplicity, I am big fan of having a machine that does one thing and does it well. When you start getting machines that do more than one thing you have more problems (think TV/VCR combos), and may not be able to any of them well due to the compromises needed to add the versatility. Why create a removable head for CNC, laser, etc? When a fixed head for 3d print will provide more stability and accuracy. I imagine there will be at least some slop with anything that fits in and is removable later. Not just for 3d printing, but the laser and CNC as well. With all of that being said, having a laser, CNC, and plasma cutter is cool.

Solidoodle 4-Mostly stock running off headless Raspberry Pi with Octoprint

4 (edited by jagowilson 2015-07-31 16:44:28)

Re: What would your ultimate 3d printer have?

if you want quad extruders I don't see why you'd go with anything other than the tried and true Kraken from e3d. you will need a board with 7 drivers to run 4 extruders; if I recall Smoothie offers one, but don't quote me on that.

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Re: What would your ultimate 3d printer have?

I would have to 3rd the Kraken as well if you set on having 4 extruders. The Kraken would probably take away the least amount of build space, too.

Personally, I wouldn't mind having a dual, but cant really ever see myself needing more than that. I rarely have the need for more than one color at a time, so more than a dual would be wasted on me.

Larger build platform/volume is a big one on my wishlist. 8x8x8 just isn't big enough. =P And it MUST be stable!

SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
Printit Industries Beta Tester - Horizon H1

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Re: What would your ultimate 3d printer have?

Actually, my ultimate printer would print at least 1000 times faster than anything out there, but I don't know how to do that, so I'm just building a core xy system from scratch.

You might want to look at a smoothieboard. If you have a heavy duty frame which can run fast without flexing, the smoothieboard will be able to deliver gcode fast enough to release the full potential.

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Re: What would your ultimate 3d printer have?

Thanks for all the good feedback.  Summarizing below:

  • controller board:  I looked at Smoothie, but right now I can only find ones with up to 5 stepper controllers.  I need 6 (7 if I am really going to have 4 extruders).  Duet+Duetx4 expansion or AZteeg X3 PRO seems to be the only way without designing my own expansion.

  • coreXY:  I was thinking along this lines, too (I see coreXY as a subcategory of Cartesian) but also looking at ballscrew

  • heater bed: use AC+SSR.  Good idea. 

  • hot end: use Kraken (lots of votes for this).  I hear there are challenges getting all four heads perfectly aligned.  Or is this just the folks trying to sell the Diamond head?  :-)

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Re: What would your ultimate 3d printer have?

How about features?  Proximity detectors instead of limit switches? Rotary encoder flow feedback on the filament? Real-time filament diameter feedback?  Closeup cam of the print nozzle?  Auto pallet loading and unloading?

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Re: What would your ultimate 3d printer have?

TickTock wrote:

I looked at Smoothie, but right now I can only find ones with up to 5 stepper controllers.  I need 6 (7 if I am really going to have 4 extruders).

There are a slew of extra general purpose I/O pins available on the smoothie, and you can hook them up to extra external stepper controllers and tell the smoothie config which pins you used. (So the web pages claim - I haven't done it yet, but may need to if I want to go to a dual extruder because I'll need to slave two stepper controllers together to run my dual Z motors, which will leave me only able to run a single extruder).

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Re: What would your ultimate 3d printer have?

My ideal printer
Hmm  I have been pondering
Well a printer but one that does most materials. I would like to see 500mm/sec print speed. A high but attainable goal.
quality components preferably made in usA or at least reliable imports.
I am thinking 8 x12 x  12 print area. Bigger is not always better. bigger takes more shop space . and the the laws of scaling are ever present.  go from a 6x6 print bed to 12 x 12 and you need four times the power  to run the heat bed. and double the size of a print and it takes 8 times as long to print.
even at my dream print speed printing takes time on a large print.
I personally would probably weld up a frame.
in reality not totally sure still pondering a flash forge creator pro or a kossel kit with aluminum frame connectors and effector.
Tin

Soliddoodle 4 stock w glass bed------Folger Tech Prusa 2020 upgraded to and titan /aero extruder mirror bed
FT5 with titan/ E3D Aero------MP mini select w glass bed
MP Utimate maker pro-W bondtech extruder
Marlin/Repetier Host/ Slic3r and Cura

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Re: What would your ultimate 3d printer have?

