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Topic: Custom Drop-In replacement PCB for Da Vinci Mini

Anyone know where I can get one of these? You know, something that is an open hardware platform that can run repetier firmware or even allow completely custom firmware to be written? Oh, and it has to just drop into the Mini and fit perfectly with all of the ports in the same place, such that someone with zero hardware experience can install it with some care to avoid damaging the connectors. It has to use an STM32 series microcontroller, cause I like those. Maybe it will allow live debugging and accommodate an SD card if one is willing to add a small slot and port hole to their enclosure.

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Re: Custom Drop-In replacement PCB for Da Vinci Mini

There is no such thing and the closest you would get is converting it to  Ramps 1.4 machine. These Da Vinci machines are cheap machines and fit a niche market of people who want to get their feet wet in 3d printing without spending too much. That being said the market just is not big enough to be profitable for someone to develop, manufacture, and distribute a drop in board as you call it.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

3 (edited by The_Extruder 2018-04-29 05:42:47)

Re: Custom Drop-In replacement PCB for Da Vinci Mini

Haha! Just kidding! I know this doesn't exist yet. So.... I'm going to make it. First of all I'll answer some obvious questions up front:

1. Why?

That's an easy one - DRM Filament(of course) and also... These printers have terrible support! Mine was bad out of the box and it took forever to convince them that the printer was faulty and not that I was just another yahoo who didn't know how to use technology.

2. Why the Mini? Nobody likes the Mini! Do this for the Jr or the AIO or any other printer than the Mini!

Well, the Mini was the first one I bought. I mainly chose it over the Jr based on a review that suggested that it prints slightly better quality. Also, it was about $20 cheaper or so, although when I saw that crappy fold it yourself front cover, I wold have gladly paid the $20 for the fully enclosed version.

3. OK, so why not dump the Mini, get a Jr and then do your project?

Haha, that's easy. It seems like people are dumping Minis left and right! I can't throw a rock on CraigsList without hitting a <$100 almost new Mini that people just like me got frustrated with when they realized that 3D printers, while priced like Inkjets of 10 years ago, aren't actually just plug-and-print user friendly devices. I'm still struggling with printing more than just test Cubes, D&D 20-sided Dice, and a couple of Benchys. That's mostly because the initial defect took all of the excitement out of me and I have doubts that I'll actually be able to print one of those cool, working(well, moving) 8-cylinder engine blocks I see online.

Still, the glut of dumped Minis got me a second mini for just $50. It still had it's original spool of transparent yellow which had only about 3m printed off of it! By this time I had learned how to level the X-arm and adjust the Z-height. Also had learned a few tricks with the bed sticking(kapton tape + thin layer of gluestick made by diluting with a few drops of water and spreading by hane to make just a slight "haze" on the Kapton). It's still a pain to get large contact prints off without wrecking the bed tape, but I'm working that out.

So I have 2 minis so I can experiment on one while maintaining a "golden unit" just in case. If I brick one, the spare parts and extruder are well worth the $50.

Also, since the Mini seems the least hack friendly, I figured I'd be doing a service to the other poor souls with Minis that are not easily modified.

4. Why not just install a Ramps board and be done with it?

If you ever met me in person for more than 5 minutes, you'd know. I don't just re-invent the wheel. I fabricate a shiny streamlined, user and programmer friendly wheel that looks like it always belonged there. Wait... That analogy got away from me. Anyway, I like to create what I'm calling(coining?): FactoMods. That's a modification that fits exactly where the factory part came from like it was always meant to be there. I pull out the digital calipers and measure the board, mounting hole locations, connector part numbers and locations, etc... I largely use what's already there, and make it (hopefully) better. Someone wth no hardware experience other than the ability to know how to gingerly remove and replace delicate connectors(particularly the flex cable), will be able to install one of these. If other smart people help write/port the firmware, they also won't have to know anything about firmware programming either. There's still the host side stuff (slicer, etc), but I'm thinking of leveraging Python to make something that works a little better.

