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Topic: Fixing initial mis-alignment

First, I want to confirm I am a paying filastruder customer.  My serial number is 732, and it was shipped to zipcode 02135.

I think I need to rebuild the barrel of my filastruder.  After initial assembly it worked fine for a few hours, but then the motor twisted the wooden block it was attached to off of the board it was mounted on, resulting in the motor becoming misaligned to the barrel.

The extruder was mounted beside me (vertically), and I don't think I noted that the top block was twisting soon enough -- I think it may have been like that for a minute or two before I noticed and shut the whole thing down.

I removed the old (now bent screws), and then re-inforced the motor mount, by mounting an extra-thick (1.5") piece of wood behind the old block, drilling holes in it, and then replacing the bolts that hold the motor to the block with much longer ones that go all the way through the really thick  block of wood. With the new mount the motor isn't going anywhere... In fact I was sufficiently confident of this that I ordered the new motor with a lot more torque you offered a few days ago, for when I fix my other problem: I can't get the barrel realigned properly. 

After re-mounting the motor I already unscrewed and moved the other piece of wood so that it would be in (what seemed to be) proper alignment, and then re-secured it to the base.  I made sure everything was reassembled, heated the extruder, waited 15 minutes to make sure everything got heated properly and turned on the motor.  The motor stayed firmly mounted, and I saw the auger turning (the dowel hadn't slipped), but nothing was coming out.  I waited a bit -- same thing.  I'd just-refilled the hopper and (1) saw the auger through the hole in the barrel when I added the pellets and (2) the pellets moved very slightly as the motor turned (as before, indicating that the auger was rotating around them), so the problem wasn't that the barrel was turned so the pellets weren't getting fed into the barrel.

After a minute or so of the motor turning I noticed something disturbing -- metal flakes, that looked like pieces of the auger came out the back of the barrel. Not good.  It looks like despite appearances the barrel isn't aligned to the motor and somehow the auger is grinding against it.  Yes, when I first assembled the kit I did grind the ends of the barrel smooth, so that's not the problem. I think it's some sort of internal misalignment, and I can't figure out how to fix it. 

In particular because there is plastic throughout the barrel I have no idea how to disassemble this part of the filastruder to correct the problem.  I have the strong suspicion that the best answer is: I don't, it would be easier to just buy a new barrel/auger which I notice is for sale in the filastruder store.  I would just do that... BUT... in order to totally replace that part I will need another flange as well, which the barrel is screwed into very, very tightly.  I don't think those two pieces are coming apart without the help of someone a lot stronger than I am.

So, could elmoret or someone else weigh in on whether I can buy another flange along with the auger/barrel pair, and/or whether there is something else I can do to try and correct the problem I'm having?  I would really appreciate any help anyone can offer.  Thanks!

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Re: Fixing initial mis-alignment

Metal flakes aren't a problem in the first few hours, and are in fact expected. Just keep purging.

If it turns out something is actually bent, happy to work out replacement parts via email.

3 (edited by ericpaulbishop 2014-01-24 16:44:54)

Re: Fixing initial mis-alignment

(1) These are LARGE metal flakes up to 1/2 centimeter in length coming out the BACK of the barrel. 

(2) Over the course of 5 minutes maybe 1-2 cm of filament came out the front of the barrel. Nothing is getting purged because nothing is coming out.

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Re: Fixing initial mis-alignment

Actually, just measured instead of estimating.  The metal flakes are clearly part of the auger and are over 1cm in length.  You can see the curvature where they were attached to the auger.

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Re: Fixing initial mis-alignment

hmm, looking closer, the flakes aren't part of the auger, but rather a washer that was attached to the auger. I'm going to have to take apart the central block to see exactly what got destroyed and how.

