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Topic: filawinder losing auto settings

After successfully demonstrating my filawinder and filastruder at my makerspace, I packed them up and brought them home. The next day the filawinder would not function. I removed the nano from the filawinder board and found that it would not even accept and run the standard blink sketch. I suspected damage from a static discharge so put aside the original nano and bought a replacement.

I uploaded the v9a firmware to the new nano and everything seemed great so I began to extrude and wind. The filawinder quit auto winding after a few minutes. This happened a few times before I gave up.

Further testing in troubleshooting mode shows what seem to be reasonable values for everything and auto mode begins and seems normal with lowering filament speeding up the motor, etc. However, if the filament is moved up and down by hand fairly rapidly, it is possible to cause the yellow pin 13 LED on the arduino to flash, the filament guide arm jerks a bit, the serial port readout shows one or two gibberish characters and the automatic winding stops. This happens more easily with the troubleshooting jumper on. I am not sure, but it may happen more often when the magnet is near the hall sensor.

Most times it is possible to just set the switch to manual mode, push the middle button, and wave filament to set the sensors and it will be back in auto mode. Once in awhile when the auto mode quits, the arduino seems to be locked up and nothing short of a complete reboot or a reset will allow any function.

Has anyone seen any similar malfunctions?

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Re: filawinder losing auto settings

When in troubleshooting mode, the serial output slows everything down enough that you can jerk the away fast enough for it to disappear between reads.  The flash and the gibberish indicates that the Nano rebooted.  I don't know why that would cause a crash, maybe there is something going on in the PID library.  As a bandaid, I can see if I can get the sensor calibration to save into EEPROM so it doesn't get erased in a reboot, and can continue operating.

In the meantime, take care that the sensor is positioned so that the filament hangs freely between the guides as much as possible.  Sometimes rubbing too hard against the guides can cause the filament to stick, and then jerk down rather than dropping smoothly.

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Re: filawinder losing auto settings

Thanks for your speedy response, Ian.

IanJohnson wrote:

When in troubleshooting mode, the serial output slows everything down enough that you can jerk the away fast enough for it to disappear between reads.

So if the filament disappears between reads that would cause a reboot?

I can tell that everything happens much slower in troubleshooting mode but it happens in normal mode, too, just not as often. I have been testing with a piece of filament held by a "third hand" so I can control the movement. Usually it will run a long time if the filament is steady but if I move it up and down by hand I can always cause a problem.

Jerry

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Re: filawinder losing auto settings

The filament disappearing doesn't normally cause a reboot.  I also can't usually jerk it away fast enough to make it lose track when not in troubleshooting mode.  Where did you get the new Nano, and what does the silkscreen say above the reset button?

Sometimes winding can build up a lot of static, so that is certainly something to be aware of.

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Re: filawinder losing auto settings

The new Nano is this one from Amazon:

HOSSEN® Mini Nano V3.0 ATmega328 board for Arduino IDE (Arduino-compatible) + Free USB Cable

but the silkscreen seems to be exactly like the one that came with the Filawinder kit, "ARDUINO NANO V3.0 GRAVITECH.US" and with the large G logo.

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Re: filawinder losing auto settings

Give this firmware a try-

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vcz8i8zcxfbrg … r_v10a.zip

The sensor calibration is saved to EEPROM so if the Arduino resets and the filament manages to stay in front of the sensor while it reboots (about 2-3 seconds) Auto mode can continue without recalibration.

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Re: filawinder losing auto settings

Thanks, Ian.

I will try that firmware tomorrow and let you know my results.

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Re: filawinder losing auto settings

Ian,

With v10a the values shown after QTR calibration are the same as the QTR Min and Max. That is Min 511,512,552 and 469 and Max 65535, 65535, 65535, 65535.

In troubleshooting mode: speed, switch, knob and wiper values seem normal but loop position is 1500 or very close and never changes when filament is waved inside the sensor. Manual mode works but the motor never moves in auto mode.

After 12 to 14 tries to set the sensor, the error "Exceeded max number of writes" for each of the max and min sensor values. Max writes can be reset by removing the power and serial monitor (USB) cords from the nano.

I can't tell if the original problem persists because I never got it working in auto mode.