So... This post covers the "Why" Next I'll get a little more into the "What"

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Re: Custom Drop-In replacement PCB for Da Vinci Mini

Hee hee, I see someone already took the bait from the first post while I was typing the second. tongue

OK. I kind of covered the "What" in that first post, and I suspect that it will evolve as I learn things about these printers, but the platform in general will be this:

1. An STM32 Cortex-M4 or M7 based design. Possibly overkill, but MCUs are relatively cheap and I like power wink

2. The development environment will be: MBED. Cause it's free, platform agnostic, and allows drag and drop programming, so non-technical peeps can flash their firmware as easily as dragging a file.

3. The board will fit and connect exactly the same as the factory PCB. - Possible exceptions will include the need to drill or dremel a small hole for a USB Mini debug/console port and a slot for an SD card. There's plenty of space on the back to accommodate these and they may be optional.

4. I'm mulling over any additional hardware like screens etc, since there isn't really a place for them on the Mini. This may be the only non-FactoMod element besides the debug port and SD slot. I'd probably have the screen mount on that cover you pull off to get to the x-bar leveling screws. You'd have to reach in and disconnect a small header cable before removing that cover, or I could put in a service loop. You'd just have to make sure to tuck it to the left so it doesn't get caught in the machinery. yikes

5. Not sure what else for now. I currently know very little about repetier, but once I learn I'll figure out if it can be ported. But, I'm also going to create a library of APIs in case someone wants to completely write new custom firmware for fun or educational purposes.

Since this will take considerable time and prototyping investment, I'll start by producing boards and selling online. These should be completely legal, since I'm not circumventing anyone's DRM, and the STM32 will prove I'm not infringing on XYZs IP. Eventually I'll phase into selling bare PCBs and then release the schematic and board file under some open source, but not public domain license. I'm a long way from hardware, so I'll figure it out as I go. Any contributions I ASK FOR, will be given proper credit. Any unsolicited suggestions or ideas are forfeited by the presenter as there's no way to confirm that I hadn't already thought of or considered those. This is all relating to the hardware. Anything software related that starts from open source (like repetier) will be maintained under the appropriate license and available to anyone who wants to port it to hardware of their own design.

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Re: Custom Drop-In replacement PCB for Da Vinci Mini

Since i'm pre-answering the 5W's+H. I'll cover the rest here:

Who? : Why, me of course. An EE with over 20 years in the field. I've done everything from ASIC/FPGA design, computer motherboard design and integration, high speed I/O design and characterization, and most recently embedded architecture and design.

How? : As an independant contractor for a few years, I built up an infrastructure of design and test software and equipment. I have a commercial license for the Eagle-Pro PCB design tools, a decent 200Mhz Oscilloscope with SPI/I2C/CAN/LIN/UART decode modules, and a 235Mhz State/2Ghz Timing Logic analyzer. I've also got some pretty good soldering skills "for an engineer", and a small "Pizza" reflow oven.

When? : Haha. I have a lot of projects, A... LOT..., but this one will be getting a lot of attention in the next couple of months because it's new, and I like new things? Unexplored territory, for me at least.

Where? : Does it matter? Well, I am in the USA, if that matters...

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Re: Custom Drop-In replacement PCB for Da Vinci Mini

Oh yeah, how is it possible that the user name "The Extruder" had not been taken yet? I would have figured it would have been used by one of the first 10 people to sign up tongue

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Re: Custom Drop-In replacement PCB for Da Vinci Mini

IMHO reinventing the wheel or in this case a control board is not necessary the best path.
If you want to help yourself and others take the current version or an older one  of marlin and change it t run on existing OS hardware. then do a tutorial to show people how to rebuild there machines.
or sell ramps/arduino boards.  pre loaded with firmware. Nothing saying you can not sell Open source but  you must have the source code open and available.

