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Topic: 3d Printing for low production run?

I was wondering if anybody has experience in using 3d printing for low production runs?
I have a complicated part that can't be easily injection molded (mold costs would be very high) and I only need to make about 100-200 units or so. Furthermore, I like the idea of making adjust to the part as I go along.

I was wondering if there are high end printers (not the solidoodle) that might fit my needs? I know they cost easily 10 thousands of dollars but I don't want to buy one anyways (rent time on it or lease one for awhile). Does anybody know of any printers that can deliver material strength that is close to injection molded parts? Any input would be appreciated.

(I know that printing parts is slow and the plastic much more expensive compared to injection molding. This isn't an issue for me because the item I'm going to produce will have very high margins.)

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Re: 3d Printing for low production run?

Can it be cast?  If it can be cast, get it done in lost wax.

I am an open book, write on my pages that I may learn the wisdom that you posses.

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Re: 3d Printing for low production run?

I've printed over 100 hoppers for the Filastruder so far on 3 Solidoodles.

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Re: 3d Printing for low production run?

The part is too complicated for casting, I would have to make it from several pieces and then glue it together. The problem is that there are internal cable channels etc. I'm not saying it wouldn't be possible, but just not very practical. I use the solidoodle for prototyping and it works great, but I also have to glue the parts together. I was looking for a printer that is powder based or so, which would allow me to print the part as one piece. I'm just not sure how strong those parts are and if there are any other potential issues if used for finished parts.

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Re: 3d Printing for low production run?

If you don't want to own the printer, a service would be better. Either Shapeways or a rapid prototyping service that offers printing.  Look into Redeye or Protomold.   I don't think Shapeways offers ABS anymore which is what you would want.

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Re: 3d Printing for low production run?

I think renting a printer might end up to be cheaper. I'm also thinking about a few other potential products I might use it for.

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Re: 3d Printing for low production run?

Can you show us the part or a rough mockup... if it wouldn't give away too much or is this a secret invention... we might be able to give you other 'out-of-the-box' suggestions. I regularly make molds and cast quite a variety of items from various materials including metal, plastic and plaster materials.

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Re: 3d Printing for low production run?

I'm a little worried about posting anything at this stage. I know it is unlikely that it gets stolen, but there are a lot of mostly Chinese copy cats in the market that I am in and I just don't want to risk anything.
To just give you a better idea:
It's 5 separate parts each of them varies in terms of complexity. A medium complex part for example is a battery housing that will clip onto the main part (just like a canon camera batter clips onto a charger). The housing contains the actual battery and then has internal cable channels that lead to the contacts. Same goes for the main part. There are three cable channels that turn 90 degrees three times. The main part also has a shape that can't be molded very easily. It is basically a U shape that has an L shape attached to it at a 90 degree angle (U is in the x/y plane and L is in the Z plane). Cables run from both ends of the U internally all the way to the end of the short end of the L. Sorry for this complicated explanation, I hope it makes sense.

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Re: 3d Printing for low production run?

I hear what your saying about the thieves.. we have dealt with that quite a bit in out line of products in the past it is usually just about anybody who steals the design then they just farm it out to the chinese for production though....

Most of what you are describing sound thin-walled...not the best candidates for consumer fff printers... I guess it all depends on how tough and how much flex is going applied to certain areas of this design.

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Re: 3d Printing for low production run?

I just saw it happening a few months ago on another message board. A small european company posted some preview pictures of a new product that they were going to release within about 10 weeks. Within less than a month, a Chinese company released an exact copy of the same design. It was poorly machined, but for a 4th of the price the original designer was going to sell them for. It really made me think twice before posting something. Especially if a high percentage of the selling price goes into R&D.

I definitely won't print it on a consumer printer. I was thinking more of something along the lines of this: http://www.stratasys.com/3d-printers/pr … rtus-250mc
I just don't know how practical it would be and how durable the parts come out.

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Re: 3d Printing for low production run?

Going to be a hard sell if you cant produce a pic of it.  You wont be able to generate sales if you cant show it off in a brochure.

The nice thing about Shapeways,  if there is a market for it, they will sell it for you and give you a commission without having to carry a inventory.

I know you said no to this, yet I didnt know if you knew about their offer to sell it for you.

I am an open book, write on my pages that I may learn the wisdom that you posses.

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Re: 3d Printing for low production run?

Of course I will offer pics etc of it, but not until it is ready for sale. I already have re-sellers on the east cost and west cost for a couple of my products as well as my own store, so there's no point in giving away most of my profits to a company like Shapeways (wouldn't work anyways, because there's a lot of assembly needed, like electronics etc.). I'm not saying it is a bad service or anything, it just doesn't make sense in my case.

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Re: 3d Printing for low production run?

Stratasys printers have great quality, possibly the best in terms of FDM machines. I would also consider some of 3DSystems' production models.  If precision is what you are going for, check out their SLS (selective laser sintering) machines.

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Re: 3d Printing for low production run?

I just saw a high resolution picture that was printed on one of their FDM production machines. Looks pretty disappointing, not much better than what I get in my sub $1000 solidoodle, or am I missing something?
http://www.prismengblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/fortusstuff.jpg

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Re: 3d Printing for low production run?

Those shallow slopes show up the limitation of FDM, more than the machine itself.  The straight sides are smoother than what you get from a Solidoodle, mostly because the Solidoodle isn't using a a geared motor on the extruder.  Solidoodle prints tend to have a bit of moire or a dashed line appearance on straight walls due to the stepped motion of the extruder motor.  Gears or higher resolution steppers mean more steps/mm and smoother extrusion.

Aside from that the advantage Stratasys printers have is ease of use, reliability, and dimensional accuracy without excessive tinkering.  Also I would expect them to be less prone to warping or cracking due to the heated chamber.  The downside is that it achieves quality and reliability by printing really slowly.  Also I've heard the Mojo (their cheapest) only prints with solid infill which takes time and lots of plastic at $300 per cartridge.

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Re: 3d Printing for low production run?

Ian, do you know how many mm/sec these fortus machines print at?

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Re: 3d Printing for low production run?

You probably don't want a powder printer. Think sandstone. Most are a gypsum based powder glued together in layers, which is extremely brittle. You can fill the pores with a superglue likevsubstance, which will strengthen it, but it's not plastic like the SLS and FFM printers.

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Re: 3d Printing for low production run?

I noticed that the black region on those industrial printed pieces has a pretty terrible top surface finish.  It's funny to see those problems on an industrial machine when we have the same issues on some of our Solidoodles.  The difference is that we have the flexibility to easily tinker and address those problems directly.

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Re: 3d Printing for low production run?

Parts have quite a few issues, especially considering that those are promotional pictures, which means those parts are probably as good as it gets. A solidoodle with a dual extruder set-up that can print dissolvable support should be able to replicate those parts pretty accurately.