1

Topic: Autotuning PID

I'm having an issue with my hotend not reaching the correct temperature (300 C). If I unplug the fan for the heatsink, it does fine but with the fan running it will only heat up to 290 max. I'm working with technical support but I don't think they really know what the problem is, so I'm trying some things on my own, and if you guys have any suggestions please let me know.

I thought of Autotuning the PID, but I have to use GCode and I am not familiar with it, so maybe you guys can point me in the right direction.

I found this article for PID Tuning: http://reprap.org/wiki/PID_Tuning

I am able to follow it up to the point where it says, "If the EEPROM is enabled, save with M500." I'm not sure what that's telling me to do. Is that saying that I would enter something like this?

M500 P19.56 I0.71 D134.26 


instead of

M301 P19.56 I0.71 D134.26 

Thanks in advance

-Prusa i3 MK2s
-Airwolf HD2x w/ E3D v6 + Volcano
-Custom built Solidoodle 3 clone w/ E3D v6+ Volcano    -Solidoodle Press w/ E3D Lite6
Filastruder #1577

2

Re: Autotuning PID

M500 is a separate command sent after your PID numbers

so you would do something like this:
     M301 P19.56 I0.71 D134.26  >enter
     M500 >enter

SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
Printit Industries Beta Tester - Horizon H1

3

Re: Autotuning PID

300 with a fan is likely on the edge of what the heater can do. What's the heater's resistance?

4

Re: Autotuning PID

heartless wrote:

M500 is a separate command sent after your PID numbers

so you would do something like this:
     M301 P19.56 I0.71 D134.26  >enter
     M500 >enter

Thank you heartless for the reply. That helps a lot.


elmoret, the heater has a resistance of 6 ohms.

-Prusa i3 MK2s
-Airwolf HD2x w/ E3D v6 + Volcano
-Custom built Solidoodle 3 clone w/ E3D v6+ Volcano    -Solidoodle Press w/ E3D Lite6
Filastruder #1577

5

Re: Autotuning PID

That's a 24 watt heater. 24 watts isn't enough for 300C and a nozzle fan.

If it has a 6mm diameter, you can grab a 40w replacement from my store.

6

Re: Autotuning PID

elmoret wrote:

That's a 24 watt heater. 24 watts isn't enough for 300C and a nozzle fan.

If it has a 6mm diameter, you can grab a 40w replacement from my store.

I'd love to upgrade, but I have no idea what I'm looking at. Here's a picture, can you point me in the right direction?

http://i.imgur.com/Eez8G7c.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/JRfoCHq.jpg

-Prusa i3 MK2s
-Airwolf HD2x w/ E3D v6 + Volcano
-Custom built Solidoodle 3 clone w/ E3D v6+ Volcano    -Solidoodle Press w/ E3D Lite6
Filastruder #1577

7

Re: Autotuning PID

http://soliforum.com/i/?EaujbS0.jpg

The green thing in the circled area is the heater cartridge and should be removable from that block so it can be changed/upgraded fairly easily

SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
Printit Industries Beta Tester - Horizon H1

8 (edited by josh.aeauto 2015-07-16 17:50:00)

Re: Autotuning PID

heartless wrote:

The green thing in the circled area is the heater cartridge and should be removable from that block so it can be changed/upgraded fairly easily

Ahhhhh, okay, that part does slide faily easy and it is 6mm.

-Prusa i3 MK2s
-Airwolf HD2x w/ E3D v6 + Volcano
-Custom built Solidoodle 3 clone w/ E3D v6+ Volcano    -Solidoodle Press w/ E3D Lite6
Filastruder #1577

9 (edited by IronMan 2015-07-16 17:55:47)

Re: Autotuning PID

From their website:

"The HD2x comes standard with Airwolf’s new proprietary JR2x dual high temperature hot end"

One option would be to adapt to a Chimera from Filastruder:

http://www.filastruder.com/products/chimera-cyclops

but that would entail a custom mount of your own design and most likely updating your nozzle offset distance.

If your hot ends are functioning I would stick with trying to replace the cartridge heaters to 40W if they the 6mm diameter as elmoret suggested.

EDIT: A little late with this..

SD2 - Stock - Enclosure - Heated Bed - Glass Plate - Auto Fire Extinguisher
Ord Bot Hadron - RAMPS 1.4 - Bulldog XL - E3D v6 - 10" x 10" PCB Heated Build w/SSR - Glass Plate
Thanks for All of Your Help!

10

Re: Autotuning PID

josh.aeauto wrote:
heartless wrote:

The green thing in the circled area is the heater cartridge and should be removable from that block so it can be changed/upgraded fairly easily

Ahhhhh, okay, that part does slide faily easy and it is 6mm.

It slides easily without loosening any type of screw?  If it is not tight, you could be losing some heat transfer...

SD2 - Stock - Enclosure - Heated Bed - Glass Plate - Auto Fire Extinguisher
Ord Bot Hadron - RAMPS 1.4 - Bulldog XL - E3D v6 - 10" x 10" PCB Heated Build w/SSR - Glass Plate
Thanks for All of Your Help!

11

Re: Autotuning PID

there ya go. smile go order the 40w replacement from elmoret's store - filastruder.com

SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
Printit Industries Beta Tester - Horizon H1

12

Re: Autotuning PID

IronMan wrote:

It slides easily without loosening any type of screw?  If it is not tight, you could be losing some heat transfer...

There's not a screw to be loosened. When I say "fairly easy" i mean applying about a pound of force with a blunt tool. Do you think that could be part of my problem? Seems like a design problem to me.

