1 Topic by goofygrin (edited by goofygrin 2012-10-11 16:25:45)

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Topic: Reducing slag

Not sure if this is something that can be reduced or not, but I'd like to reduce the "slag" that I get on my prints as much as possible.

Here's a print I made last night: http://i.imgur.com/wXF3W.jpg

200*, 95* bed, .3mm layer, 10% infill.  This is with a fan around the extruder (Lawsy/Ian design).

The little "warts" are something I'd like to remove if possible.  The inside had a lot more, and they tend to pop off easily with a fingernail or pocket knife, but less post processing would be better big_smile  I'm guessing those are from the head moving from one side of the print to the other.

Thanks!

2 Reply by IanJohnson

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Re: Reducing slag

Did you use Slic3r for this?  Try it with Skeinforge, or Slic3r 0.7.2b.   I've found that the newer versions seem to produce some stuttering going around circles, while Skeinforge is much smoother.  Slic3r had a rewrite around 0.8, and many people feel that .7.2b still makes the best quality gcode.  I know that back then I preferred slicer because it produced cylinders without seams, but that is no longer the case.

The drawback to .7.2b is that there seems to be a limit to the size of gcode file it can handle.  If you try to slice something at .1mm layers, it is likely to stall if the object isn't fairly small.

3 Reply by goofygrin

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Re: Reducing slag

It's slic3r 0.9.3 Mac.

I don't even have Skeinforge installed honestly.

I'll try 0.7.2b to see if it makes a difference.

4 Reply by solijohn

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Re: Reducing slag

IanJohnson wrote:

Did you use Slic3r for this?  Try it with Skeinforge, or Slic3r 0.7.2b.   I've found that the newer versions seem to produce some stuttering going around circles, while Skeinforge is much smoother.  Slic3r had a rewrite around 0.8, and many people feel that .7.2b still makes the best quality gcode.  I know that back then I preferred slicer because it produced cylinders without seams, but that is no longer the case.

The drawback to .7.2b is that there seems to be a limit to the size of gcode file it can handle.  If you try to slice something at .1mm layers, it is likely to stall if the object isn't fairly small.

This still a problem as of today? I'm a little surprised to hear about this from Slic3r.

Former Solidoodle employee, no longer associated with the company.

5 Reply by IanJohnson

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Re: Reducing slag

Some people in RepRap don't use any version of Slic3r after 072b.  Skeinforge can make a smoother surface, but often wants to make a lot of unnecessary solid layers.  Some of Slic3r's paths aren't as good, but it is more configurable.  There are a lot of options for thread width and speeds that let you balance print time vs quality.  It can create gcode for .1mm prints that tends to crash 072b and Skeinforge.   Skeinforge has better support generation, but is so much slower.

All of the slicers have strengths and weaknesses between them.  Kisslicer is actually very strong.  It has quality support generation, volumetric extrusion, gcode visualization, and is even faster than slic3r.  It doesn't have all the speed options of slic3r, and no Z lift during retraction, but otherwise it is a good alternative.

6 Reply by HelmutK

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Re: Reducing slag

I see these "warts" happening at the end of a perimeter line print and the head moves in to start another line on the same level. Seems to be an issue of the extrusion not stopping right away after a line has been printed. Does retraction come into affect then? Maybe play around with the retraction settings to see if it helps reduce these warts.

7 Reply by solijohn

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Re: Reducing slag

IanJohnson wrote:

Some people in RepRap don't use any version of Slic3r after 072b.  Skeinforge can make a smoother surface, but often wants to make a lot of unnecessary solid layers.  Some of Slic3r's paths aren't as good, but it is more configurable.  There are a lot of options for thread width and speeds that let you balance print time vs quality.  It can create gcode for .1mm prints that tends to crash 072b and Skeinforge.   Skeinforge has better support generation, but is so much slower.

All of the slicers have strengths and weaknesses between them.  Kisslicer is actually very strong.  It has quality support generation, volumetric extrusion, gcode visualization, and is even faster than slic3r.  It doesn't have all the speed options of slic3r, and no Z lift during retraction, but otherwise it is a good alternative.

Perhaps we should do a slicer comparison chart on the Wiki. I personally prefer the prints that come from Skeinforge, but it seems development of it has ceased, and the GUI is horrid. I don't think it would take much development to fix the GUI issues, and make it a much more professional program.

We spoke to the Slic3r developer a few times about making a standard release of Slic3r with Solidoodle presets included. He wasn't very pleased with the idea, and said something to the effect of "I can come to New York and charge you consulting fees if you like."

Setting up Slic3r is easy enough, but one of our requirements is that the Slicing software just start out of the box with a proper profile loaded - no wizards. At one point or another I mucked about in the Slic3r source code for where the defaults are stored, but I haven't had the time to decipher the perl source code on Github. Perl is about my weakest language, and of course the developer was very little help finding where the defaults are set.

Former Solidoodle employee, no longer associated with the company.

8 Reply by IanJohnson

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Re: Reducing slag

With Slic3r, you can just include the .ini  The user might have to select the Solidoodle profile from the pulldowns the first time, but that should be all.

I haven't played too much with it, but Cura provides a front end to Skeinforge 50 with a couple of improvements, such as "Joris".  With Joris, if you want to print something hollow with a single perimeter wall, it can draw it as a single, spiraling line with do discrete layer changes.

9 Reply by solijohn

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Re: Reducing slag

IanJohnson wrote:

With Slic3r, you can just include the .ini  The user might have to select the Solidoodle profile from the pulldowns the first time, but that should be all.

I haven't played too much with it, but Cura provides a front end to Skeinforge 50 with a couple of improvements, such as "Joris".  With Joris, if you want to print something hollow with a single perimeter wall, it can draw it as a single, spiraling line with do discrete layer changes.

This is something we are stubborn about. For an open source program, we think it's a little crazy that we can't get the settings to default to our printer's needs. Many of our users are desperate for a "turn key" solution, and don't want to even think about loading settings.

Former Solidoodle employee, no longer associated with the company.

10 Reply by lawsy

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Re: Reducing slag

Considering how ugly and limited Pronterface/Skeinforge is, loading one ini file seems like a very small deal.

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11 Reply by solijohn

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Re: Reducing slag

lawsy wrote:

Considering how ugly and limited Pronterface/Skeinforge is, loading one ini file seems like a very small deal.

You're right. After dealing with Skeinforge, I would like to have the next software set up be perfect.

Former Solidoodle employee, no longer associated with the company.

12 Reply by tek

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Re: Reducing slag

slic3r 0.9.3 has serious problems slicing the circles. Here is what happend to me today while I was trying to print a shaft. Two prints on left are aborted that I did with slic3r 0.9.3, the right print is excellent output from skeinforge:

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13 Reply by solijohn

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Re: Reducing slag

tek wrote:

slic3r 0.9.3 has serious problems slicing the circles. Here is what happend to me today while I was trying to print a shaft. Two prints on left are aborted that I did with slic3r 0.9.3, the right print is excellent output from skeinforge:

Developers: Any idea why? I would investigate this, but I don't understand perl, and the developer is slightly aggressive.

Former Solidoodle employee, no longer associated with the company.

14 Reply by lawsy

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Re: Reducing slag

Tek, perhaps you can post the STL so we can see if the problem is replicating on another setup?

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