1 Topic by master_eto

  • master_eto
  • Newbie
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2015-05-23
  • Posts: 5

Topic: 2.85 users help diameter variance high

going through initial purge, seems to be cleared out from half the supplied bag already. i didnt need to file anything so i guess there wasnt much to clean..but i was wondering what is a good height/temp combo for the supplied pellets? im trying to extrude 2.85mm. currently i have my filastruder 44" from the ground with the nozzle 49" horizontally mounted and temp set to 176. I've got it overhanging what its sitting on as to give the filament nothing to hit while coiling, which i found greatly reduced ramen. im getting diameters anywhere from 2.70-3.0 with the rare diameter of 2.50-3.10. my initial thoughts are that the unit is placed to low as my "coil pile" isnt falling in a neat circle, its seems more like a mess, also the fact that 2.85 is stiffer than 1.75. im guessing that the uneven coiling changes the pull weight resulting in my diameter variance. how high would a reasonable distance be and wouldnt that mean lowering temps far below my current setting? im also not using the melt filter nozzle just yet. is there a big tolerance difference when i switch? sorry if im making this long winded, just wanted to give all the info about this in one shot

2 Reply by elmoret

  • elmoret
  • Filastruder
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2012-10-11
  • Posts: 6,048

Re: 2.85 users help diameter variance high

48 inches is appropriate for 1.75mm filament. Double it for 3mm, and consider going vertical and/or using a winder.

Also +/-0.15mm isn't too bad at 3.0mm filament, that's +/-5% variation. +/-0.05mm variation on 1.75mm filament is +/-3%, for reference.

The percentage tolerance is what matters.

Filastruder - the robust, inexpensive filament extruder
E3Dv6 All Metal Hotend - the premier 3D printing hotend

3 Reply by master_eto

  • master_eto
  • Newbie
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2015-05-23
  • Posts: 5

Re: 2.85 users help diameter variance high

If i double the height that should fix my problem of having a clean even coiling of filament right? that would also mean id have to reduce temps to compensate for increased pull right? and by how much. +/-5% and +/-0.03% seems like a pretty big difference isnt it? isnt the usual goal +/-0.05 for any diameter filament? even at 5% how drastic will that effect my flowrate for under/over extrusion. sure i could average it across the line. im using an ultimaker and i dont know how tolerant the bowden is.  so the biggest concern i think for me, is .15mm not that bad? and when i raise the height i should get even coils that keep the pull of gravity constant while the increased and even pull helps eliminate ramen? i have a horizontal hopper and at most would only want to tilt it maybe 30 deg. if any. as for the temp any suggestions on that? and im guessing that until the line fully touches the ground, it wont have enough pull to reach my target size so just chop of the beginning?

4 Reply by elmoret

  • elmoret
  • Filastruder
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2012-10-11
  • Posts: 6,048

Re: 2.85 users help diameter variance high

master_eto wrote:

If i double the height that should fix my problem of having a clean even coiling of filament right?

It would improve it, yes.

master_eto wrote:

that would also mean id have to reduce temps to compensate for increased pull right?

No. The 2.85mm average would become a ~2.7mm average, which still feeds fine in a 3mm design.

master_eto wrote:

+/-5% and +/-0.03% seems like a pretty big difference isnt it?

Check my post - I said +/-5% and +/-3% are pretty close.

master_eto wrote:

isnt the usual goal +/-0.05 for any diameter filament?

No, as I explained above the dimensional tolerance scales with the diameter. The *percentage* is what impacts over/under extrusion. Filament that is 3% bigger than the slicer thinks will have the same amount of over extrusion no matter 1.75mm or 3.0mm.

master_eto wrote:

even at 5% how drastic will that effect my flowrate for under/over extrusion. sure i could average it across the line. im using an ultimaker and i dont know how tolerant the bowden is.

The Bowden tubing will handle up to about 3.0mm.

master_eto wrote:

and im guessing that until the line fully touches the ground, it wont have enough pull to reach my target size so just chop of the beginning?

Correct, the first few feet of any run is garbage.

Filastruder - the robust, inexpensive filament extruder
E3Dv6 All Metal Hotend - the premier 3D printing hotend

5 Reply by Ggalisky (edited by Ggalisky 2015-05-26 02:17:30)

  • Ggalisky
  • Ggalisky
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: California
  • Registered: 2014-05-21
  • Posts: 487

Re: 2.85 users help diameter variance high

elmoret wrote:

Correct, the first few feet of any run is garbage.

