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Topic: Incorporating Natural Fibers

Hi everyone,

Firstly,  pleasure to be part of this amazing forum. I sincerely believe 3D printing is going to change the world.


I'm buying my first extruder + filawinder next week and my goal is to make a fiber-based filament spool, usable in 3D printers. Currently toying with flax fibers and I have multiple samples of different particle sizes to try. This will be setup in my basement in a well ventilated and clean area. I have a friend who owns a 3D printer and I have the privilege of testing all of the samples we will make, gratis. He will be teaching me how to use the extruder, the winder and how to tweak it for best results. Going to play with abs and pla.

I'm looking at making two different blends...one that creates a flexible plastic and another that is as strong and durable as possible. We have a patent on the blends but I am always looking at improving them.

I am pretty new to this. I have a billion questions for whomever is willing to share knowledge and I know very well that most of this information is gained via trial and error. My first few questions are specific to making the blend:


1) What are some alternatives to plastic pellets?
    a) Can I make my own flax plastic pellets?
    b) Any advice on other additives I can use to enforce the binding?
    c) Is it possible to run fiber straight through the extruder without it being in a pelletized form?

2) Where can I buy plastic pellets in Canada?

Thanks!

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Re: Incorporating Natural Fibers

1a) Typically we use virgin plastic and blend the additives.  The current additives, for the most part, have been colorant.  My guess is that you would do the same with chopped flax fibers.  I don't know how you will chop the fibers up.

1b) Make sure the flax fibers are not waxy, so the molten PLA will bind to them.  You may have to pelletize and re-extrude afterwards.

1c) No, it really needs to be in pellets.  Look up "masterbatch", then up the ratio and apply it to what you are doing.

1d) Note that if you want to make this appeal to a wide audience, you need to be able to extrude comfortably through a 0.35mm printing nozzle.  This means you need to use the 200 micron screen extruder nozzle on your filastruder and still retain your material properties.

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Re: Incorporating Natural Fibers

Thank you insta.

1a) How do you blend the additives and the virgin plastic together? The fibers have been chopped up to about 1-2mm size and I also have fibers available in a flour-like size if need be. I would buy the virgin plastic/masterbatch, ok. Just unsure how I mix the two together to make plastic pellets. I would need a plastic pellet machine then?

Thank you so much!

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Re: Incorporating Natural Fibers

You can just dust the PLA pellets with the flour or fibers then pour them in the hopper.  The first pass or two will likely have poor distribution and require pelletizing and re-extruding.

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Re: Incorporating Natural Fibers

I see I see. It sounds like I would indeed have to buy a pelletizer. I'll check with my colleague to see if I can get a cheap one locally. Too bad you can't just cut the whole spool by hand.

The goal is consistency and fibers seem to have a bad rep. for that.

Thanks!

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Re: Incorporating Natural Fibers

I have seen posts of carbon fiber being added to PLA but has anyone tried it with ABS?. What about adding fiberglass to ABS, is it even possible?

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Re: Incorporating Natural Fibers

With both PLA and ABS, the fiber lengths have to be less than the nozzle diameter to avoid clogging (results in not much strength increase) and you get no fibers across layers (weakest direction of a FDM part).

So it sounds cool, but doesn't help much in reality.

8 (edited by imbhcanada 2014-04-25 13:53:26)

Re: Incorporating Natural Fibers

I see I see. The fibers I am using have a particle size similar to flour, in the microns.


There was a fellow in California called JD Ledderman and within the past 3 years or so he 3D printed a plastic bottle made from abs and fiber plastic pellets. Nobody knows how he did this. Unfortunately he wasn't able to bring the product to market seeing it was "too biodegradable" for the food/beverage sector. Not enough shelf life. No one has heard from him in a bit. I tried to contact him but to no avail. 

There are only a couple people in the world that even make fiber plastic pellets and they don't want to sell you samples unless you buy a ton, sign and nda and basically disclose what you are doing with them. If I can't get some i'll have to make them and there will a lot of trial and error involved...but it is worth it.

Because! There is this big secrecy and almost  conspiracy about bio-polymers. In the early 30's, a man called Wallace Carothers was credited with the invention of Nylon, but not many know he was working on a bio-polymer on the side. This was validated by a man called Jack Herer. Apparently Wallace was able to make one successfully, but because DuPont owned shares in petroleum companies, they shut down his idea, which ironically could have lead to a much greener world today. He was able to make a fiber plastic without ANY petroleum based additives/plastics.

It can be done and that is my goal. The future is green. Petroleum needs to get phased out. Even if I have to start with like a 80/20 ratio (which I will have to from what people have told me) and work my way up, I will do everything I can to make this happen. Some people have even said that you need to soak your flour-sized fibers in a solution for 24-72 hours and dry it before running it through the hopper of the extruder. But maybe at the end of the day IF I succeed, perhaps it will be a product that will not be viable for 3D printing (but for injection molding instead or other plastic composite uses). It's worth a try, I think, and I have the time to experiment.


Sources to prove I am not full of **** :

Encyclopedia of Textiles, 3rd Edition by the editors of American Fabrics and Fashions Magazine, William C. Legal, Publisher Prentice-Hall, Inc., Englewood Cliffs, NJ, 1980; The Emergence of Industrial America Strategic Factors in American Economic Growth Since 1870, Peter George State University, NY; DuPont (a corporate autobiography published periodically by E.I. DuPont De Nemours and Co., Inc., Wilmington, DE.; The Blasting Handbook, E.I. DuPont De Nemours & Co., Inc., Wilmington, DE; Mechanical Engineering Magazine, Feb. 1938; Popular Mechanics, Feb 1938; Journal of Applied Polymer Science, Vol. 47, 1984; Polyamides, the Chemistry of Long Molecules (author unknown); U.S. Patent #2,071,250 (Feb. 16, 1937), W.H. Carothers; DuPont Dynasties, Jerry Colby; The American Peoples Encyclopedia, the Sponsor Press, Chicago, 1953.

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Re: Incorporating Natural Fibers

I am located in Canada and looking for someone that can make pellets or sheets with between 20-30% flax.  Do you know of anyone in this group that can provide this?