1 Topic by arhodiewithsoul

  • arhodiewithsoul
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2018-10-12
  • Posts: 23

Topic: Things about XYZ printers that burn my biscuit!

1.a. Proprietary filaments - I understand that they are trying to ensure print quality. Epson does the same with their printers, but when it comes to printing, Epson displays a notification telling you the cartridges are not genuine (OEM/Proprietary), that's it. At least allow us the option to use our own filament through an 'Advanced' setting on the device in a similar way. ...or sell a programmable EEPROM kit!
1.b. Proprietary filaments - how many cartridges do XYZ sell, but only certain printers can use certain filaments? So even if you upgrade your hotend and buy an original Cartridge from XYZ, the firmware still prevents you from using a filament not officially recognised for your printer? As above, this frustration can be overcome with an advanced menu option.

2.a. XYZware - for the most part the software is fine. For the most part, I prefer using Cura on my other printers. As a middle ground, being able to specify my own Slicer even if I 'have' to use proprietary XYZware to print would be a huge step forward.
2.b. XYZware - get realistic about the support material actually needed!!!

3. Calibration of X and Y axis - I know I lose about 1.5mm over the length and width of the bed. Plus, the printer is only really capable of printing ABS without modification, so I lose some to shrinkage too. This means I have to guess the scaling of large parts. For a supposedly calibrated printer? Here's a suggestion: Why not allow users an advanced option through the Settings menu on the device where motor steps can be adjusted? ...and similarly, a 'Restore Defaults' button to push the firmware back to factory settings?

4. The hotend - see no 1.b.

For the most part, I still think they're pretty good machines with the potential to be superb. In theory, I'm not overly bothered by the proprietary universe - Apple does the same with their products, the difference being the coherence and user experience of the product. XYZ, in this regard, have done a hatchet job.

With the advent of the 'Pro' range, you would have thought that they had learnt from their previous customer feedback and actively encouraged the development of a new XYZ community to support their new models. They could implement the software/firmware changes throughout their legacy models as 'updates' and offer existing owners the ability to purchase 'upgraded' or 'drop in' hardware through the online store. This is normal behaviour in other industries.

The members of Soliforum, Voltivo and Thingiverse have actively and consistently sought to improve upon the XYZ products, but the manufacturer appears disinterested and disengaged from their customers. This leads to a lack of repeat sales, a lack of consumer confidence and in the end, no encouragement for new business. A very poor business model.

Whilst I am still enthusiastic about 3D printing and the potential of my 1.1 Plus, I will not be buying anything XYZ ever again. I am happy to try to develop solutions for my problems, but I cannot in good conscience recommend or encourage anyone to spend their hard earned money on these products.

Overall, I think they're missing a trick and turning their back on the people who built their business.

2 Reply by arhodiewithsoul

  • arhodiewithsoul
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2018-10-12
  • Posts: 23

Re: Things about XYZ printers that burn my biscuit!

I should also append the above by saying, every point I stated, I have previously raised with XYZ customer support.

3 Reply by Grendel

  • Grendel
  • Grendel
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Canterbury, Kent, UK
  • Registered: 2017-03-03
  • Posts: 108

Re: Things about XYZ printers that burn my biscuit!

my only real beef with the XYZ is that after the last XYZware software upgrade I get a message telling me that it will no longer print and to upgrade to the XYZ maker software - but that option isnt a download for my machine, plus it just gets on and prints as normal, it does worry me that they will just stop supporting the older machines that are still functioning perfectly well.
(I also not that while XYZware runs on my laptop the drawing software wont as it tells me my display driver is not compatible - Also note that I run full autoCAD and Bentley Microstation CAD packages on this machine without similar messages, and they work. if full blown CAD software doesnt mind my display drivers, why should some cheap 3d package baulk at it.

4 Reply by Grendel

  • Grendel
  • Grendel
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Canterbury, Kent, UK
  • Registered: 2017-03-03
  • Posts: 108

Re: Things about XYZ printers that burn my biscuit!

well I finally found and uploaded the new software, the only problem - the first test print done via the XYZ print stopped after 48 minutes (of a 4 hour print), necessitating turning the printer off to unfreeze it. whether that was coincidence or a problem with the software I will find out when I use the older version to try printing it when I get home from work tonight.

5 Reply by arhodiewithsoul

  • arhodiewithsoul
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2018-10-12
  • Posts: 23

Re: Things about XYZ printers that burn my biscuit!

...I had a print last week that had full support structure for a near vertical surface... ? I hadn't unticked the 'Support' option, I didn't for a second think that it would 'Support' fresh air.

I should have taken a photo. What a waste of filament and another lesson learnt.

6 Reply by Tin Falcon

  • Tin Falcon
  • Tin Falcon
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: New Jersey, USA
  • Registered: 2014-08-01
  • Posts: 2,424

Re: Things about XYZ printers that burn my biscuit!