IMHO the people that were sucked into a cheap plug and play machine may not have the time money or technical experience to build there own machine. Or rebuild the one they just bought.
There are lots of good boards out there but cost more than the cheap davinci. so the old  conundrum how do you make good stuff cheap or at least afordable.

Good luck with your endeavor. .

Soliddoodle 4 stock w glass bed------Folger Tech Prusa 2020 upgraded to and titan /aero extruder mirror bed
FT5 with titan/ E3D Aero------MP mini select w glass bed
MP Utimate maker pro-W bondtech extruder
Marlin/Repetier Host/ Slic3r and Cura

8

Re: Custom Drop-In replacement PCB for Da Vinci Mini

Lot of work considering there already is an easy to use Java based program to program and use your own blank NFC213 tags and third party filament.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

9 (edited by The_Extruder 2018-04-29 20:30:56)

Re: Custom Drop-In replacement PCB for Da Vinci Mini

Tin Falcon wrote:

IMHO reinventing the wheel or in this case a control board is not necessary the best path. .

Oh, I'm actually not attempting to re-invent. I'm attempting to innovate and make something that is less Hack and more drop in improvement. I start in a virtual vacuum so my thoughts are not steered intentionally toward what has already been done. Also, as many 3rd rate 3D printer companies have proven, when you just copy another product without fully understanding the nuances(control systems, fluid dynamics), you end up making and selling a product you don't understand, and no surprise, it ends up being considered "crap".

Tin Falcon wrote:

If you want to help yourself and others take the current version or an older one  of marlin and change it t run on existing OS hardware. then do a tutorial to show people how to rebuild there machines.
or sell ramps/arduino boards.  pre loaded with firmware.  .

Atmel 8-bit processor based? No thanks. Also, why would I want to be just another tutorial writer that shows you how to wire up rats nest? Again, I don't know the full specifics or capabilities of the ramps based hardware, but with an 8-bit MCU, I'm suspecting you can't just dump a job onto it and have it print. It's likely getting spoon fed instructions from the host. Again, I could be wrong and I don't even want to know as I want to embark on this with no preconceptions. Otherwise, I'm just copying, not innovating. That's the real goal for me. I'm suddenly curious about 3D printer technology and precisely how it works. What better way to learn than by making a platform. Since mechanical fabrication and ID are actually costly, why not use this cheap, troublesome-for-many, Mini and use it as a starting point? The people wth those machines, I'm sure would love to have a drop in board and not have to hack together a rats nest of harnesses. A solution for non-hackers if you will.

Tin Falcon wrote:

Nothing saying you can not sell Open source but  you must have the source code open and available.  .

Never said I wanted to sell firmware. I would only sell the hardware. But I may develop my own set of APIs as well for myself or anyone else who may have innovative ideas they want to test out that don't fit in with the existing open source firmware platforms. Any engineer knows that there are potentially hundreds of ways to solve the same problem. I'm assuming we may not yet have found the best one for cartesian based 3D printing tongue

Tin Falcon wrote:

IMHO the people that were sucked into a cheap plug and play machine may not have the time money or technical experience to build there own machine. Or rebuild the one they just bought.
There are lots of good boards out there but cost more than the cheap davinci. so the old  conundrum how do you make good stuff cheap or at least afordable. .

Hence the drop in board. No rebuilding required. As far as cost, I'm hesitant to speculate this early in the project, but It will definitely not cost near as much as a new Mini. It will likely coat more than a Ramps + 4 Polulus, but should be competitive given the hardware features it will include.

Tin Falcon wrote:

Good luck with your endeavor. .

Thanks smile , although it will take more time than luck, in this case. I kind of already have the hardware architected in my head...

10

Re: Custom Drop-In replacement PCB for Da Vinci Mini

carl_m1968 wrote:

Lot of work considering there already is an easy to use Java based program to program and use your own blank NFC213 tags and third party filament.