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Re: Fixing initial mis-alignment

A small butane torch is a good tool to have on hand.  If you ever need to take the hot end apart, including the coupler, you will need a source of heat other than the band.  I usually use the heater band to heat it up enough to at least take off the nozzle.  If the wires are long enough, you can take the barrel/flange/auger off while the heater band is attached and powered up, then twist the auger out by hand.  Then turn it off, pull off the heater band and try to get the coupler unscrewed before the plastic goes solid again.  Or once the nozzle is off you can remove the band, take off the barrel/flange/coupler and use a torch to melt the plastic inside until you can twist the auger out.

Once you have the barrel clear, roll it on the edge of a table to see if it got twisted.

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Re: Fixing initial mis-alignment

Sounds like the thrust bearing was destroyed. Can you upload some pictures of what you've got so far? Again - we'll work out replacement parts - just want to figure out what's happened and the extent of the damage.

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Re: Fixing initial mis-alignment

I took off the bolts that hold the central column assembly to get a better look at what got destroyed, and you're right it looks like the thrust bearing got destroyed.  One washer is completely gone and it looks like the back part of the shaft collar (I think that's the right name for it) got chewed up.

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Re: Fixing initial mis-alignment

Here is a picture.

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broken-filastruder.jpg
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Re: Fixing initial mis-alignment

Since the first picture is a bit fuzzy, here are a few more pictures.  Again, this is after i took the bolts off to get a better look, it's not as if I ran the filastruder disassembled like this. I also initially forgot in my last post that the thrust bearing wasn't just one washer shaped piece, but several -- it looks like they are all destroyed. All that was left is a thin circular piece shown in the picture below.  The wooden plate (I think it's called the thrust plate in the instructions), looks chewed up around the edges of the large central hole.  A piece of the thrust bearing is lodged in one corner of it as shown in the picture.  I notice that now the hole in the center of the thrust plate is large enough for the auger (with the shaft collar on) to slide easily through it -- I can't remember if this was initially the case.

I'm guessing I need a new thrust bearing (all 3 parts), and likely a new thrust plate and/or shaft collar. 

Also, can you comment/confirm on whether the initial misalignment could have caused this?  I'd like to make sure that when I fix this there isn't a dumb mistake I've made that will cause this problem all over again.

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filastruder_remains_of_thrust_bearing.jpg
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Re: Fixing initial mis-alignment

Whew! That thing ran for a LONG time in bad shape. Here's what I think happened:

  • The motor support/upright came off the base, resulting in a bad misalignment, one the thrust plate couldn't cope with. (I use the HDF composite since it has a little give to it, meaning that things don't have to be perfectly aligned for the bearing to be relatively evenly loaded)

  • The misalignment was so bad that it started to wear the HDF thrust plate, enlarging the hole significantly to the point the auger/collar/bearing assembly slid backwards

  • At this point the steel bearing came to rest on the flange. The auger has slid 0.25" backwards, further worsening misalignment due to axial translation. The steel bearing is now not supported evenly across its face, and it is destroyed quickly, dropping out of the assembly. This results in another 0.25" of backwards translation.

  • The shaft collar now rests against the flange, wearing the profile you see on the collar into it. By now the auger is far enough out of the melt zone that you're not getting very much extrusion.

New parts needed:

Minimum:
Thrust bearing
Shaft collar
HDF thrust plate
Flange

Other possible parts to check:
Auger
Barrel
(inspect both for being bent. you will need to clean the plastic out and ensure the auger can still rotate freely. Pull the nozzle off at temperature and soak the whole thing in acetone for a day or two)

Steps to prevent this happening in the future:

  • Ensure uprights are fastened to the base securely

  • Post a picture of the final assembly before running it in case there's anything that was missed during assembly that I can't figure out from the above pictures

  • Check on it at LEAST hourly during initial startup

I do have to say - I've never seen anything like this before. It's very interesting. How did the support come loose from the base? Did you pre drill? Did you observe the wood splitting?

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Re: Fixing initial mis-alignment

I think you are right that the steel bearing hit the flange -- I can see that the threading on the back flange is partly stripped now that I look at it.