The davinci IMHO is an interesting animal. The company has marketing down pat.  And they do a decent job of manufacturing.

Customer service is non existent. and engineering is a bit questionable. The company has a poor rep  but yet they continue to sell product. They are clueless as to the meaning of open source (if you do not believe me watch Tom Sanladerer you tube interview on the subject)The bushiness plan they have it is hard to see them staying in business.

That said they do make a value priced printer that they market very well. And with the right stuff like a few hundred dollars and a few hours work they do become reliable printers.

As far as propitiatory or chipped filament there are actually  advantages as the ideal temp and feed rate compensation can be programmed on the chip. But no one like being locked into a couple of choices of filament.

Soliddoodle 4 stock w glass bed------Folger Tech Prusa 2020 upgraded to and titan /aero extruder mirror bed
FT5 with titan/ E3D Aero------MP mini select w glass bed
MP Utimate maker pro-W bondtech extruder
Marlin/Repetier Host/ Slic3r and Cura

7 Reply by yizhou.he

  • yizhou.he
  • yizhou.he
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Boston, MA
  • Registered: 2017-07-05
  • Posts: 1,322

Re: Things about XYZ printers that burn my biscuit!

I hate to say this, but evolution does not always go the way people expect them to go. You may wondering why human beings did not evolve wings, but the cost of be able to fly is you have to reduce body weight and birds with smaller brain flues better.

The goal of successful company is not to make the best product, but to make as much money as possible with reasonably good enough product. And printrbot, New Matter, Type A Machines closed their door. XYZprinting, sindoh, 3dsystems, Dremel still thriving.

I'm reasonable confident if xyzprinting go opensource, their chip will get hacked lot faster.

Not that I work for xyzprinting, but as biomedical scientist, I don't see xyzprinting close their door in the near future, evolutionary speaking.

(Da Vinci 1.0, Jr. 1.0 RAMPS, miniMaker) X4, (Creality CR-10S, CR-10 mini, Ender-3) X4, Anycubic MEGA X4, Anycubic Chrion X1, ADMILAB Gantry X2 (MonoPrice Maker Select V2, Plus, Ultimate)X4--Select mini X1, Anycubic photon X4, Wanhao duplicate D7 X1.
iNSTONE Inventor Pro X2, CTC Dual X2, ANET-A8, Hictop 3DP-11, Solidoodle Press, FLSUN I3 2017X1

8 Reply by carl_m1968

  • carl_m1968
  • carl_m1968
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Far North almost not Dallas
  • Registered: 2014-10-17
  • Posts: 6,512

Re: Things about XYZ printers that burn my biscuit!

If they went open source there would be no need to hack.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

9 Reply by Tin Falcon

  • Tin Falcon
  • Tin Falcon
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: New Jersey, USA
  • Registered: 2014-08-01
  • Posts: 2,424

Re: Things about XYZ printers that burn my biscuit!

They would first need to learn the true meaning of open source. They seem to have no clue !!!

Soliddoodle 4 stock w glass bed------Folger Tech Prusa 2020 upgraded to and titan /aero extruder mirror bed
FT5 with titan/ E3D Aero------MP mini select w glass bed
MP Utimate maker pro-W bondtech extruder
Marlin/Repetier Host/ Slic3r and Cura

10 Reply by Tin Falcon

  • Tin Falcon
  • Tin Falcon
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: New Jersey, USA
  • Registered: 2014-08-01
  • Posts: 2,424

Re: Things about XYZ printers that burn my biscuit!

Printerbot was building a top quality machine at a  bottom end price you are correct not sustainable.

Soliddoodle 4 stock w glass bed------Folger Tech Prusa 2020 upgraded to and titan /aero extruder mirror bed
FT5 with titan/ E3D Aero------MP mini select w glass bed
MP Utimate maker pro-W bondtech extruder
Marlin/Repetier Host/ Slic3r and Cura

11 Reply by yizhou.he

  • yizhou.he
  • yizhou.he
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Boston, MA
  • Registered: 2017-07-05
  • Posts: 1,322

Re: Things about XYZ printers that burn my biscuit!

quick question, does go opensource make more money?

(Da Vinci 1.0, Jr. 1.0 RAMPS, miniMaker) X4, (Creality CR-10S, CR-10 mini, Ender-3) X4, Anycubic MEGA X4, Anycubic Chrion X1, ADMILAB Gantry X2 (MonoPrice Maker Select V2, Plus, Ultimate)X4--Select mini X1, Anycubic photon X4, Wanhao duplicate D7 X1.
iNSTONE Inventor Pro X2, CTC Dual X2, ANET-A8, Hictop 3DP-11, Solidoodle Press, FLSUN I3 2017X1

12 Reply by carl_m1968

  • carl_m1968
  • carl_m1968
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Far North almost not Dallas
  • Registered: 2014-10-17
  • Posts: 6,512

Re: Things about XYZ printers that burn my biscuit!

yizhou.he wrote:

quick question, does go opensource make more money?