-Prusa i3 MK2s
-Airwolf HD2x w/ E3D v6 + Volcano
-Custom built Solidoodle 3 clone w/ E3D v6+ Volcano    -Solidoodle Press w/ E3D Lite6
Filastruder #1577

13

Re: Autotuning PID

josh.aeauto wrote:
IronMan wrote:

It slides easily without loosening any type of screw?  If it is not tight, you could be losing some heat transfer...

There's not a screw to be loosened. When I say "fairly easy" i mean applying about a pound of force with a blunt tool. Do you think that could be part of my problem? Seems like a design problem to me.

Sounds OK as long as it was not loosey-goosey(tech term).  I would have designed it with a hard screw-type clamping feature...

SD2 - Stock - Enclosure - Heated Bed - Glass Plate - Auto Fire Extinguisher
Ord Bot Hadron - RAMPS 1.4 - Bulldog XL - E3D v6 - 10" x 10" PCB Heated Build w/SSR - Glass Plate
Thanks for All of Your Help!

14

Re: Autotuning PID

Yeah, the old way was to use a setscrew, but that wasn't all that much better. The correct way is a clamping style fixture, like E3Dv6's:

http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0239/9287/products/hotend_wired_4web-228x228_1024x1024.jpg?v=1400539013

Are they really only using one 24w heater for that huge block? Yikes.

You should be fine drilling and tapping a set screw and using a 40w heater. You could also try wrapping the heater block in high temperature insulation.

15

Re: Autotuning PID

I was wanting to go with something non-proprietary because their replacement parts are really expensive. A single replacement .5mm nozzle is $33


elmoret wrote:

Are they really only using one 24w heater for that huge block? Yikes.

You should be fine drilling and tapping a set screw and using a 40w heater. You could also try wrapping the heater block in high temperature insulation.

Yea, and it's a dual extruder at that - so a single heater for both.
Those are some good ideas. I'll go ahead and place an order for a heater and try to insulate it after I put it in.

-Prusa i3 MK2s
-Airwolf HD2x w/ E3D v6 + Volcano
-Custom built Solidoodle 3 clone w/ E3D v6+ Volcano    -Solidoodle Press w/ E3D Lite6
Filastruder #1577

16

Re: Autotuning PID

elmoret wrote:

Are they really only using one 24w heater for that huge block? Yikes.

I didn't notice that...one heater for both nozzles?
A - not enough power...
B - how do you print ABS / PLA combinations which would require 2 separate heat settings?

SD2 - Stock - Enclosure - Heated Bed - Glass Plate - Auto Fire Extinguisher
Ord Bot Hadron - RAMPS 1.4 - Bulldog XL - E3D v6 - 10" x 10" PCB Heated Build w/SSR - Glass Plate
Thanks for All of Your Help!

17

Re: Autotuning PID

IronMan wrote:

B - how do you print ABS / PLA combinations which would require 2 separate heat settings?

That was exactly what I asked them after I bought the printer and realized the nozzles weren't separately controlled. Their solution is to use "compatible materials"

-Prusa i3 MK2s
-Airwolf HD2x w/ E3D v6 + Volcano
-Custom built Solidoodle 3 clone w/ E3D v6+ Volcano    -Solidoodle Press w/ E3D Lite6
Filastruder #1577

18 (edited by carl_m1968 2015-07-16 18:38:24)

Re: Autotuning PID

I would also switch to a cartridge type heater for the fact those heaters you are  using are nothing but high wattage low ohm resistors that reach near red hot temps and burn out easily and are more of a fire hazard.

Those types of heaters are very old out dated tech from before the 12 and 24 volt cartridges where introduced.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
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19

Re: Autotuning PID

josh.aeauto wrote:

I was wanting to go with something non-proprietary because their replacement parts are really expensive. A single replacement .5mm nozzle is $33.

You could move to an E3Dv6, E3D Lite6, pair of either of those, Cyclops, or Chimera... but you'd have to come up with your own mounting solution.

Based on your past mods, I'd say that won't be a problem for you. big_smile

20

Re: Autotuning PID

josh.aeauto wrote:
IronMan wrote:

B - how do you print ABS / PLA combinations which would require 2 separate heat settings?

That was exactly what I asked them after I bought the printer and realized the nozzles weren't separately controlled. Their solution is to use "compatible materials"

Wow...and last I knew, the TPU / ABS combination they used in their demo video would require around 180/230C respectively...I could be wrong as I never ran TPU, but the EcoFlex I run needs about 180 as well.

SD2 - Stock - Enclosure - Heated Bed - Glass Plate - Auto Fire Extinguisher
Ord Bot Hadron - RAMPS 1.4 - Bulldog XL - E3D v6 - 10" x 10" PCB Heated Build w/SSR - Glass Plate
Thanks for All of Your Help!

21

Re: Autotuning PID

elmoret wrote:

You could move to an E3Dv6, E3D Lite6, pair of either of those, Cyclops, or Chimera... but you'd have to come up with your own mounting solution.

Airwolf's mounting solution was to 3D print their own polycarbonate case that snaps onto the guide rod bearings. I'm sure something similar would work... although I will probably need guidance from some certain other more experienced individuals roll

-Prusa i3 MK2s
-Airwolf HD2x w/ E3D v6 + Volcano
-Custom built Solidoodle 3 clone w/ E3D v6+ Volcano    -Solidoodle Press w/ E3D Lite6
Filastruder #1577