1 Topic by cordvision (edited by cordvision 2014-09-06 08:38:24)

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Topic: Ultimaker 2 and .02 layer resolution, just marketing or true?

I recently came across the Ultimaker 2 that claims to be able to print with a layer height of .02 mm. That seems almost too good to be true, especially considering that pretty much every other competitor has a max layer height of .1 mm (5 times as corse). I was wondering if anybody had some real life experience printing such fine resolution with an Ultimaker 2, especially somebody that can compare it to a Solidoodle 3. I currently own a Solidoodle 3 but wouldn't mind getting some better quality prints. The tech specs of the Ultimaker 2 sure seem tempting, but will the print quality really be that much better than a Solidoodle 3?

2 Reply by IronMan

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Re: Ultimaker 2 and .02 layer resolution, just marketing or true?

I think Sam Cervantes summed it up best of all here:

http://www.core77.com/blog/digital_fabr … _22398.asp

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3 Reply by elmoret

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Re: Ultimaker 2 and .02 layer resolution, just marketing or true?

0.02mm layers will take about 15 times longer to print. That means your 2 hour print now takes 2 days to finish. Possible? (yes, even on a Solidoodle). Practical? No.

If you want better print quality, get an SLA machine.

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4 Reply by cordvision

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Re: Ultimaker 2 and .02 layer resolution, just marketing or true?

I'm fully aware that it will take significantly longer, although it looks like it can also run at much faster speeds (300mm/s) because it has a bowden style extruder. What I'm interested is in print quality. I sometimes print "master shapes" from which I make silicone molds, so I don't care if it takes a long time to print if the quality is much better.

5 Reply by Lmay

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Re: Ultimaker 2 and .02 layer resolution, just marketing or true?

It would take a fair amount of pre-planning to manage exact or close sizes, but with a lower resolution quality in the 3D printed part you can use that as the "master" for a small vacuum forming system (dentists use these for their work) and then use that formed film to cast your silicone against.  Should eliminate the worry about the coarse levels of lines - playing with various film thicknesses will show you the right thickness to not pickup the rougher surfaces.  Would be a lot faster than investing 2 days towards printing.

Let us know how it works for you.  Thanks.

6 Reply by redbarret (edited by redbarret 2014-12-19 21:06:55)

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Re: Ultimaker 2 and .02 layer resolution, just marketing or true?

For tiny objects, like molds for homemade jewelry or miniature scultpures, 20 microns would be nice.

But having the same extrusion width (0.42 mm) for the horizontal shells even using 0.1mm for layer height is pointless, you still end up with ugly lines at the top and bottom of your objects (horizontal shells).

Unless there's a way to decrease the extrusion width on the horizontal shells, making the layer height less for aesthetic reasons is pointless for most objects, because it will still not have much effect on the top and bottom of your object, which will still be made up of noticeable 0.42mm lines.

And like IronMan said, you can do 0.02mm with Solidoodle too. The motors allow that. Though I have no idea how.

Anyone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think SLA printers are a bit faster for 20 microns as the layer is scanned faster by the laser mirrors/ dlp video projector than the stepper motors move in our fff printers.

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7 Reply by grob

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Re: Ultimaker 2 and .02 layer resolution, just marketing or true?

+1 what red says.
DLP is what you want for higher resolution; I'm not sure I could be bothered to go below about 0.2mm layers on a FFF machine, even if it technically could manage it (which many can - when well set up!).

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8 Reply by n2ri (edited by n2ri 2014-11-27 16:01:59)

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Re: Ultimaker 2 and .02 layer resolution, just marketing or true?

the width can be reduced with smaller orifice like a .25mm available for E3Dv6 hot ends which would reduce it lots and if top/bottom layers are wider than that Slic3r changes speeds/extrusion some to get closer widths already. I have seen it with my old SD2 .35mm making some lines much thinner this way. the only micro prints I see anymore that can only be tried with laser powder printers is details needing support which would ruin the finished print if even possible to support. or microns into single digits. and that is not worth the extreme high cost of such printers which also have limits of print size/time out of reason for anything to market for resale, rather only prototype printing.

Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

9 Reply by n2ri

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Re: Ultimaker 2 and .02 layer resolution, just marketing or true?

as for pros/cons over powder or liquid laser printers being better than extrusion type. the liquid laser type is a very small niche market as materials available are much fewer than even powder types plus it still requires support/suspension of item being printed making it more difficult for most micro details than powder type printers. then both are much higher cost and more messy to work with. so my feel so far for the foreseeable future of 3D printing for at least 90% of uses is the continued advancement of mods on extrusion type 3D printers.

Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

10 Reply by redbarret (edited by redbarret 2014-11-29 08:35:55)

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Re: Ultimaker 2 and .02 layer resolution, just marketing or true?

Anyone correct me if I'm wrong but I think you can extrude less diameter plastic from a wider diameter nozzle. Just set the extrusion multiplier to lower numbers and see.

EDIT: And yeah, looks like E3D has 0.25mm nozzles. http://e3d-online.com/E3D-v6/Extra-Nozzles
I wonder if those can be used with the Solidoodle hotend. Out of cash.

Solidoodle 4

11 Reply by n2ri

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Re: Ultimaker 2 and .02 layer resolution, just marketing or true?

redbarret wrote:

Anyone correct me if I'm wrong but I think you can extrude less diameter plastic from a wider diameter nozzle. Just set the extrusion multiplier to lower numbers and see.

EDIT: And yeah, looks like E3D has 0.25mm nozzles. http://e3d-online.com/E3D-v6/Extra-Nozzles
I wonder if those can be used with the Solidoodle hotend. Out of cash.


I already posted this info

Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

12 Reply by redbarret

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Re: Ultimaker 2 and .02 layer resolution, just marketing or true?

You mean a how a nozzle can extrude thinner than its diameter, or that there are 0.25mm nozzles for E3D?

Solidoodle 4

13 Reply by carl_m1968

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Re: Ultimaker 2 and .02 layer resolution, just marketing or true?

Just an FYI, i would not go below .3 on your nozzle unless you are absolutely sure of the purity of your filament. I have lost two .2 nozzles and 3 point 25 nozzles thanks to garbage in my filament that was larger than that nozzle orifice.

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14 Reply by redbarret

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Re: Ultimaker 2 and .02 layer resolution, just marketing or true?

carl_m1968 wrote:

Just an FYI, i would not go below .3 on your nozzle unless you are absolutely sure of the purity of your filament. I have lost two .2 nozzles and 3 point 25 nozzles thanks to garbage in my filament that was larger than that nozzle orifice.

Tried torching it?

Solidoodle 4