Correct, the first few feet of any run is *recyclable*! wink

master_eto wrote:

im using an ultimaker and i dont know how tolerant the bowden is.  so the biggest concern i think for me, is .15mm not that bad?

I use an Ultimaker 2, and my filament usually measures in at about 2.65mm. I have actually founder the printer performs better with 2.65 than 2.85-3.0.

Here is a little write up on 3mm ABS extrusion. It may not be super helpful since you do not have a winder, but here you go anways: http://www.soliforum.com/topic/10731/abs-3mm-extrusion/

Ulitmaker 2, a few repraps, Custom Big FFF 3D printer with heated chamber.

My Blog http://ggalisky.weebly.com/
My Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXShYo … aDUpebDAOw

6 Reply by master_eto

  • master_eto
  • Newbie
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2015-05-23
  • Posts: 5

Re: 2.85 users help diameter variance high

Hey guys first thanks for answering my questions, I wanted to ask a few more. Elmoret, you said that i should double my height. that would be around 100 inches from the ground, that seems pretty high isnt it? at that height wont the filament be pulled and thinned out too much? unless i reduce the temps by allot? or is temp exponential to pull weight? im guessing i should measure it with calipers a bit after it touches the ground and starts coiling? if it does end up becoming thinned out, that could be a benefit to me as Ggalisky said about diameter regarding ultimaker. BTW Ggalisky how has 2.65 compared to 2.85? is there reduced friction and or retraction blobbing as i would imagine? also with any printer theres no problem with a smaller diameter working without problem right (as much as with a bigger diameter)? i just switched to the machined nozzle with melt filter and did a test extrusion, noticed some dirt specs coming out. i just need to have the plastic purge that part right? and for the first few garbage feet it should handle that. also checked and at current temp not even touching the ground diameter comes out 3.1-3.2 so with that im sure that 100 inches would be great for anything 2.6-2.9 does that sound right? answers from anyone and everyone welcome. thanks

7 Reply by elmoret

  • elmoret
  • Filastruder
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2012-10-11
  • Posts: 6,048

Re: 2.85 users help diameter variance high

master_eto wrote:

Hey guys first thanks for answering my questions, I wanted to ask a few more. Elmoret, you said that i should double my height. that would be around 100 inches from the ground, that seems pretty high isnt it? at that height wont the filament be pulled and thinned out too much?

No, like I said it will reduce diameter by around 0.15mm, which will result in filament averaging 2.7mm - and this is still fine for feeding a Ultimaker, just set the slicer accordingly.

master_eto wrote:

i just switched to the machined nozzle with melt filter and did a test extrusion, noticed some dirt specs coming out. i just need to have the plastic purge that part right?

If debris is in the filament after the melt filter nozzle, then the inside of the melt filter nozzle got dirty somehow. Yes, it will clean itself like you describe.

master_eto wrote:

also checked and at current temp not even touching the ground diameter comes out 3.1-3.2 so with that im sure that 100 inches would be great for anything 2.6-2.9 does that sound right? answers from anyone and everyone welcome.

Yes.

Filastruder - the robust, inexpensive filament extruder
E3Dv6 All Metal Hotend - the premier 3D printing hotend

8 Reply by master_eto

  • master_eto
  • Newbie
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2015-05-23
  • Posts: 5

Re: 2.85 users help diameter variance high

just rolled up my first batch of filament and tested it out. even though my filament was +/- .15-.2mm starting at 2.65 i threw it in my ultimaker and had no under/over extrusion. im surprised at how perfect everything printed with what seemed like a horrible tolerance my hopes started kinda low for that one im glad im wrong thank u elmoret. diameter tolerance is probably due to the fact that as my coils wind on the floor they vary the pull on the strand. but apparently do no harm in practice so im happy...now that my filament is good, i unfortunately have to fix a shifting y problem...

9 Reply by richh001

  • richh001
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2015-01-30
  • Posts: 75

Re: 2.85 users help diameter variance high

I am making filament that is 2.95-3mm and am having no issues at all.

10 Reply by JoaoGripp

  • JoaoGripp
  • Newbie
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2016-11-28
  • Posts: 4

Re: 2.85 users help diameter variance high

richh001, could you share your configuration? pictures if possible?
Cheers