26

Re: replace every belt and pulley with GT2?

pirvan wrote:
jagowilson wrote:

I still say fishing line is better than GT2s based on the design of higher end printers I've seen which use a braided line stock. I have some coming (thanks wardjr), can't wait to install it.

I'm not a big proponent of fishing line. 

I had a Printrbot Simple which used fishing line for the XY transport and everyone I know of that had one, tried everything they could to minimize slippage. 

Over a long print, slippage is all but inevitable with fishing line.  We tried sand paper on the pulleys, we tried neoprene tubing, we tried toothed pulleys, we even tried the fishing line directly on the motor shaft,  There was always some slippage.  The longer the print went, the more it slipped and the print deviated, which made tall prints look like they were leaning.

Long story short, Printrbot gave up on the fishing line and redesigned the PB Simple to use GT2 belts.

Just my $0.02 on the fishing line subject.

I think the culprit of slipping is the line itself.  Certain line is difficult to get and keep tight.  I have tried many different styles and have settled on Sufix brand as being the best.  It doesn't matter how long my prints are I have never experienced any slippage.  I really don't see how slippage would cause a print to lean to just one side.  If the line truely slipped that would show up in both directions of an axis. 
Now I've never owned a PrinterBot so I am certainly not saying you are wrong.  I feel that we all find what works best for our needs.  For me that's fishing line and for you it's GT2 belts.  I figure since we both seem to get better results than most we both must be doing something right wink

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

27

Re: replace every belt and pulley with GT2?

Ever seen the prints that come off a Tantillus? http://www.tantillus.org/Gallery.html

A cute and awesome little machine that runs on fishing line.

28

Re: replace every belt and pulley with GT2?

wardjr wrote:

I think the culprit of slipping is the line itself.  Certain line is difficult to get and keep tight.  I have tried many different styles and have settled on Sufix brand as being the best.  It doesn't matter how long my prints are I have never experienced any slippage.  I really don't see how slippage would cause a print to lean to just one side.  If the line truely slipped that would show up in both directions of an axis. 
Now I've never owned a PrinterBot so I am certainly not saying you are wrong.  I feel that we all find what works best for our needs.  For me that's fishing line and for you it's GT2 belts.  I figure since we both seem to get better results than most we both must be doing something right wink

I tried various type of fishing line, in fact, Printrbot changed fishing line types and manufacturers a couple of times and sent out replacement over a period of time, but none really fixed the problem.  I think the best results were when I put a neoprene tubing sleeve on the shaft directly, and used the flat type fishing line.

Anyway, it always had problems.  The side walls in the print were never smooth, and for some reason, the taller print always leaned forward ("Y" direction).  Not a lot, but enough to be noticeable.   A year or so later, Printrbot came up with a couple of new versions of the PB Simple (Maker and Metal), and both changed to GT2 belts.  There were other changes in the little machine to be sure (new extruder, new rods, heated bed, etc), but the design remained the same.  The print quality is night and day over the old printer.

Anyway, you're right, if fishing line works for you, all the better, never did for me, but the belt system does.  Maybe one of these days I'll get off my butt and complete my ball screw printer build.  The I won't have to worry about belts at all.

To print or, 3D print, that is the question...
SD3 printer w/too many mods,  Printrbot Simple Maker Ed.,  FormLabs Form 1+
AnyCubic Photon, Shining 3D EinScan-S & Atlas 3D scanners...
...and too much time on my hands.

29

Re: replace every belt and pulley with GT2?

pirvan wrote:

Anyway, you're right, if fishing line works for you, all the better, never did for me, but the belt system does.  Maybe one of these days I'll get off my butt and complete my ball screw printer build.  The I won't have to worry about belts at all.


That sounds like a fun project smile

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

30 (edited by redbarret 2015-01-29 14:07:10)

Re: replace every belt and pulley with GT2?

Oh my god, I swear if these chinese sellers on ebay aren't the stupidest in the world!

I tell him I want the stuff shipped faster via DHL, says no problem. Then after several days after I made the payment he responds telling he misread my address and they don't ship outside of the US. he knows I need the stuff as fast as possible and wastes over a week with me explaining what I need several times and then keeping my money for another few days before he bothers reading the address, even though I had explicitly mentioned before that I'm outside of US.

