1 (edited by TheBarnetts 2016-02-14 21:12:31)

Topic: Extruder temp falls back to room temp at start

Hello,

My old SD3 extruder has been heating up to 210 as requested, but when I hit start print, it tops out at 210 and will plummet back down to room temp over time. It is not just an indication problem as it does cool off completely. Seems like a software problem to me, but I wouldn't know what to change. Any help/advice is welcome. Thanks!

[EDIT/update] I have since discovered that the printer would cool down and refuse to print (or stop mid print) because it was throwing out a 'max temp' fault that you can see the in log screenshot below. My filament was always jamming because it was not actually hot, so it was not indicating properly obviously. Ultimately, I want to replace the thermistor and see if that is the source of the problem, BUT my temporary fix was to change the limits in the firmware from 225 to 270 and trick my machine into running 'hotter'.

2

Re: Extruder temp falls back to room temp at start

Sounds like a short or damaged wire. If it reads fine when not in motion, I would recommend tracing the lines back to the board.

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!

3

Re: Extruder temp falls back to room temp at start

What temp are you setting in your slicer?

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

4

Re: Extruder temp falls back to room temp at start

carl_m1968 wrote:

What temp are you setting in your slicer?

I have slicer set at 210 and printer limit at 210.

5

Re: Extruder temp falls back to room temp at start

TheBarnetts wrote:
carl_m1968 wrote:

What temp are you setting in your slicer?

I have slicer set at 210 and printer limit at 210.

If your printer limit is set to 210 then you are most likely going into an over temp mode and shutting down. Your limit should always be about 20 above your desired max. As during heating there is overshoot of a few degrees and that can put some firmware into shutdown mode.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

6

Re: Extruder temp falls back to room temp at start

Thanks for the advice! Will try and update.

7

Re: Extruder temp falls back to room temp at start

carl_m1968 wrote:

If your printer limit is set to 210 then you are most likely going into an over temp mode and shutting down. Your limit should always be about 20 above your desired max. As during heating there is overshoot of a few degrees and that can put some firmware into shutdown mode.

Well, I tried it and it still occurs every once in a while still. I figured out that when the temp starts dropping to restart repetier host, manually turn on the heat, and start the print once it is completely hot, it will work most of the time. Thanks for your time though!

8 (edited by TheBarnetts 2016-02-04 01:46:07)

Re: Extruder temp falls back to room temp at start

Ok so I have some more details that may help a more experienced printer figure out what is wrong. I can print if my temp is set below 210. Any higher and it will begin to drop as soon as it reaches the desired temp. I set the printer settings for the extruder temp to 240 and the print settings to 200 because that is all it will allow for some reason as previously tested. I reflashed the firmware to see if something was wrong, but same result. Please help! I need to print ABS soon because my acrylic extruder won't take much more maintenance! Thanks for your time.

[EDIT] Oh, and it's been stopping mid print without any indication that it's blocked mechanically. The code still runs as if the printer doesn't know that it stopped... don't know if the two are related...

9

Re: Extruder temp falls back to room temp at start

Are you getting a Max temp error?  The stock SD hot end reads 20-30 degrees cooler than actual due to thermistor location.  Looks like it is hitting the max temp preset of 220.  You should have no problems extruding ABS at a set temp of 212-215.  When you reflashed the firmware did you change the max temp setting?  That PEEK hot end can't take much higher temps than the reported 220 (closer to 250).
As for it stopping mid print, if it hits max temp it will stop so fix that first.  Otherwise you have a USB connection issue or bad PSU connection.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

10

Re: Extruder temp falls back to room temp at start

wardjr wrote:

Are you getting a Max temp error?  The stock SD hot end reads 20-30 degrees cooler than actual due to thermistor location.  Looks like it is hitting the max temp preset of 220.  You should have no problems extruding ABS at a set temp of 212-215.  When you reflashed the firmware did you change the max temp setting?  That PEEK hot end can't take much higher temps than the reported 220 (closer to 250).
As for it stopping mid print, if it hits max temp it will stop so fix that first.  Otherwise you have a USB connection issue or bad PSU connection.

Well, dang, I guess it is topping out. I've never had the max temp error before and I've run with it indicating higher temps... Should I go into the code and increase the max temp? I'm having trouble even printing with PLA... Also THANK YOU for helping me man. I'm still learning a lot and really appreciate it! http://soliforum.com/i/?YtPlgkY.jpg

11

Re: Extruder temp falls back to room temp at start

Is the thermistor properly attached?
Have you done PID Autotune? (Check the WIKI)
Is it possible that you have a clog?
Do you have the means to verify actual temp?  IR thermometer is not very accurate in this situation.
If you change max temp in the firmware you risk your hot end.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

12

Re: Extruder temp falls back to room temp at start

Based on the log your MAXTEMP is being triggered due to overshoot. You should never set your temp for more than 10 less of your printers max temp. During initial heating it will overshoot the desired temp by several degrees. If this makes the temp pass your firmwares MAX TEMP you will get what you are seeinh. It is a safety feature to try and catch thermal runaway. This assumes the logic is working during said runaway and not frozen.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

13

Re: Extruder temp falls back to room temp at start

Have you tried the wonder drug? Shut off the printer, unplug the USB, restart?

