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Topic: Z retract & 1st Layer

Well I have done the basic tweaks and I think other then improvements or needs for certain prints or multiple prints the stock SD2 works well. I have recently made some larger engineered parts (4.5" diameter PVC spacers about 2" tall) and they are very accurate.

I did the zwobble, z stop nut thing (I want to add a small spring washer though) along with calibrate the temp and extruder.
And I notice with no covers on the front of the case I get small delamination on the front of prints but not too bad.

Two things I have noticed:

1: All those other things aside I can still print well even if few of the above are off. BUT after making my large part and the 2nd one came out like crap. I realized the bed was off from pulling the first one off. SO I re leveled and got better but I half-arsed it so I had to repeat to full level. About a 10min process. and whoila another even print. So Comment: I can not believe how critical a level bed compared to the other steps.

I leveled my bed with thick paper on the outside 3 points near the level screws and back the z down to zero until the paper just fits with slight pressure under the head. I now the middle of bed is warped cause that will not allow paper without much effort. but doing that does the trick.

I am wondering aside from a dial indicator. Anyone have luck using a bubble site glass? the bulls eye one?

2: With the bed level I see 2 things that I still like to tweak: the first 1-3 layers are critical.
I know my print is good when I even layers of infill going down looks uniform. Really good prints have all white lines with no blobbing. Now even with that some areas of the bed appear thinner (still smooth) but thin like thin ice see the kapton more and others might have few small blobs of plastic in the infill.

None of this effects the print after layer 5 and everything evens out but I think there is some bed warpness for some of it. but I suspect that that with interior perimeters I might have slight dragging. across small circles might be grabbing this plastic. If I lower/raise the zstop or relevel the whole print bed is off and the prints are shot so I know it is dialed in as best as possible and just in certain spots it appears. 

Will the z retract in slic3r really impact this? I am running at 1.9mm retract at 60mm/s and 0 z lift?

See the image below. couple spots where you see the drag or blobs in top left corner and bottom right corner. I improved that by lowering the flow rate down .1 and you can see near the middle edges the thin ice layers. I suspect that is the bed is hiigher at the middle then the edges and squishes down too much.

So is the z drag an issue? any tips
Bed as level as is, i might need to sand the middle down.

after a few layers you can see that even white smoothness but the top right corner still has what looks like a dragging? or possible is it just cooling from enclosure.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-IP2_ruhSaYI/USTkEcM38TI/AAAAAAAAAmk/NIW35VgArWE/s902/Photo+Feb+19%2C+10+03+42+PM+%281%29.jpg

and then a bigger print that came out great imho but still had the first layers with similar issues.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-PTdS2OyPcsE/UTH_ungiNJI/AAAAAAAAApg/l9HpcpgopPM/s902/Photo+Mar+02%2C+7+37+15+AM.jpg

SD2 owner- Surestepr, filament holder,QUBD servo and heaters, glass bed
Print for fun and for parts for my sports cars
current car is 88 IROC

2 (edited by ysb 2013-03-04 15:39:16)

Re: Z retract & 1st Layer

i think you need to adjust your Z start position (your first layer is too thin... use your Z limit screw.. or use a more thick paper when you do your calibration) and double check your flow of plastic after that... (reduce it a bit... you can do it in live with repetier host... second slider under speed adjustement... try to put it at 90% ... then 95 if there is space between two lines..)

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Re: Z retract & 1st Layer

Yes I dial back the z before but then the skirt (my tell tale of a good print and kill job moment) comes out like a string you can see it is rounded on top and too thin then I know the layers will pull up. Like you said:

Maybe start there back off the z stop THEN re adjust the flowrate. I can squeeze a little more then which will squish it down some more into the bed?

SD2 owner- Surestepr, filament holder,QUBD servo and heaters, glass bed
Print for fun and for parts for my sports cars
current car is 88 IROC

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Re: Z retract & 1st Layer

For calibrating the bed some other companies use a model that basically is a + with rounded edges places with the edges near the corner of the bed.  That way when you print it you can see if the bed is flat across the whole platform.  I will attach one that you can scale X & Y, leave Z at default.