This is not just about the tags. I like to make stuff! Also, I may learn something about the extruder during my experimentation that suggests we could also use ABS with this printer. Impossible with the existing hardware or at least firmware platform. Maybe not a limitation of the extruder with the proper driving hardware? Perhaps. Once I learn the pinout of the extruder, I may make a standalone test fixture where I can dial in the temperature and push different filament through it. Also, I could do some "burn-in"(Ha, a pun!) longevity testing as well.

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Re: Custom Drop-In replacement PCB for Da Vinci Mini

The_Extruder wrote:
carl_m1968 wrote:

Lot of work considering there already is an easy to use Java based program to program and use your own blank NFC213 tags and third party filament.


This is not just about the tags. I like to make stuff! Also, I may learn something about the extruder during my experimentation that suggests we could also use ABS with this printer. Impossible with the existing hardware or at least firmware platform. Maybe not a limitation of the extruder with the proper driving hardware? Perhaps. Once I learn the pinout of the extruder, I may make a standalone test fixture where I can dial in the temperature and push different filament through it. Also, I could do some "burn-in"(Ha, a pun!) longevity testing as well.


The minimover app lets you set the machine to do PLA, ABS, and PETG. So again you technically are late to the game. All you are doing is just basically making an enclosed 32 bit machine such as my CT'c and the Azteeg X5.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

12

Re: Custom Drop-In replacement PCB for Da Vinci Mini

carl_m1968 wrote:

The minimover app lets you set the machine to do PLA, ABS, and PETG. So again you technically are late to the game. All you are doing is just basically making an enclosed 32 bit machine such as my CT'c and the Azteeg X5.

You may want to re-read my stated motivations. In the end, I'll have made a better Mini; it won't look like a hack job; other Mini owners will easily be able to install it, and I'll learn a ton about how a 3D printer works in the process. If I wasn't motivated by the sum total of those goals, I'd just go buy one of the existing hacks.

13 (edited by Tin Falcon 2018-04-30 00:43:40)

Re: Custom Drop-In replacement PCB for Da Vinci Mini

IMHO if you are going to reinvent the the main board make it universal like the arduino Ramps so it can work  on any 3d printer.  I understand folks will have to work with the physical format a bit but we already have to do that with the ramps.

Marlin is already 32 bit comparable then  i is a matter of tweaking Marlin or repitier for the most popular printers. 
If i was developing a new board I woul make sure it is compatable with trinamic drives  they seem to be one of the up and coming technologies.

If you are anywhere close to Bel Air Md, come out to EERF and see what much of the rest of the world  is doing   http://eastcoastreprapfestival.com/

Soliddoodle 4 stock w glass bed------Folger Tech Prusa 2020 upgraded to and titan /aero extruder mirror bed
FT5 with titan/ E3D Aero------MP mini select w glass bed
MP Utimate maker pro-W bondtech extruder
Marlin/Repetier Host/ Slic3r and Cura

14

Re: Custom Drop-In replacement PCB for Da Vinci Mini

Tin Falcon wrote:

IMHO if you are going to reinvent the the main board make it universal like the arduino Ramps so it can work  on any 3d printer.  I understand folks will have to work with the physical format a bit but we already have to do that with the ramps.

Marlin is already 32 bit comparable then  i is a matter of tweaking Marlin or repitier for the most popular printers. 
If i was developing a new board I woul make sure it is compatable with trinamic drives  they seem to be one of the up and coming technologies.

If you are anywhere close to Bel Air Md, come out to EERF and see what much of the rest of the world  is doing   http://eastcoastreprapfestival.com/

Well, the first one I make is going to be exactly what I want. If I have luck with it, I can respin it for other printers or make a universal one. It would just be a layout change and possibly some resistor options for extruder voltage and current settings. I'll check out the Trinamic driver chips, but I'll be checking out all of the options available. These QFN motor drivers are new to me. The one's I'm used to using are HTSSOP with big pins and a slug on the bottom. That was for non-stepper BLDC's though with a stall current at 4.0A.