Morganism wrote:

I actually would find it hard to justify a dual-extrusion system. It is nice to have when you need it, but I rarely need it enough. If building from scratch, sure put one in. Trying to print with 4 different heads? I can only imagine doing that with something I would need 4 colors for. In that case, trying to get the slicing right would make my head spin.

I am regretting not getting a dual head.  There is a lot you can do with one, but find I do wish for more fairly commonly.  Even changing colors between layers is a hassle and I am always afraid I will bump the head - slipping the stepper.  I wanted three because I want at least one to be a volcano or equivalent with a larger nozzle for speed.  Number four was specifically for a Wades extruder which I am convinced is required for flexible filament.  Maybe it's an interchangeable head.. a multi-bowden *or* a single Wades.  Regardless, I want the board to support 4 extruders so I have the flexibility without buying a new complete machine.  At the same time, boards are cheap so I can start small for now.

I had been assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that all I had to do on my models is identify different volumes as different materials in the drawing and the slicer will automatically assign a different nozzle/color.  Is this not right?  If I have to manually edit the gcode, I agree, that would be limiting.

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Re: What would your ultimate 3d printer have?

Nice. Looking forward to seeing this work! 90x90mm extrusion is HUGE. You could build a printer with 2m cubic build area, a peristaltic pump and a cement/clay nozzle and make some sick furniture. smile

At present I'm going for E3D chimera/cyclops, and a mad-cap cross between ultimaker mechanism and core-xy fishing line arrangement on printer 2. But I'm keeping it small (fast and accurate), so different design goal I suppose! smile

SD3. Mk2b + glass, heated enclosure, GT2 belts, direct drive y shaft, linear bearings, bowden-feed E3D v5 w/ 0.9° stepper
Smoothieboard via Octoprint on RPi

13 (edited by TickTock 2015-08-28 14:31:43)

Re: What would your ultimate 3d printer have?

Starting to gel.  One thing I am leaning toward right now is to use *4* leadscrews (and steppers) for the Z axis.  One on each corner.  Will need to design&print a semi-rigid coupler from the ballscrew to the plate but I think this will result in a very rigid print platform.  Also (perhaps more importantly :-)) this satisfies my OCD nature (I don't care for the asymmetry of the 3 leadscrew arrangement).   I think I figured out a nice way to control all four Z steppers with only 4 IOs (leaving the other 8 on the smoothie for other top-secret features :-)).   This allows me to raise and lower as well as level it. Thoughts?

http://www.soliforum.com/misc.php?action=pun_attachment&item=9117

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Re: What would your ultimate 3d printer have?

Can we get a picture of this 90x90mm extrusion?  That's crazy big.  I didn't even know they made that.

SD4 w/ RUMBA, E3D Volcano, all bearings, glass bed

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Re: What would your ultimate 3d printer have?

To me the most useful part would be to print support in one material and my object in another and then dissolve the support. I am far from an expert, but it is my understand that you need to model each part in the color that you want separately, then have Slicer put them together before printing. I could be wrong.

TickTock wrote:

I am regretting not getting a dual head.  There is a lot you can do with one, but find I do wish for more fairly commonly.  Even changing colors between layers is a hassle and I am always afraid I will bump the head - slipping the stepper.  I wanted three because I want at least one to be a volcano or equivalent with a larger nozzle for speed.  Number four was specifically for a Wades extruder which I am convinced is required for flexible filament.  Maybe it's an interchangeable head.. a multi-bowden *or* a single Wades.  Regardless, I want the board to support 4 extruders so I have the flexibility without buying a new complete machine.  At the same time, boards are cheap so I can start small for now.

I had been assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that all I had to do on my models is identify different volumes as different materials in the drawing and the slicer will automatically assign a different nozzle/color.  Is this not right?  If I have to manually edit the gcode, I agree, that would be limiting.

Solidoodle 4-Mostly stock running off headless Raspberry Pi with Octoprint

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Re: What would your ultimate 3d printer have?

This http://3dprintingindustry.com/2014/09/1 … niversity/
Although, I have no idea what I would do with it.