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SoliForum - 3D Printing Community → Hacks & Mods → replace every belt and pulley with GT2?
I've been meaning to replace all the trapezoidal belts and pulleys on my Solidoodle 4 with GT2s and compare my print results.
Anyone done this?
There's a bunch of GT2 pulleys and belts on eBay but I'm not sure what to use in place of the short looped Y motor belt...
One of the reasons this is less discussed, is because while you can upgrade to GT2, you may as well upgrade to fishing line (cheaper and just as good if not better.)
The only place I see Gt2 maybe making sense is the Y-loop, because it's a relatively high torque application (twice that of the two bars that it spreads to) and I don't know that there's anyway to do the fishing line on loops like that.
Yeah, I've tried fishing line as well and I too don't see a way it could be used for the Y-loop.
So I want to find out if there's a GT2 equivalent for it, and while I'm at it, also use GT2 on everything else and compare the results of stock pulleys/belts vs GT2 vs fishing line.
I reckon GT2 wasn't much of an improvement on the MXL for the axes, but have little to prove that with - I did so much fiddling around at the same time it's all blended together. I'd love to see an objective comparison if you're game to do one!
Likely if you're going to see improvement anywhere it would be on that drivebelt, the mechanism seems to amplify any errors introduced there. At the same time, it is possible to bolt the y motor on a bracket outside the case and drive the shaft directly if you want to eliminate that belt completely.
not sure what to use in place of the short looped Y motor belt...
A g2 belt !! seriously though any plce that sells motion control supplies should carry a variety of lengths
http://www.sdp-si.com/D805/D805_PDFS/se … 502136.pdf
For some reason Mcmaster carr does not seem to carry that belt series.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#timing-belts/=uyvj7q
Tin
Forgot about this thread.
A g2 belt !! seriously though any plce that sells motion control supplies should carry a variety of lengths
yeah, but what's the length of the stock Solidoodle MXL closed loop belt? it will need to be the same or very close.
Can't find that info anywhere in the spec sheets.
is this it?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GT2-Timing-Belt … 20e3e21bcb
or this?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2Pcs-GT2-Timing … 418e0aed0b
As for the pulleys, 20 teeth and 2mm pitch, right?
I will be switching from the stock belts to GT2 on all axis with direct drive this weekend, the parts finally got here. Also installing bearing on the idlers. Don't forget to calculate your new steps per mm and input it into firmware and/or EEPROM. I plan on do test prints with 1/16 and 1/32 microstepping to see if there is any visible difference. I'm not sure what would happen if you put GT2 on the Y carriages but left the motor loop as MXL (I think thats it) belt, but I don't want to find out. Let us know if you try it.
I don't think switching to GT2 for side belts will make much difference. Direct drive working perfectly with them is an indication of this.
But still might provide some advantages, like for faster printing.
I'll try a GT2 belt/pulleys on the motor and report my results, but again, what's the length of the belt?
this?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GT2-Timing-Belt … 20e3e21bcb
maybe this?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2Pcs-GT2-Timing … 418e0aed0b
Forgot about this thread.
Tin Falcon wrote:A g2 belt !! seriously though any plce that sells motion control supplies should carry a variety of lengths
yeah, but what's the length of the stock Solidoodle MXL closed loop belt? it will need to be the same or very close.
Can't find that info anywhere in the spec sheets.is this it?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GT2-Timing-Belt … 20e3e21bcbor this?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2Pcs-GT2-Timing … 418e0aed0bAs for the pulleys, 20 teeth and 2mm pitch, right?
OK, I just finished my GT2 conversion.
First the closed loop belt. Get a 180-2GT. The MXL belt is 176mm long, so this one is close as it gets.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261645554317?_t … EBIDX%3AIT
As for the pulleys, get the 20T ones. That translates into 80 steps/mm Nice even number, if you get 18T you'll end up with something like 88.8888. Anyway, you will need 5 - 5mm pulleys and 3 - 6mm ones.
I ended up getting mine from the vendor below. A 5 pack each of 5mm and 6mm T20 GT pulleys.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/141303491549?_t … EBIDX%3AIT
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261331033474?_t … EBIDX%3AIT
Good luck
Thanks pirvan!
BTW whats the difference between these two designs?
Both have 20 teeth and both can have the same hole diameter.
BTW whats the difference between these two designs?
Both have 20 teeth and both can have the same hole diameter.
Top on has more room for the larger set screws.
Are the 6mm bore pulleys actually 6.3mm, or am I missing something? Searching myself I only see 6.3 in the descriptions, except the one linked...
Are the 6mm bore pulleys actually 6.3mm, or am I missing something? Searching myself I only see 6.3 in the descriptions, except the one linked...
I'm not sure what you're looking at, but the pulleys I got (the ones I listed above) have 6mm bores, not 6.3mm. The actual measurement I got with my caliper, was 6.05mm. I'd say that just about right.
My GT2 mod is complete and there are some pics here (same as the album from Pirvan's alternate belt tension thread):
I also got my 6mm bore pulley from the ebay seller speed_mart and they are high quality:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/141303482382?_t … EBIDX%3AIT
Thanks for the link. It also has a long list of countries and regions it doesn't ship to. I contacted the seller about this, as well as the seller linked by pirvan, both haven't responded.
Is there anyone else I can buy from? I can't find anything other than 6.35 mm bore (1/4''),5 and 8.
Thanks for the link. It also has a long list of countries and regions it doesn't ship to. I contacted the seller about this, as well as the seller linked by pirvan, both haven't responded.
Is there anyone else I can buy from? I can't find anything other than 6.35 mm bore (1/4''),5 and 8.