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Re: Z retract & 1st Layer

Thank you, makes sense

SD2 owner- Surestepr, filament holder,QUBD servo and heaters, glass bed
Print for fun and for parts for my sports cars
current car is 88 IROC

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Re: Z retract & 1st Layer

Made me think, What is the recommended gap for the first layer off the bed to provide good adhesion? Assuming most people run 0.3mm for first layer even at 0.1mm prints. should I be at 0.2mm gap so I get some downward squish?

SD2 owner- Surestepr, filament holder,QUBD servo and heaters, glass bed
Print for fun and for parts for my sports cars
current car is 88 IROC

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Re: Z retract & 1st Layer

Don't judge too much from the skirt, sometimes it is more rounded just because it isn't up to the full flow rate yet.  Go by the fill in the model, and even then you can't really judge how it is doing because of the first layer squish.  The 2nd and third layers will give you an indication of how the print is going.

You can set the first layer at .3mm if in Slic3r you set the first layer perimeter to something like 150% or 200%.  It sticks because the thread is wider giving it more surface contact.  You can accomplish that by squishing the first layer, or setting it to make the first layer threads wider.

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Re: Z retract & 1st Layer

OK so here is a 3rd layer of my level setup I think it looks pretty good as you said and it had similar 1st layers like above.

yes I run a .3mm 1st and all my projects have been at .3mm layers anyway to save time and filament as I learn the machine. So far for the machine parts I want the .3mm layers looks fine and feels strong. Does .1mm give anymore strength?

unclear about your first layer comment: I can set the width for first layer wider I get that, but how will that make it squish more is it because it will increase the flowrate more? I print at .3mm anyway now so that wouldnt change.

SD2 owner- Surestepr, filament holder,QUBD servo and heaters, glass bed
Print for fun and for parts for my sports cars
current car is 88 IROC

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Re: Z retract & 1st Layer

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-_vgRJJUf2mU/USy8i7N3M2I/AAAAAAAAAok/GdbAS2UlJzM/s902/Photo+Feb+26%2C+12+50+28+AM.jpg

SD2 owner- Surestepr, filament holder,QUBD servo and heaters, glass bed
Print for fun and for parts for my sports cars
current car is 88 IROC

10 (edited by ysb 2013-03-04 19:32:31)

Re: Z retract & 1st Layer

flowrate is a little too high...

when the flow rate is good, you will not see any "ridge"

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Re: Z retract & 1st Layer

OK makes sense, I was going in the wrong direction thinking I had too little flow rate.
It is very sensitive too. IE: 0.78 or below is too much looks good on 1st layers but holes in thin walls and delamination appears as layers build. .8 looks good too .82 seems too high blobs in corners. but I run at. 79 maybe try .785

SD2 owner- Surestepr, filament holder,QUBD servo and heaters, glass bed
Print for fun and for parts for my sports cars
current car is 88 IROC

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Re: Z retract & 1st Layer

Have a look at this post - http://solidoodletips.wordpress.com/201 … flow-rate/

You print a wall that is 1 thread wide and measure that to see if its width is the same as the extrusion width that has been set in Slic3r.  If it isn't, then the extrusion multiplier needs to be adjusted.  It's more objective than trying to judge it by looks.

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Re: Z retract & 1st Layer

Yes I used your awesome writeup for all my methods. I think my measurement and crappy calipers are more the issue then the printing now. But I have dialed in the filament too best I can it is thin, even and ridge free. anything below .78 though and I get holes in the wall. But to your point: measuring with a my bad calipers and at inch not metric my tolerance stacking is high.

IE: I should be around 0.16-0.165" wall at .42 mm but reading 0.15 or 0.17 could have me off from a 0.7 to a 0.83 flowrate!!!!

Better readings.

SD2 owner- Surestepr, filament holder,QUBD servo and heaters, glass bed
Print for fun and for parts for my sports cars
current car is 88 IROC