Jerry

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Re: filawinder losing auto settings

I ran into that bug working with arduinos that didn't already have values in the EEPROM.  I'll get it reposted later today, but in the meantime, make this addition to the set_sensor() function-

void set_sensor()                                    //Calibrate the reflectance sensors  Add LED indication that calibration is happening
{
  qtra.resetCalibration( );

I found that when calibrating, if the max value it detects is less than the previous max value, it will go with the previous one and not update.  Since it started out with a value 65535 before making any readings, it was never going to update it with a real reading.  This change resets the values before calibrating so it will always go with the current values from the sensors.

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Re: filawinder losing auto settings

hi ian
does the FilaWinder_v10a.zip  is for 1.75mm or 3mm filament,please?

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Re: filawinder losing auto settings

After adding the
     qtra.resetCalibration( );
line to the v10a firmware and reflashing, the FilaWinder is working well with 1.75mm filament. The arduino seems to reset once in awhile, but it continues to wind without issues.

I am using the more powerful beta Filastruder motor.

With 3mm filament, there is so much twisting during extrusion and the filament is so much less flexible that it is hard to keep the FilaWinder from affecting the extrusion process. With 3mm the extruded filament seems to be semi-molten for an inch or so beyond the nozzle so it is much easier for twisting or jerking to affect diameter and straightness of filament.

I need to try a longer loop, I think. How long a loop works best with 3mm?

I know vertical placement is best for the Filastruder but I am using it horizontal to keep the filament size in the usable range. It has been around 2.4-2.6mm with standard bore melt filter nozzle at 180C with OSPrinting pellets. I plan to eventually rebore the nozzle and use a 45 degree or vertical mount.

Has anyone tried to minimize corkscrewing by making something like is used in a laminar flow water jet? I think Tim said that commercial extruders use something like that.

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Re: filawinder losing auto settings

jfahner wrote:

I know vertical placement is best for the Filastruder but I am using it horizontal to keep the filament size in the usable range. It has been around 2.4-2.6mm with standard bore melt filter nozzle at 180C with OSPrinting pellets. I plan to eventually rebore the nozzle and use a 45 degree or vertical mount.

Has anyone tried to minimize corkscrewing by making something like is used in a laminar flow water jet? I think Tim said that commercial extruders use something like that.

That's surprising about the diameter - that'd be negative die swell. I wonder if the thermocouple is reading improperly or something, as the 3m mnozzles are drilled to 2.78mm by default. You could move up to a 1/8" bit, that's 3.175mm

Commercial extruders use a breaker plate. Their dies are also longer, and they're direct pulling it - not letting it free flow. They can get away with this because they do closed loop control with laser mics.

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Re: filawinder losing auto settings

"That's surprising about the diameter - that'd be negative die swell. I wonder if the thermocouple is reading improperly or something, as the 3m mnozzles are drilled to 2.78mm by default. You could move up to a 1/8" bit, that's 3.175mm"

I am extruding with the nozzle 62" from the floor, Filastruder horizontal, standard bore melt filter (a 7/64 drill bit just fits), beta test motor, 180C, and MG94 ABS with no colorant. I ran a test by letting the temp get up to 180C, waiting 15 minutes more and then extruding until the filament touched the floor. At that point I stopped and measured what had been produced. About an inch from the beginning it is smooth and measures 3.03mm so yes, there is die swell. In the middle it is 2.50 and the area that was touching the copper filastruder guide when the machine was stopped measures 1.70. Isn't it the pull from the mass of the filament hanging off the machine that causes the decrease in diameter?

I know from experience that if the machine is left running the diameter will stabilize eventually. For me it stabilizes at about 2.4 to 2.6mm with the above conditions. Wouldn't going vertical decrease the diameter because there would be no drag from the guide?

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Re: filawinder losing auto settings

It's really hard to use the Filawinder horizontally because of the twist, and the need for the filament to bend twice- sideways to down, then down to up.   When I've tried having the extruder and winder horizontal with 1.75, the filament ended up making a kind of s curve between them.

I think you can do vertical without reducing diameter too much.  The key is to fan cool as close to the nozzle as possible so the length that is melted enough to stretch is as short as possible.  I have my fan on a separate switch now I can can leave it off while setting up the winder, then turn it on once everything is stable.  A longer melt zone is bad for diameter, but makes it much easier to avoid kinks while handling the filament.

With 1.75 I  keep the extruder and winder a minimum of 20" apart with a 10" drop to the sensor so the loop makes a half circle.  With 3mm you might try pushing that minimum out to 30" with a 15" drop.  The weight of the filament counteracts twisting, so the wider spread you use, the more stable it will be.  At 30" apart, there is less filament hanging than your 62" to the floor, so that should create less stretching as well.