Both links, mine and mdrVB6 are for the same seller, just different item.
Where are you located?
If you're in North America, you shouldn't have a problem.
$60 for shipping via dhl to europe... a bit high.
But found another seller. Should get in a week or two.
As for a 180mm belt, found this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GT2-180-186-188 … 7b90dbf69c
Weird thing, the seller isn't sure if the belt is reinforced and the description just says it's made of "rubber".
But it's a timing belt, surely it must be reinforced.
Just look at the photo of the product,
right?
The MXLs have what I believe is copper and cotton on the inside (based on the smell I got when I burned some holes in some for bolts), but that picture there seems like it's damaged. I might be wrong but exposed support like that, at least for MXLs, shows that the belt has frayed and lost the outer coating. This happened to me with the short motor belt and I had to replace it because it started stretching.
I still say fishing line is better than GT2s based on the design of higher end printers I've seen which use a braided line stock. I have some coming (thanks wardjr), can't wait to install it.
Just my opinion, but you should really reconsider going to direct drive on the Y. That extra belt is just another source of potential backlash. Look back in Pirvan's post history and see where he determined that the belt flexing when changing directions was the cause of infill lines not meeting perimeters. He devised a bearing roller to tension that belt so if you feel that you must have it, at least put the tension roller on it. But it is actually simpler to go to direct drive, in my opinion.
Just my opinion, but you should really reconsider going to direct drive on the Y.
I have. I've ordered two couplers a month ago, should be here anytime soon.
This is mainly for sake of knowledge.
Alternative solutions are good. For example if someone wishes to keep the stock enclosure.
Someone who switched to direct drive setup also mentioned getting a "shifting" issue lately. So I don't know if it's a 100% working solution yet either.
My theory currently is, from what I've learned from others, MXL trapezoidal teeth are not good as timing belts when it comes to high tensions. Unlike all the other belts on Solidoodle, the motor belt gets a lot more tension and the teeth deform, causing backlash.
The RepRap wiki also has something to say about this:
They (GT2 belts) use a rounded tooth profile that guarantees that the belt tooth fits smoothly and accurately in the pulley groove, so when you reverse the pulley direction, there is no room for the belt to move in the groove
http://reprap.org/wiki/GT2_Timing_Belt
This seems exactly the issue with the MXL belt.
Also mentioned here:
- On drives using a low installation tension, small pulleys, and light loads, the backlash of the GT system will be slightly better than the trapezoidal (MXL) timing belt system. However, with increased tension and/or loads and/or pulley sizes, the performance of the GT system becomes significantly better than the trapezoidal timing belt system.
http://file.lasersaur.com/docs-thirdpar … _Belts.pdf
So what I'm going to try first is just replace the two pulleys and belt of the Y motor with GT2 and see if it fixes it. If it does, then this seems to me a lot easier and still inexpensive solution to the problem.
still say fishing line is better than GT2s based on the design of higher end printers I've seen which use a braided line stock. I have some coming (thanks wardjr), can't wait to install it.
Which printers are you referring to?
I have braided lines too. It wasn't hard to use. I went back to belts because I was afraid of getting binding in mid-print, though it never happened in my tests. Every belt except the motor belt doesn't seem to get much tension to cause backlash for a fishing line upgrade to be worth it to me personally. And getting the fishing line in place of the closed loop motor belt seems tricky, though wardjr has proven it's possible.
The fusion 3 comes to mind, there a couple other kits I can't remember that include fishing line as well. http://www.fusion3design.com/. There is also one other high end machine I can't remember.
The point is teeth will always have play so why buy something else with teeth? The teeth might mesh better and be more accurate than MXLs, but they will still have play. This is just by definition. In my experience any gear without play is seized up!
$60 for shipping via dhl to europe... a bit high.
But found another seller. Should get in a week or two.
As for a 180mm belt, found this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-GT2-Timing … TM:US:1123Weird thing, the seller isn't sure if the belt is reinforced and the description just says it's made of "rubber".
But it's a timing belt, surely it must be reinforced.
Just look at the photo of the product,right?
Looks fine, but...
It's going to be too long. This is a 188mm belt. At that length, you will not be able to tighten it, without lengthening the slots for the motor mount. 180mm is about the limit, your motor will be moved all the way to the bottom of the slot.
The existing slots will allow for a belt that is between 170 and 180mm, no more no less.
I still say fishing line is better than GT2s based on the design of higher end printers I've seen which use a braided line stock. I have some coming (thanks wardjr), can't wait to install it.
I'm not a big proponent of fishing line.
I had a Printrbot Simple which used fishing line for the XY transport and everyone I know of that had one, tried everything they could to minimize slippage.
Over a long print, slippage is all but inevitable with fishing line. We tried sand paper on the pulleys, we tried neoprene tubing, we tried toothed pulleys, we even tried the fishing line directly on the motor shaft, There was always some slippage. The longer the print went, the more it slipped and the print deviated, which made tall prints look like they were leaning.
Long story short, Printrbot gave up on the fishing line and redesigned the PB Simple to use GT2 belts.
Just my $0.02 on the fishing line subject.
Looks fine, but...
It's going to be too long. This is a 188mm belt.
Oh, yeah. Sorry guys. The same seller sells variety of lengths, I bought the 180 mm one as you suggested previously. That one didn't have a good picture I could use to show the supposed reinforcement, so I used the one for the 188mm and also linked to it by mistake. I'll edit the link to the one for the 180mm.
I had a Printrbot Simple which used fishing line for the XY transport and everyone I know of that had one, tried everything they could to minimize slippage.
Thanks for the info.
You also tried both nylon and aluminum head pulleys, as well as spiral pulleys intended for fish lines , right?
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