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SoliForum - 3D Printing Community → Hacks & Mods → The first mod?
FWIW,I found a source for clear ceramic online and ordered some up for my SD2 at 6x6.
http://www.onedayglass.com/pyroceram.php
Free online quotes.
Available in 1/8 and 3/16.
1 sheet $19,2 or more sheets $17.
FedEx ground $18.
Don't know if they ship offshore though.
All my glass eventually broke so I went to Lowes and bought 4 pieces of glass and 2 plain white glazed ceramic tiles just to try, to see if it really worked. Well, I don't know what I'm going to do with the glass. I was apprehensive about the tile because I just have the old resistor bed heater and didn't know if it would be enough. It is, even with the grooves on the bottom. I was wondering if I should put something between the bed (still with Kapton) and the tile but no one ever said anything about it. It works great and at $.48 per tile, this is certainly one of the best / cheapest upgrades. I haven't taken any measurements with the IR thermometer so I don't know how even the heat is distributed but I don't really care, it just works and I'm happy.
Thank you, adrian! I never would have thought to try this.
Quick question for the new ceramic converts: do you need to use hairspray or anything like that with the ceramic, or does it just work as is?
Quick question for the new ceramic converts: do you need to use hairspray or anything like that with the ceramic, or does it just work as is?
it 'works' without it, and you can always revert to a layer of kapton with acetone wipe ontop of it.. but yes, I found a dusting of hairspray helps due to its increased points-of-contact over straght glaze.
PLA works just fine with blue painters tape and no other mods...
I use mirror and hairspray. I don't know about all of it's fancy properties but it seems to work pretty good and after 10 or so uses hasn't shown any signs of breakage. I pull it out and set it on a towel to cool while I place another on to use. I also did the Lawsy carriage replacements, the 2n2r5 slop nut mod ( Custom installed for use as a backlash mod ), the fan mod, and replaced all of my rods with 400mm ground and hardened rods. With all these little tweaks I can pretty much print 3X faster than stock and keep the banding out of it. I've done a few other things here and there but those are the majors.
You will need a fix for ABS not sticking.
We have had our SD3 for a few months. Strictly ABS. I have had many issues with parts not sticking. Lots of messing around with speeds and feeds and brims and such.
I believe have found a bulletproof solution:
1. Glass bed (more for durability since you want your parts to stick and eventually the Kapton will wear out if everything sticks well).
2. Hairspray containing PVM/MA. They probably all do. Every cheap one of the shelf did. The finger pump kind gives less over spray and there are no propellants that could get in the way.
3. A secret sauce of ABS pipe cement cleaner stuff from the hardware store(Oatey #30795, MEK and acetone), with some ABS dissolved in it. Not too much ABS, maybe skim milk consistency, maybe less. Less is more here.
4. A pump of hairspray on the hot glass. Wait 10 seconds. Paint a single coat of the secret sauce onto the build area. Done.
Rationale:
1. PVM/MA sticks to the glass really well. Solvent dissolved ABS not so much.
2. MEK in the pipe cement cleaner completely dissolves the ABS, acetone alone does not.
3. MEK is a solvent for the PVM/MA, acetone is not.
Big prints small prints, fat prints, skinny prints. Fast low res or slow high res. They all stick. I don't use brims on prints that are short anymore. Only tall thin ones.
Good Luck and pass it on if it works for you.
......... Or just a ceramic tile as the rest of this thread has dealt with. 
Nope. I found my keys mate.
Ceramic kitchen tiles are not precision enough for the parts I print. I would have to build fixturing for them - or grind the bottom parallel to the top within a thou or so. My pyrex glass is flat. Everywhere I put it on a level bed, it is level.
Ok. You have more backlash in your belts than you'll ever have issue with bottom flatness so not sure where the loss in fidelity will occur as a result of the base.. and your y-axis link rod... but if you've found a method that works for you thats great .. But as per the image already provided, you can do loops at <1mm separations.. so I'm not sure where the perceived issues with flatness occur
Dude, you have the most boring spirograph.
So from what I have gathered with this thread...
I simply go to home depot, grab a nice flat tile, slap it onto the bed, realign it so it works, and done? No kapton, no hairspray, no anything? It should print and stick just fine? I haven't really found a thread anywhere on the internet that is a tutorial for ceramic beds. A lot of glass ones, but not ceramic.
light dusting of hairspray still required, but other than that - yup.
kapton is an option if you want glass-like bottoms..
Okay, because tomorrow I plan on doing it, just trying to figure out what I need. I have a roll of kapton anyway, so it wouldn't make it worse to put it on?
In that list is a tile or a couple of tiles, hairspray and.. thats it?
Do you just clip it onto the existing bed with some of those black clips? Nothing between?
Sorry for all the questions, new to the Solidoodle and all.
Yeah, just some bulldog/foldback clips to hold it on and thats it.
You *might* need a longer Z-Axis Limit Screw - an M3, or a Motherboard "Standoff" to extend the existing one - But I do not need that with the standard hotend or a j-head - only with the E3D Hotend.
Or that printable Z-limit screw offset thing?