Worth noting: this thing did not run for hours unattended -- it happened in at most 30 minutes of run time.  I was checking at least once every 15 minutes when I noted the initial misalignment, and I ran it for at most 15 minutes after I got everything re-mounted. I'm not sure how it managed to happen so fast, but it did.

I did pre-drill, and the wood didn't crack in front of/behind/beside the screws. The wood was pulled partway *UP* off of the screws, and then the screws were bent at a weird angle as the motor was trying to turn. Sorry, but I didn't think to take a picture when I initially saw what had happened.

I'd like to order all the parts you mention including another auger and barrel -- it's going to be much easier for me to just spend $40 on a new auger/barrel then to soak it in acetone for 2 days, and maybe then discover it's bent. Yes, I know I'll have to regrind the barrel but that's going to be easier than procuring a lot of acetone and soaking for 2 days.  I don't at all mind spending a (reasonable) amount of money just to re-order the broken parts and avoid hassle.   Can you sell me another flange (so 2 flanges) too?  That way I don't have to unscrew the barrel from the flange it's currently attached to -- it is in there really, really tightly.   

Not sure how you want me to handle the bill, but I'm happy to pay for the replacement parts.  Just send a paypal (or any other payment service) invoice to my email (which you should have on file -- pm me if you need me to update you) and I'll pay it right away. I'd like to get the replacement parts as soon as possible.

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Re: Fixing initial mis-alignment

I wonder if somehow it was grinding against the support due to an initial misalignment long before the motor mount got pulled out from the base.  I was checking on it (and not noticing any obvious problems) during the initial couple hours of runtime, but it may be that the problem was there even though the block hadn't yet been pulled away from the base.

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Re: Fixing initial mis-alignment

ericpaulbishop wrote:

I did pre-drill, and the wood didn't crack in front of/behind/beside the screws. The wood was pulled partway *UP* off of the screws, and then the screws were bent at a weird angle as the motor was trying to turn. Sorry, but I didn't think to take a picture when I initially saw what had happened.

So the screws pulled out? What size did you pre drill? How far apart were they?

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Re: Fixing initial mis-alignment

Pre-drilled with 1/16th bit.  Each screw was 1" from the side of the mount board, so there was 1.5" in between them.  The holes were drilled in the center of the width of the board -- I measured the board width at 3/4" so that would be 3/8" from the edge.

One slight quirk, but shouldn't make a difference: The base board I used is thicker than what was called for, 1.5" vs 1" BUT I took a large bit (can't recall the exact size, but it was bigger than the head of the screws I was putting in, I can measure if you want), and drilled 1/2" deep holes centered on the holes drilled with the 1/16 bit in the relevant spots under the base, where the motor mount screws went in. I've double checked and these holes are at least 1/2" deep. The screws went in so that the heads of the screws were 1/2" up into the 1.5" board, so the screws went up at least as far into the motor mount as they should go.  The screws did NOT pull out of the base board, the motor mount board pulled up off of the screws that were in the base board.

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Re: Fixing initial mis-alignment

Ah - that makes sense. Two problems afoot:

1.) not spaced far enough apart. Torque = r x F. The closer the screws are, the more force is on them. I usually space them 2.5" apart.
2.) 1" lumber is actually 0.75" thick. You lost 1/4" of engagement.

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Re: Fixing initial mis-alignment

I probably should have known better, especially about the hole spacing, but those are both things that should probably go in the instructions.  It doesn't say anywhere in there how far apart to space the holes, and given that you specify the dimensions of the board as 1"x6"x21" it isn't at all obvious that you mean standard 1" lumber which is 3/4" thick, rather than a board that is actually 1" thick.

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Re: Fixing initial mis-alignment

Fair enough. I meant a standard 1x6, 21 inches long. I didn't anticipate people using other lumber. Good point about the spacing, I'll add it to the next revision.