Open source means you can use any brand filament, any slicer, any host, and Firmware depending on the board of course.

If buyers where educated then yes open source would make more money. But the problem is that XYZ as well as a few other companies are preying on the noobs that have just seen 3d printing at a show or school and think they must get into it but with their limited knowledge they by what looks like the easiest and most user friendly paper printer experience.

Not doing asny home work they think a 3d printer especially a nicely colored one with an enclosure and cartridge is just as simple plug and play as a paper printer is, and it is these buyers that XYZ and the others hope to make money on. They know they will get frustrated and drop the printer in a lake or sell it on ebay really cheap but XYZ has already got their money and that is why XYZ is also not worried about end user support.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

13 Reply by Tin Falcon (edited by Tin Falcon 2018-11-11 02:08:55)

  • Tin Falcon
  • Tin Falcon
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: New Jersey, USA
  • Registered: 2014-08-01
  • Posts: 2,424

Re: Things about XYZ printers that burn my biscuit!

quick question, does go opensource make more money?


That is a good question that i have no definitive answer for.
That said several of the worlds most poplar printers are open source.

Joseph Prusa, Ultimaker, bcn sigma and lulzbot to name a few.
OS is not about making money it is about community involvement. It is about sharing ideas. When a company shares the source code of firmware or the cad files of a piece of hardware the community can improve on it and share it back to the company then someone else come along with another improvement. It saves on R&D costs as the community helps with that.
It also helps with maintenance and service issues as the BOM are often published.
There are a lot of levels of OS lulzbot publishes daily updates from there R &D dept. Ultimaker waits a year to settle on things and work out bugs and allow for profits to roll in before publishing there latest and greatest. also a true OS company will use OS tools that allow the public true access to the information.
Also OS does not cover trademarks Ie there are lots of arduino clones but folks can not clone one and sell as genuine.

Open source means you can use any brand filament, any slicer, any host, and Firmware depending on the board of course.

IMHO OS is a bit deeper than that. It  means the source code is published and available. One can open the source code make changes to it and compile it and reload it. also information to complete repairs like a BOM (Bill of materials.  and or illustrated parts breakdown (IPB)Like i said many  true OS companies publish the cad files for hardware as well as the firmware source code.
In the old days an ibm computer came in 3 cartons one for the cpu one for the monitor  and one for the documentation  full board schematics were included.

Another concept that is not often mentioned here (likely because many printers are open source) is the right to repair.

hope this helps to clarify.

Soliddoodle 4 stock w glass bed------Folger Tech Prusa 2020 upgraded to and titan /aero extruder mirror bed
FT5 with titan/ E3D Aero------MP mini select w glass bed
MP Utimate maker pro-W bondtech extruder
Marlin/Repetier Host/ Slic3r and Cura

14 Reply by yizhou.he (edited by yizhou.he 2018-11-11 17:24:18)

  • yizhou.he
  • yizhou.he
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Boston, MA
  • Registered: 2017-07-05
  • Posts: 1,322

Re: Things about XYZ printers that burn my biscuit!

For real tinkers, yes, opensource is good. But there is way more newbies around than real tinkers, and their major concern is often how to level the bed or find best nozzle temperature for the filament they have. opensource or not may not make difference to them.

For companies, go opensource means your effort in development will become public knowledge in relative short amount of time. Close source developer can learn from opensource but not the other way. It is relatively difficult to convert your creativity into long term competition advantage for companies decide to go opensource.

Microsoft go from close source toward opensource, and Apple build their base on opensource and closed it. And windows become problematic while macos/ios become more popular.

I'm big fan of opensource, but evolution does not favorite altruism.

(Da Vinci 1.0, Jr. 1.0 RAMPS, miniMaker) X4, (Creality CR-10S, CR-10 mini, Ender-3) X4, Anycubic MEGA X4, Anycubic Chrion X1, ADMILAB Gantry X2 (MonoPrice Maker Select V2, Plus, Ultimate)X4--Select mini X1, Anycubic photon X4, Wanhao duplicate D7 X1.
iNSTONE Inventor Pro X2, CTC Dual X2, ANET-A8, Hictop 3DP-11, Solidoodle Press, FLSUN I3 2017X1

15 Reply by arhodiewithsoul

  • arhodiewithsoul
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2018-10-12
  • Posts: 23

Re: Things about XYZ printers that burn my biscuit!

All true and valid comments. When I bought my model, I had been previously hoodwinked by a company who took my money and ran. Literally. I wanted a 'Plug and Play' system similar to the printers I had access to at work and in my naivety, I believed that XYZ offered this.

