26 (edited by AZERATE 2015-08-19 16:08:29)

Re: Long time listener, first time caller

I let it sit at temp for 20 minutes before turning the motor on. It may still rotate...if it does, let it and just be mindful of the thermocouple/heater wires. Unmount and rotate if needed. If it rotates more than 45°, you will have to rotate as mentioned.

I have 3 hours on mine with no problems.
I have no experience extruding PLA, so just confirm that those temps are sufficient.

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
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27

Re: Long time listener, first time caller

cherryshake wrote:

Hello, I am having the same problem with the rotating barrel, even though I tightened it a lot! How did you end up solving this problem in the end? And what do I do now that the barrel is full of PLA? I am running it at a set temperature of 180 c which ends up around 173 c with the fan on (still got to do the autotuning). PLA is 4034 by Natureworks.

Do you mean 4043? I haven't heard of 4034 before, maybe it has a higher melt temperature.

Anyway, AZERATE has the right idea - just unmount and remount as needed. Eventually the barrel will stop rotating, once it is fully tightened. Make sure you're using the stall protection board and have it set properly and you shouldn't be able to do any damage to the assembly.

28

Re: Long time listener, first time caller

Thanks for the quick replies! Fired up the Filastruder again to follow your advice and now the rotation has stopped. Is it normal for the motor to make varying sounds and the occasional clicking noise? Of course I meant the 4043D, got my numbers jumbled earlier. I am now running it at around 151 C, as I found the higher temperatures gave me a really small diameter. I might try to go even lower to get the full 2.85mm, but I believe that puts more strain on the motor, right? It's quite a steep learning curve, also to get the Filawinder to work with the larger diameter - it seems to get stuck on occasion.

29

Re: Long time listener, first time caller

Varying sounds is likely the heater cycling on and off, this affects the voltage very slightly and our ears can pick up on the slight frequency shift. Clicking is likely the relay cycling on and off.

The nozzles are intentionally slightly undersized as it is easier to make a small hole bigger than a big hole smaller smile. There's no one size fits all diameter and different plastics have different amounts of die swell. You can drill it out with a standard drill, though. I'd aim for more like 155C-160C on PLA to keep output speeds up and motor load down, and drill the nozzle accordingly. Are you pre drying the PLA?

Check that the PTFE loop isn't too tight on the Filawinder, it can produce too much drag and overload the motor.

30

Re: Long time listener, first time caller

Yes, I've pre-dried the PLA in a food dehydrator for 8 hours at 60C - there were some bubbles, but not many. I will drill my 'proper' nozzle with the melt filter a little bit larger, and just finish the first cycle as is with the 'rough' nozzle. The sounds I am hearing are not the ones from the controller, they are there too, but expected. The other ones sound a lot more mechanical if you know what I mean, including a bit of creaking, a sort of occasional knocking and the type of sound you get from a motor accelerating and slowing down. I've got the PTFE loop as large and far away as possible, but will probably print the extension piece available on thingiverse to ease the pressure even more. Can't believe it's taken me four months to get to this point...

31

Re: Long time listener, first time caller

Those noises are normal, sometimes they can be reduced by realigning the motor and auger, but the bearings are pretty robust so anything you hear is likely superficial.

32

Re: Long time listener, first time caller

I extruded my first proper roll today, after exchanging the nozzle for the one with the filter. It went really well for about 3 hours, but towards the end the barrel turned a little bit again and the diameter went from around 2.6-2.7 to 2.2-2.4. There was also some ooze from behind the nozzle - even though I tightened it as much as it would go with a wrench! The barrel has not quite done a 1/4 turn now, not sure if I should take apart and re-install? Same with the nozzle - could it even be the part the nozzle sits on that is oozing? I can't see properly because of the insulation...

33

Re: Long time listener, first time caller

Did the sensor move when the barrel rotated? That would explain the diameter reduction.

You should reorient the barrel so the opening is facing as upwards as possible. It's a tapered thread so it has to stop rotating eventually.

Nozzle leakage generally means there was plastic in the threads. You could try heating it up hotter then tightening.

34

Re: Long time listener, first time caller

I recently began having slow extrusion. Reeeaaalllll slow. Like 1/8" a minute slow.
I'm wondering if there is a jam somewhere between the hopper and the heating band.

I have had no noises stranger than usual. Assuming I had a clog, I removed the nozzle to inspect and it was nothing more than hardened plastic without any foreign debris in sight. I upped the heat gradually to 190c in an attempt to regain speed, and I got the opposite result.

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
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35

Re: Long time listener, first time caller

Assuming the nozzle isn't clogged and you have good pellet feed (the barrel cutout still faces upwards and pellets are flowing in nicely).

Most likely plastic is sticking to the auger and not the barrel, so a plug of molten plastic just goes round and round. I've had that happen twice now over the course of 2500 hours and a few people have reported it as well. What I did to fix it is heat to around 220C, remove the 4 main bolts, pull/pry out the auger, peel off the plastic, and reinstall.

Did you do anything different? Run some colorant? Start the motor early? Did the slow extrusion occur when you first started up, or after you had been running for some time?

36

Re: Long time listener, first time caller

I added a single black pellet to remind me the hopper was getting low and upped the temps to 185 once extrusion slowed. At 190 today, I got maybe 1/2" in about 5 minutes.