I'm on the wrong coast for EERF, but I'm actually not diving full in to 3D printing at this stage. This just one of many, varied, projects I'm working on. wink

15 (edited by carl_m1968 2018-04-30 21:30:55)

Re: Custom Drop-In replacement PCB for Da Vinci Mini

The_Extruder wrote:
carl_m1968 wrote:

The minimover app lets you set the machine to do PLA, ABS, and PETG. So again you technically are late to the game. All you are doing is just basically making an enclosed 32 bit machine such as my CT'c and the Azteeg X5.

You may want to re-read my stated motivations. In the end, I'll have made a better Mini; it won't look like a hack job; other Mini owners will easily be able to install it, and I'll learn a ton about how a 3D printer works in the process. If I wasn't motivated by the sum total of those goals, I'd just go buy one of the existing hacks.


The minimover APP is nothing but an APP for your phone that allows you to buy blank NFC tags and program them with your desired settings and filament type. You then place it over the tag reader in the machine in place of the one on the spool. Then use the filament of your choice. There is no modification to the machine, no change in appearance or function or program. Just giving it a different tag to read.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

16

Re: Custom Drop-In replacement PCB for Da Vinci Mini

carl_m1968 wrote:
The_Extruder wrote:
carl_m1968 wrote:

The minimover app lets you set the machine to do PLA, ABS, and PETG. So again you technically are late to the game. All you are doing is just basically making an enclosed 32 bit machine such as my CT'c and the Azteeg X5.

You may want to re-read my stated motivations. In the end, I'll have made a better Mini; it won't look like a hack job; other Mini owners will easily be able to install it, and I'll learn a ton about how a 3D printer works in the process. If I wasn't motivated by the sum total of those goals, I'd just go buy one of the existing hacks.


The minimover APP is nothing but an APP for your phone that allows you to buy blank NFC tags and program them with your desired settings and filament type. You then place it over the tag reader in the machine in place of the one on the spool. Then use the filament of your choice. There is no modification to the machine, no change in appearance or function or program. Just giving it a different tag to read.


Ah, but I thought the Mini(And, perhaps JR) was(were) incapable of printing ABS because you could not command the extruder to print at ABS temperatures. Is that not true?

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Re: Custom Drop-In replacement PCB for Da Vinci Mini

The_Extruder wrote:
carl_m1968 wrote:
The_Extruder wrote:

You may want to re-read my stated motivations. In the end, I'll have made a better Mini; it won't look like a hack job; other Mini owners will easily be able to install it, and I'll learn a ton about how a 3D printer works in the process. If I wasn't motivated by the sum total of those goals, I'd just go buy one of the existing hacks.


The minimover APP is nothing but an APP for your phone that allows you to buy blank NFC tags and program them with your desired settings and filament type. You then place it over the tag reader in the machine in place of the one on the spool. Then use the filament of your choice. There is no modification to the machine, no change in appearance or function or program. Just giving it a different tag to read.


Ah, but I thought the Mini(And, perhaps JR) was(were) incapable of printing ABS because you could not command the extruder to print at ABS temperatures. Is that not true?

Might be true, but I am pretty sure there are user doing ABS. Most people who buy these junk piles and decide to keep them usually print a new extruder and install a better hotend first thing. The stock hotends have a very well known history of constant jams. So you would most likely need to swap out your hotend as well in your project to be as fully functional as you want. Otherwise there is no real meaning to making an open source board since you would still be limited by the hotend.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

18 (edited by The_Extruder 2018-05-01 17:08:43)

Re: Custom Drop-In replacement PCB for Da Vinci Mini

carl_m1968 wrote:

Might be true, but I am pretty sure there are user doing ABS. Most people who buy these junk piles and decide to keep them usually print a new extruder and install a better hotend first thing. The stock hotends have a very well known history of constant jams. So you would most likely need to swap out your hotend as well in your project to be as fully functional as you want. Otherwise there is no real meaning to making an open source board since you would still be limited by the hotend.