Nope. I found my keys mate.
Ceramic kitchen tiles are not precision enough for the parts I print. I would have to build fixturing for them - or grind the bottom parallel to the top within a thou or so. My pyrex glass is flat. Everywhere I put it on a level bed, it is level.
Have you found your marbles?
My tiles are pretty smooth. If a standard tile isn't "precise" enough, I doubt the rest of the Solidoodle is either.
What is a good sized tile for a S2?
What is a good sized tile for a S2?
Hair spray, big binder clips and this here:
http://www.lowes.com/pd_1249-74035-SL10 … ct_price|0
That's pretty much it. Don't forget to lower your bed and relevel.
Also, on an unrelated note, I find Sally Beauty Supply and Lowes / Home Depot to be much more useful to me than Radio Shack. Hairspray, files, nail polish remover (acetone), and tweezers all from Sally. Radio Shack has nothing useful.
Lowes/Homedepot sells acetone by the quart. Cheaper than nailpolish.
My tiles are pretty smooth. If a standard tile isn't "precise" enough, I doubt the rest of the Solidoodle is either.
It wasn't when I got it. But it is getting there.
Smooth is not as much as an issue as plane parallel (removal and replacement without messing with alignment and consistency between tiles).
Regardless, the additional adhesion helps with parts that are likely to warp. I am now using fewer warp mitigation features in my models.
The tiles still require hairspray, right? So I use a more precision and repeatable surface and better chemistry and it cost me a penny and 10 extra seconds in a 4 hr print to do the extra step, which is not really 10 seconds since the bed is still heating.
I did not intend to cause such a ruckus. You guys act like I kicked your puppy. These forums are about solutions. This is a solution. This thread titled 1st mods. This would be mine. I will shut up now and get back to my marbles.
IMO, all of these suggestions are good and appreciated. It is also important that everyone realize (including the people making the suggestions) that there is no 'Best suggestion'. Reason being is (for instance) what each person wants will change what they need. In the case of the bed, two of the greatest suggestion are glass or tile. In each case, there are pros and cons.
Glass: Can be easily bought at any store carrying mirror or glass frames for dirt cheap, dont even have to use a hardware store. You can get multiple pieces and swap them out without having to re-level the bed. Take less time to reheat (especially when swapping). Better than kapton for sticking, but not as good as ceramic.
Tile: 6"x 6" piece can be found at hardware store for dirt cheap. 8" piece not as common. Takes longer to heat up depends on heater), may require leveling. Best for sticking and also best for avoiding lifting on certain prints.
Depending on what the owner wants the printer for will decide the best option. In my case, I dont expect to print a dozen parts back to back. I am more concerned about dialing in the precision. I dont have a need for swapping and I will want the bed to be leveled (and not often). That gives me both options. I have a SD3 on order, and plan to use both glass and tile until I find which one meets my needs. Right now, I already picked up a 8" mirror for $4 from Wally world. I am not having as much luck finding a stock 8" glazed tile. Looks like I will have to have a 12" one cut for me. I dont know what I will be printing yet, but until I decide to print something big, the tile is not needed as much (lifting).
I can also see how some other people may want quick change-out and dont care about the precision of how level the bed is. Tile would be the hands-down winner there. Others may want a simple solution and not have to play around so much just to get thier first decent prints. An easy to find piece of glass and hairspray sounds like a decent start for those who dont look forward to a weekly trip to the hardware store.
Point being, there is no 'winning' suggestion. The win comes from having multiple, well explained suggestions so people can find thier own unique solution.
Do you recommend that I take the kapton tape off of the original bed before placing the tile on? It doesn't seem to be conducting the heat very well to the tile. (bed says its at 77c, tile is not very warm)
rickq - I apologize. Your right. Sorry you had to experience my sarcastic smart-ass side. Don't let that discourage you from participating in what may be the best 3D printing community on the internets. At least I'm not a Jeffrey. ; )
I do notice slight variations in evenness but not much. I keep an eye on the first layer and make changes on the fly if necessary.
And since we are on the topic of first mods, (we still are, right?) thumb screws for bed leveling was my first followed closely but a grommet for the filament hole on the S2. I didn't like the idea of plastic scraping against a sharp metal hole before going into the extruder.
ITman496 - I still have my Kapton and don't think it makes a difference. What are you setting your temp at?
I actually got it. It's just sorta delayed.
My next problem is the fact that even with my nice shiny new ceramic tile bed, stuff still doesn't like to stick. It sticks sometimes but occasionally will lift in the corners..
I've done hairspray and that /sort/ of works but still lifts at points.
I tried sanding the heck out of the tile and hairspray, that also sorta worked but once again it was intermittent. I'm not sure what to do.
I rose the bed temp to 105c to try and fix it and no difference.
What do you put on your tile to make things stick to it? I plan on making some pretty large/complex parts on this machine and I'd hate for them to not work / be bent.
Also, nobody has as far as I know ever said what to do to maintain the tile. Do you scrub it off after each print? Do you spray it with hair spray every time? I've noticed that the hairspray seems to form a film on the surface that actually effects how level it is.
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