I saw your post regarding the "plug" you removed, so I will try that. I assumed this would be the correct path to take, but I'm still new and didn't want to jump to conclusions.
On the topic of speed, I know this has been discussed, but this is what I'm thinking:
*Vertical feed
*Full barrel insulation
*Steady heat at 190

I know colorants have been reported to slow extrusion, but is there anything else I'm missing on this front?

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!

37

Re: Long time listener, first time caller

One colorant pellet won't do it, unless it's some wacky colorant that doesn't melt until 260C or something.

Are you saying you have changed to vertical and added barrel insulation? Or that you're thinking about those things?

In a couple instances I replaced the barrel and the problem disappeared, we can do that if needed.

38

Re: Long time listener, first time caller

Ha! PC based masterbatch lol  I highly doubt one pellet is culprit, but an entertaining thought.
I added the full insulation, but am thinking about the others.

I will try my options then go from there. Thanks again for your help and offer!

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!

39

Re: Long time listener, first time caller

That's interesting about the full insulation. I also run full insulation, but it has happened to people that don't. Just trying to figure out the pattern so I can tweak the design to avoid this in the future.

40

Re: Long time listener, first time caller

elmoret wrote:

That's interesting about the full insulation. I also run full insulation, but it has happened to people that don't. Just trying to figure out the pattern so I can tweak the design to avoid this in the future.

Dual counter rotating augers that intersect to prevent either from getting clogged? (That's probably a little bigger than a "tweak" :-).

41

Re: Long time listener, first time caller

Time for another weekly broadcast to the Filastruder section!

I removed the motor, heated to 220 for a few minutes, removed the rear flange, and could NOT remove the auger for inspection. Even with many tools at work and a helper, it would not budge at that temp. So I posed a theory that there was a clog.
After ramming the straightened end of a paper clip through the nozzle, I set back up for extrusion, reset the temp to 185 and dropped a single black pellet before the remaining MG94 as a marker and I am back up and running.
I have noticed some rather large metal shards after the probing, and hope I have passed the clog. Once the purging is complete, I will break it all down for a full inspection for installing the melt filter to be certain.

Easy solution for a problem that may not be completely gone until then, but I pose a question:
Would plunging a circular brush multiple time and hitting the pipe with an air compressor made a significant difference? Seems to me like it would have.

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!

42

Re: Long time listener, first time caller

So it was a nozzle clog, not a "plug of death" issue. I thought you said you removed the nozzle previously and inspected it?

A chunk coming free that is big enough to plug a 1.6mm hole isn't likely to have come loose with a brush or air compressor. It should have been removed during the deburring step in assembly.

43

Re: Long time listener, first time caller

I did remove the nozzle and that is another interesting point. The debris must have been sitting on the back end of the hole.

Sorry I wasn't very clear. I posted via phone earlier...
The brush/compressor comment was in relation to after grinding and before initial purging. If anything, I would assume it would speed up the clearing process for those with access to a compressor or brush. The brush I have in mind is like one to clean baby bottles with.

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!

44

Re: Long time listener, first time caller

It would speed up the purge process. It doesn't hurt anything either way, its whether you want to spend 5 minutes with a brush and air compressor to save probably a dollar of plastic.

Thanks for the update either way, I was concerned and confused as it wasn't fitting the other (very rare) reports about the plug.

45

Re: Long time listener, first time caller

You are most welcome and I am glad this was fixed for the most part. Since clearing via paperclip, I have absolutely zero waves like I previously saw.
I will say that the motor/auger coupler that came in my kit has warped some on the motor end and seem to have melted a touch. This does not seem to effect any rotation, but I may purchase a metal one in the near future to reduce potential downtime...unless there is a significant reason why the kit was changed to a composite socket?

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!

46

Re: Long time listener, first time caller

Melted? Say whaaaa? You playing with oxy acetlyene torches?

They've always been metal sockets. Sometimes chrome plated, sometimes not if they're Impact sockets. I just buy what's on closeout at the time, the motor applies way less torque than a socket or impact wrench is capable of.

47 (edited by AZERATE 2015-09-14 01:46:12)

Re: Long time listener, first time caller

It was not melted afterall. Not even close. lol
My wrappings of electrical tape were so tight, it resembled part of the socket while I was in a rush. I reseated the socket and adjusted the motor placement half a hair and now everything seems to be working great.
Currently, I'm averaging 20"p/m even while playing with a couple colorants at 190c. I also raised the rear about 2" to act semi-angled and all waves and most imperfections are gone.

Every now and then the filament snags on the brass guide which then causes a problem

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!

48

Re: Long time listener, first time caller

That makes more sense.

Try moving the filament guide a half inch or so closer to the nozzle, that should the care of the filament getting stuck on it. You can also try dropping the temperature a little, and/or angling the fan a bit for more cooling.

49

Re: Long time listener, first time caller

I was just wondering, what is the benefit of wrapping the whole barrel in insulation material? And what type of material could I use?

50

Re: Long time listener, first time caller

It moderately increases throughput (~20% or so) and improves mixing.

You can use any material rated for 250C or higher. If you want some more of the same insulation, I can sell it for 50 cents an inch here:

http://www.filastruder.com/products/other-parts

Just place the order where $1 is 2 inches, as much as you want.