Then I find another seller, seems to have what I need. I contact him, and no response, contact again, and again. Nothing for 4 days.
Then I compare the item images and it seems to be the same seller with dublicate accounts. Like WTF?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/5x-GT2-Aluminum … TQ:US:1123
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GT2-Aluminum-Ti … TQ:US:1123

Why waste my time. Why not say this is another store of yours? if you want to keep it as secret, why not say you don't ship outside of US again and pretend you're another seller.
How stupid are these people??

Does anyone know any other seller that has the two kinds of pulleys and belt? I've wasted more than a week with this fool.

And this exact same thing has happened with another ebay seller before when I was buying flanged bearings and LM8UUs...

Please link me to another seller on ebay that you know that has 5mm bore, 6mm bore pulleys and 180mm belt, I cant find any. Or some other site that sells it, or pm me and sell me yours if you have extra.

Solidoodle 4

31 (edited by redbarret 2015-01-30 21:25:18)

Re: replace every belt and pulley with GT2?

Bump. Still cant find anywhere else where I can buy the stuff. The 6mm bore pulley is missing, only 6.35mm (1/4inch) ones available...

Solidoodle 4

32

Re: replace every belt and pulley with GT2?

You could get a 5mm bore and drill it out to 6 (carefully).

33

Re: replace every belt and pulley with GT2?

I doubt that.

Solidoodle 4

34

Re: replace every belt and pulley with GT2?

... You're going to need 5mm bore for the motors. So what are your concerns? A fresh sharp drill bit will go right through aluminum.

35

Re: replace every belt and pulley with GT2?

I just doubt being able to cut a perfect straight and centered hole with just a dremel...

Solidoodle 4

36

Re: replace every belt and pulley with GT2?

Speed mart got two orders with 6mm bore pulleys thru to me in about 7 days, no issues.  So if it is a last resort, PM me and I will order more and send them to you anywhere at cost.  What country are you in?

SD4 w/ RUMBA, E3D Volcano, all bearings, glass bed

37

Re: replace every belt and pulley with GT2?

Thanks mate. I'll send you a pm shortly.

Solidoodle 4

38 (edited by redbarret 2015-02-05 18:07:49)

Re: replace every belt and pulley with GT2?

I've asked mdrVB6 to order the two GT2 pulleys and belt and resend it to me because the seller was ignoring my every attempt to contact him. Thanks again, mdrVB6.
Hopefully I'll have them in few days and will test this theory.

Solidoodle 4

39 (edited by TickTock 2015-03-15 22:59:54)

Re: replace every belt and pulley with GT2?

I just finished replacing all my Y gears and belts with GT2.  I also added a 1:2 reduction by means of a 20 tooth on the stepper and a 40 tooth on the 6mm drive rod.   The 40 tooth gear just barely clears the back wall but it does clear.  Since it was the short belt that wore out causing the backlash, I figured reducing the strain on it via reduction could help the belt last longer (and the extra resolution couldn't hurt either).  All I give up is speed which I have never been close to maxing out on.  After calibration, my steps per mm for the Y axis in the eeprom config went from 88 to 159.5.

I can see why the GT2 is better wrt backlash.  The teeth are deeper than the stock belts and I suspect don't fully bottom out in the GT2 pulleys so as the belt wears you just need to re-tighten to take up the backlash.  I also like that the gears are solid metal instead of the plastic on metal that came stock.  The backlash I could feel does appear to be eliminated.

http://www.soliforum.com/misc.php?action=pun_attachment&item=8269

Post's attachments

GT2Y.jpg 304.45 kb, file has never been downloaded. 

You don't have the permssions to download the attachments of this post.

40

Re: replace every belt and pulley with GT2?

Here's the first print (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:528775) after the GT2 upgrade.  My banding on the front and back planes are back to as good as I ever had although there is still some room for improvement.
http://www.soliforum.com/misc.php?action=pun_attachment&item=8270

Post's attachments

postGT2.jpg
postGT2.jpg 197.84 kb, file has never been downloaded. 

You don't have the permssions to download the attachments of this post.

41

Re: replace every belt and pulley with GT2?