Robox printer, HICTOP (Prusa i3 variant) Model 3DP17 printer, ELEK 2.5W laser engraver, AutoDesk 123D Design, Windows 10

14

Re: Extruder temp falls back to room temp at start

TheBarnetts wrote:
wardjr wrote:

Are you getting a Max temp error?  The stock SD hot end reads 20-30 degrees cooler than actual due to thermistor location.  Looks like it is hitting the max temp preset of 220.  You should have no problems extruding ABS at a set temp of 212-215.  When you reflashed the firmware did you change the max temp setting?  That PEEK hot end can't take much higher temps than the reported 220 (closer to 250).
As for it stopping mid print, if it hits max temp it will stop so fix that first.  Otherwise you have a USB connection issue or bad PSU connection.

Well, dang, I guess it is topping out. I've never had the max temp error before and I've run with it indicating higher temps... Should I go into the code and increase the max temp? I'm having trouble even printing with PLA... Also THANK YOU for helping me man. I'm still learning a lot and really appreciate it! http://soliforum.com/i/?YtPlgkY.jpg


If you are having to go beyond 235 to print PLA then you have an issue with the temp not being reported correctly and it is lower than being reported. You need to confirm with a contact thermometer that can read high temps what your actual hotend temp is. The you can just do a mental offset in your head to compensate. As long as the actual temp is not 235 then you could raise the MAX TEMP in your code. BUT and I stress BUT you should find out why the temp is not reported correctly. Do you have the correct device selected in the firmware. IS the PID calibrated?

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

15

Re: Extruder temp falls back to room temp at start

Well, I set the max temp to 270 in the firmware, 240 in the printer settings, 220 in cura settings and it still gives me a max temp fault and shuts off when it clearly isn't hot enough. As soon as it hits around 215, it throws up the max temp error. Wtf, over?

16

Re: Extruder temp falls back to room temp at start

Max temp error is strictly firmware driven.  You are gonna have to ensure that the flash actually took.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

17

Re: Extruder temp falls back to room temp at start

wardjr wrote:

Max temp error is strictly firmware driven.  You are gonna have to ensure that the flash actually took.

That was it! Turned out I had the wrong board selected to upload to... thanks to all that have helped me get this far. I know it was probably trying to listen to someone as inexperienced as myself. Fingers crossed that my hot end doesn't burn out before I can print the ABS pieces to make an ed3 bowden mod.

18

Re: Extruder temp falls back to room temp at start

you will melt the Peek at those temps. I always print ABS with My SD2 and can never set temp above 200c as it often overshoots to 210 and 215 is limit due to ruining PEEK if higher besides other issues. ABS prints fine at 195 in my SD2 unless printing large solid infil using layers thicker than .2 then the cooldown during recovery which drops to like 188 makes it too stiff to feed that fast, thats why I raised to 200 to keep min above 193 where it begins getting stiff. this was main issue I had printing the large parts for my Atlas scanner besides slic3r bug on my old version of Slic3r creating bad gcode on a few parts for some reason.

these are some reasons for the upgrades most do on Solidoodle printers.

Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

19

Re: Extruder temp falls back to room temp at start

n2ri wrote:

you will melt the Peek at those temps. I always print ABS with My SD2 and can never set temp above 200c as it often overshoots to 210 and 215 is limit due to ruining PEEK if higher besides other issues. ABS prints fine at 195 in my SD2 unless printing large solid infil using layers thicker than .2 then the cooldown during recovery which drops to like 188 makes it too stiff to feed that fast, thats why I raised to 200 to keep min above 193 where it begins getting stiff. this was main issue I had printing the large parts for my Atlas scanner besides slic3r bug on my old version of Slic3r creating bad gcode on a few parts for some reason.

these are some reasons for the upgrades most do on Solidoodle printers.

Pretty sure I have the exact opposite problem. My printer has an under shoot of 30c at least. I think my thermistor is on it's last leg so I'll reset the firmware and start from the bottom when I get my new kit. Currently printing at "260c" with ABS. It would have definitely failed if there wasn't an indication mismatch.