I see no reference to anyone printing ABS on a Mini. The firmware limits the extruder temp to 200°C +/- 10°C. Is there a web page referencing someone 3D printing an improved extruder the Da Vinci Mini? I used to think my Hot End was jamming too, then I learned about Z-height adjustment. No problems with that now. My printer did have an issue with the filament drivers overheating causing the feed motor to not run at all partway into a print, but guess what? That's a board issue! There's a whole thread on this forum relating to porting Repetier or Marlin over to the JR. How is what I'm not doing better than that? In both cases you'd have a clean hardware solution but in my case, there will be much better hardware under the hood. This in turn will allow for better firmware to be written and developed, not just ported.

Also, is no one reading my motivations? I want to learn about 3D printing by doing the hardware from scratch. That is the meaning for me. Just because you personally and others have no interest in my project, because you clearly do not have a Mini, does not make my project meaningless. I'm betting there are Mini owners who will appreciate what I'm doing, but that's not a requirement, just a perk. The Mini is not as junky as people might think, it's just poor implementation. I'm starting to gather that the Mini might be made with better parts than the JR. Maybe the JR jambs all the time, you can't automatically say the Mini does the same. The Mini has a 24V head while the JR has a 12V head. The engineer in me says that's better. Not because 24 > 12, but because at 24V it takes half the current to push the same amount of power. I'm going to suggest that of all the $200 platforms, I've chosen perhaps the best one to make my project. It's one thing to know how to hack something and write up instructions, it's another to understand precisely how and why something works. You cannot innovate if you don't know PRECISELY how the thing works, you can only copy and be another "me too" PCB hack. If I don't see the potential for innovation, then there would be no little point in my project. For people who claim "There's nothing left to innovate here, it's all been done." I say that's the difference between a hacker and an innovator. ;P

19

Re: Custom Drop-In replacement PCB for Da Vinci Mini

If you want to design a board go for it . IMHO there is plenty of room for innovation. Just make sure you are making measurable improvements . This is a hobby how you go about it is your business. 
And do not take carl wrong he is just citing previous work  and trying to lead you away from pitfalls and redundancy.

Soliddoodle 4 stock w glass bed------Folger Tech Prusa 2020 upgraded to and titan /aero extruder mirror bed
FT5 with titan/ E3D Aero------MP mini select w glass bed
MP Utimate maker pro-W bondtech extruder
Marlin/Repetier Host/ Slic3r and Cura

20

Re: Custom Drop-In replacement PCB for Da Vinci Mini

Tin Falcon wrote:

If you want to design a board go for it . IMHO there is plenty of room for innovation. Just make sure you are making measurable improvements . This is a hobby how you go about it is your business. 
And do not take carl wrong he is just citing previous work  and trying to lead you away from pitfalls and redundancy.


Sure, I get it. I just thought I was quite clear on my exact reasons for my project being intentionally different from what is already out there. You know how the veterans like to chide the noobs with "read the whole thread". Well... tongue

21

Re: Custom Drop-In replacement PCB for Da Vinci Mini

Joe prusa has a a color changer built into his newest printer.

BNC sigma just released all the fies for there sigmax (Dual independant head}
And the folds at e3d are developing a 4 head tool change system.
And iirc the folks at ultimaker still have source files for there machines available.
you may want to take a look at this technology as well.

This is the beauty of open source you can improve on others work legally and help everyone in the process.

Whatever you decide have fun this is a hobby.

Soliddoodle 4 stock w glass bed------Folger Tech Prusa 2020 upgraded to and titan /aero extruder mirror bed
FT5 with titan/ E3D Aero------MP mini select w glass bed
MP Utimate maker pro-W bondtech extruder
Marlin/Repetier Host/ Slic3r and Cura

22

Re: Custom Drop-In replacement PCB for Da Vinci Mini

I read the whole post, and then got to the end and after all the discussion didn't find the procedure, or the hardware available.
I would love to rebuild my Mini to make it better than it was before.
Can you send me a message about it?
thanks