The Apple argument is tricky to use because of how heavily they develop and support their products. For the most part, their focus as a company is on manufacturing products with closed ecosystems that deliver a superior customer experience. Their business model is based on this ecosystem and consumer buy into the experience.

The difference with XYZ is that they have since adapted their business model to open aspects of the product (filament, slicer) whilst still producing the same and similar hardware, but with implemented changes in a seemingly haphazard way. The most recent update of XYZware auto upgraded some products to XYZmaker suite and converted the Jr 1.0A to be recognised as Jr 1.0A Pro. When I approached them to politely ask whether these actions would indicate a willingness to apply the 'Pro' updates to the 1.1 and 2.1 Plus models, the first response told me it was not feasible for them to do, due to 'Firmware and Hardware' limitations. The unexpected second response effectively told me that my printer was out of warranty and if I wanted those features, I should buy a newer printer.

My point is that their approach is not coherent and does not appear to listen to or learn from the community, who have actively shown a willingness to support them.

Disappointed as I am, I have to say that every issue I have raised with EU and US customer service has been acknowledged and replied to, whether I agreed with their response or not, they still accepted my comments.

Opensource does not mean giving away your competitive edge for free, rather it changes the way a company builds their business model. Google. Android. Chrome. Same parent company and in competition with each other, for example; and I would argue that evolution is THE largest opensource project - adapt and survive.

16 Reply by bigrednurse

  • bigrednurse
  • Newbie
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2015-01-02
  • Posts: 8

Re: Things about XYZ printers that burn my biscuit!

What really burns me about xyz is that they do not uphold the warranty.  Mine arrived with a broken door.  Could not get a replacement from them so I had to repair it.  I got a clogged nozzel on r extruder.  Had to remove extruder to get filament out and lost spring putting it back together.  They would not even send a new spring.  Shorted out board cleaning off extruder with the supplied brass brush.  They would not repair board or sell me a new one.  I have operated it ever since as a single extruder machine.   So I have ordered a makerbot and will be replace the motherboard with a mega + ramps setup.  .. ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY FROM XYZ.

17 Reply by Tin Falcon

  • Tin Falcon
  • Tin Falcon
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: New Jersey, USA
  • Registered: 2014-08-01
  • Posts: 2,424

Re: Things about XYZ printers that burn my biscuit!

Something I do not understand is that just about any list one looks at for top 10 best 3d printers is one or another davinci is on the list.
the ultimaker, the maker bot the form 2 the lulsbot , the Dremel are also on these lists. IMHO most deserve to be on these lists.


IMHO the monoprice ultimate maker printer open box deal is the least talked about printer on the market, AKA the best kept secret.
and I am not endorsing this one but ido like the one I have.

Soliddoodle 4 stock w glass bed------Folger Tech Prusa 2020 upgraded to and titan /aero extruder mirror bed
FT5 with titan/ E3D Aero------MP mini select w glass bed
MP Utimate maker pro-W bondtech extruder
Marlin/Repetier Host/ Slic3r and Cura

18 Reply by culbear

  • culbear
  • Newbie
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2019-01-09
  • Posts: 3

Re: Things about XYZ printers that burn my biscuit!

I could not agree with you more. I for some reason own two xyz printers(one was free), but i bought a da vinci pro 3-in-1, and cannot for the life of me understand why I did that.  For all the reasons you mentioned I cant stand xyz, I think I may have bought it thinking I would get a solid product, boy was I wrong. I bought it about a year ago maybe. Havent been able to use it alll that much cause its always breaking down somehow. I made the best decision in my life(in regards to 3d printing), and purchased an original prusa i3 mk3s, and jebus, my mind is still blown by what this thing does. Mind you I have a CR-10S S5 and ENDER 3 as well, both of which are getting an overhaul to try and mimic what the mk3s does. btw im in no way affiliated with them. My first 4 prints on the machine were with, PLA, then ABS, then TPU(Flex), then carbon fiber, and then petg.  All printed flawlessly without any modifcations besides selecting the default profile for the type of filament. And the fact its all open source and you can literally print your own parts if something breaks or if you just want a different color.   I know it sounds like Im selling the printer, I'm not, it did however rejuvenate the fire inside me for 3d printing, I've literally had the printer printing non-stop since I got it last month.   Ive had more successful prints in the past month alone on the mk3s than I've had on my other 4 printers over the last year combined.

that is all smile

19 Reply by tonyno

  • tonyno
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2014-12-23
  • Posts: 135

Re: Things about XYZ printers that burn my biscuit!

I must be one of the lucky ones. I bought my 1.0A at the end of 2014 and have not had any real issues. Knock on wood... I also finally got around to making a cart resetter and have been using normal filament for a bit now.