20 (edited by n2ri 2016-02-13 05:16:39)

Re: Extruder temp falls back to room temp at start

TheBarnetts wrote:
n2ri wrote:

you will melt the Peek at those temps. I always print ABS with My SD2 and can never set temp above 200c as it often overshoots to 210 and 215 is limit due to ruining PEEK if higher besides other issues. ABS prints fine at 195 in my SD2 unless printing large solid infil using layers thicker than .2 then the cooldown during recovery which drops to like 188 makes it too stiff to feed that fast, thats why I raised to 200 to keep min above 193 where it begins getting stiff. this was main issue I had printing the large parts for my Atlas scanner besides slic3r bug on my old version of Slic3r creating bad gcode on a few parts for some reason.

these are some reasons for the upgrades most do on Solidoodle printers.

Pretty sure I have the exact opposite problem. My printer has an under shoot of 30c at least. I think my thermistor is on it's last leg so I'll reset the firmware and start from the bottom when I get my new kit. Currently printing at "260c" with ABS. It would have definitely failed if there wasn't an indication mismatch.


your above posts say its hitting limit. that limit is what protects things like the Peek, thermisters etc that have operating temp limits on stock SD printers

Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

21

Re: Extruder temp falls back to room temp at start

n2ri wrote:
TheBarnetts wrote:
n2ri wrote:

you will melt the Peek at those temps. I always print ABS with My SD2 and can never set temp above 200c as it often overshoots to 210 and 215 is limit due to ruining PEEK if higher besides other issues. ABS prints fine at 195 in my SD2 unless printing large solid infil using layers thicker than .2 then the cooldown during recovery which drops to like 188 makes it too stiff to feed that fast, thats why I raised to 200 to keep min above 193 where it begins getting stiff. this was main issue I had printing the large parts for my Atlas scanner besides slic3r bug on my old version of Slic3r creating bad gcode on a few parts for some reason.

these are some reasons for the upgrades most do on Solidoodle printers.

Pretty sure I have the exact opposite problem. My printer has an under shoot of 30c at least. I think my thermistor is on it's last leg so I'll reset the firmware and start from the bottom when I get my new kit. Currently printing at "260c" with ABS. It would have definitely failed if there wasn't an indication mismatch.


your above posts say its hitting limit. that limit is what protects things like the Peek, thermisters etc that have operating temp limits on stock SD printers

Emphasis on 'says'. Yes, it says it's reaching the limit when it very cleary isn't actually that hot. PLA was jamming at '210' indication because it simply wasn't actually 210. My guess, as previously stated, is that the thermistor is becoming less accurate and is depicting a higher temp over time. I plan on changing the thermistor, reseting the firmware limits to default, and seeing if the discrepancy duplicates after the part is changed.

22

Re: Extruder temp falls back to room temp at start

get a good IR thermometer or better yet an sensitive electronic one with tiny K-type thermocouple like Refrigeration techs use for super heat but make sure it handles temps that high. see if it reads same temps at same spots. that expencive Thermometer can be bought for about $100 at HVAC supply stores. and worth it for future uses. they are as fast as the thermisters and can be calibrated using instructions that come with it. I use Ice and that gives low end base point, high base can be boiling water if not in high altitude. good investment for saving costly parts replacements etc.

Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

23

Re: Extruder temp falls back to room temp at start

I can sooo identify with this.  Yesterday I just received a couple rolls of the color fab ngen amphora co-polyester and I immediately tried to print at 230c the specs recommend printing at 220c- 240c . and my SD 4 wanted act like a warm brick. I actually was wondering if my laptop was losing its mind. After a frustrating afternoon I had come to the conclusion I was hitting the high limit of the SD4.  I then read this post that confirmed my suspicion. I was worried that had  paid good money for filament I could not use until i updated my hot end ad was concerned my nozzle would be clogged.
so today after sleeping on the problem I decided to push forward  i reset my print temp to 220. and tied again. and have had several successful prints. This hobby can be a challenge at times.
Tin

Soliddoodle 4 stock w glass bed------Folger Tech Prusa 2020 upgraded to and titan /aero extruder mirror bed
FT5 with titan/ E3D Aero------MP mini select w glass bed
MP Utimate maker pro-W bondtech extruder
Marlin/Repetier Host/ Slic3r and Cura

24

Re: Extruder temp falls back to room temp at start

Guys,

This is going to make us all feel really stupid. There is no need in re-flashing firmware, changing the heater element, or even the thermistor if you’re getting the overheating error. I just discovered that after this happened all I had to do was go to the print panel in repetier host, go to the white text field where one can enter the g-code commands and send to the printer Code M999 and click send. This fixed my problem.  It basically tells you to do this when you get the error! Ha hope this helps anyone who has been having this issue.

But also, to make sure your hot end isn’t messing up, take a multimeter and measure across the RG57 resistive element to make sure the resistance is around 7 ohms. On my Solidoodle Gen2 the white powdery substance broke loose from the element and the hot end would not retain as much heat as usual. I secured this in place to regain heat by wrapping some stainless steel foil around the element and cramming it back into place.