Good to hear.
Please try this circle test and post a top down photo http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:532915

As for me, nothing has been delivered yet. Not the gt2 belt and pulleys, nor the Mk2 heatbeds I ordered. And the dial indicator I ordered in december.
I wonder whats up.

Solidoodle 4

42

Re: replace every belt and pulley with GT2?

Will do.  BTW, I bought all my gears and belts (they *are* reinforced) from speedmart on eBay.  The 202mm GT2 was perfect for the 20T+40T combo but too big for 20T+20T and I couldn't find a 40T GT2 with a 6mm bore so I bought one with a 5mm bore and drill it out myself to 6mm (drilled with a 15/64th bit chucked into the tailstock on the lathe and used an adjustable reamer to take it the rest of the way since I don't own a set of metric bits).  I also had to knock down the rims a bit  to keep it from rubbing on the back panel.

43

Re: replace every belt and pulley with GT2?

Circles
http://www.soliforum.com/misc.php?action=pun_attachment&item=8273

Post's attachments

circles.jpg
circles.jpg 134.92 kb, file has never been downloaded. 

You don't have the permssions to download the attachments of this post.

44

Re: replace every belt and pulley with GT2?

Bam. Nice work!

SD3. Mk2b + glass, heated enclosure, GT2 belts, direct drive y shaft, linear bearings, bowden-feed E3D v5 w/ 0.9° stepper
Smoothieboard via Octoprint on RPi

45

Re: replace every belt and pulley with GT2?

There we go smile

I'm willing to bet the looped belt and and 2 pulleys its on is all that's making the difference. Thought that might not be true if you try to print faster now.

Solidoodle 4

46

Re: replace every belt and pulley with GT2?

redbarret wrote:

There we go smile

I'm willing to bet the looped belt and and 2 pulleys its on is all that's making the difference. Thought that might not be true if you try to print faster now.

Are you talking about the short continuous belt from the stepper to the 6mm shaft?  If so, I agree.  I could feel noticeable backlash when I grabbed the stepper pulley and wiggled the top pulley.  I could feel the belt moving back and forth between the front teeth and back teeth despite having quite a bit of tension in it.  This is what prompted me to look for something better.  Direct drive is probably even better but I thought I'd try the belt upgrade first.  I figure the long open belts connecting to the carriage would eventually wear out as well but they didn't seem to have any backlash, yet, that I could detect.  I replaced them anyway, though, as long as I had the printer open.  Probably will do the X axis, too, some day.

I also replaced the two pulleys and pulley holders on the front with a modified version of this (had to change the bearing surface to match the bearings I had on hand).  These are much stronger that the original and prone to less flex.

47

Re: replace every belt and pulley with GT2?

TickTock wrote:

Direct drive is probably even better but I thought I'd try the belt upgrade first.

I'm not really a fan. Ultimaker has a similar non direct driven Y axis and it works fine. Many printers work that way.
The reason I'm not a fan, the relatively weak break prone ABS printed part aside, and the general ugliness aside, is how much it flexes the 1mm Solidoodle frame. Not a good sign in my opinion.

I figure the long open belts connecting to the carriage would eventually wear out as well but they didn't seem to have any backlash, yet, that I could detect.  I replaced them anyway, though, as long as I had the printer open.  Probably will do the X axis, too, some day.

The issue to me is not the belts wearing out (they do if you don't align the pulleys well and the sides of the belts rub on them and delaminate), but the MXL belt teeth deforming at high tension, as the Reprap wiki mentions.
There's not much tension on the sides in Solidoodle, but quite a bit like you said on the Y motor belt. But probably enough tension will build up on all of them if you try printing fast enough.

I also replaced the two pulleys and pulley holders on the front with a modified version of this (had to change the bearing surface to match the bearings I had on hand).  These are much stronger that the original and prone to less flex.

What have you modified? A nut slot and two holes for fastening instead of 1 (Solidoodle 3 ) would be nice.

Solidoodle 4

48

Re: replace every belt and pulley with GT2?

Yup.  I added both holes for the mount and resized it a bit so the original 3mm screw would reach all the way through and engage the lock nuts properly.  I had a bunch of F623zz bearings (3X10X4) I needed to use so I made it work with that.

I just uploaded it to TV (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:731769) if anyone wants it.