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Topic: Another problem with the new upgrade Slic3r?

Got a new roll of ABS.  Measured like always, came up with ~1.70.  Input that figure and set the multiplier to 1.0.  Print test box, came out .29 .29 .29 .28.  Upped the multiplier a number of times, print test box each time and am now at 1.25.  Brought the diameter measurement up 1 at a time til I am now at 1.75.  Am still getting .34 .34 .35 .35.  It seems the machine doesn't want to respond to the slicer commands.  Other filaments have retained their measurements and print fine, both PLA & ABS.
Tomorrow I guess I'll look for older versions of both RH and Slic3r. 

Suggestions...

Thanx
Ski

Ender 3 Pro

2 (edited by carl_m1968 2018-06-13 12:14:31)

Re: Another problem with the new upgrade Slic3r?

You should never have to change your multiplier. To me the multiplier is a fixed number. The issue is in your steps per mm not being calibrated correctly for your extruder.

Yes you need to calibrate or at the very least confirm steps per mm on each spool change. Each spool is different some are harder, some are softer. By being harder the teeth on your feed wheel don't slip as much and thus pushes more filament while softer filament allows the teeth to slip and feeds less filament. The other issue of course as we know is diameter and it has the same effect as hardness. A smaller diameter is gripped less and thus allows slipping and less fed filament. Like a thicker diameter will allow more grip and less slipping which equates to more filament fed. It seems you just got lucky till now and most of your spools have been similar in hardness and diameter.

Until someone creates a machine that can measure the hardness of each spool and calibrate the steps per mm based on this , calibrating the steps per mm for each spool will be a required step. The only way I could see getting around this would be if you could find a supplier that would guarantee as specific hardness and of course that would come at a premium price as well.

To calibrate the steps per mm on the extruder you mark the filament at 100 mm from the extruder input. You then once the machine is a t full temp send a command to feed 100 mm of filament. If your steps per mm or correct your mark will be right at the input of the extruder. If they are off then it will still be outside or inside the extruder.

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Re: Another problem with the new upgrade Slic3r?

also make sure you have the correct nozzle size and filament diameter set in the software.. seems there are a couple of places that shows up...

if i recall correctly - the defaults are a 0.5 nozzle and 3mm filament

SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
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4 (edited by Ski52 2018-06-13 13:38:16)

Re: Another problem with the new upgrade Slic3r?

Carl - I don't know what printer you use, but the SD2 I use doesn't require E-Step calibration with every spool.  It's a mechanical setting that forces the stepper motor to turn X amount of times to introduce 100mm of filament into the extruder, regardless of the temp, or the output at the extruder, and in my view has nothing to do with filament brand, softness or size, that's why the extruder is spring loaded - to compensate for filament size.  That would be somewhat of a PIA to reset that figure with every roll of filament.  For the sake of argument, I just checked my 100mm setting, and it is smack on - hasn't changed since it was set probably 2 - 2 1/2 years ago with the last major upgrade. 
I currently have some 14 spools of filament, some ABS some PLA.  All the multipliers are different, they have to be.   Example: Say I have a roll that prints a test box wall @ .42, the recommended thickness.  The settings for that roll are ideal: dia 1.75 multi 1.0.  I actually have a roll that is 1.702.  In order to get .42 at the test box wall the multiplier is set to .55.  Another I've got is 1.74 dia and .94 multi., 1.725 -.58, 1.75 - .85, etc.  They are all different.   
I don't reset the E-Step setting.  Only if I have changed something on the extruder . 
I still have the problem of not being able to get the appropriate wall thickness with this spool.  As I said earlier, I going to back up to an older Slic3r version and see if that works.

Ender 3 Pro

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Re: Another problem with the new upgrade Slic3r?

carl_m1968 wrote:

You should never have to change your multiplier. To me the multiplier is a fixed number. The issue is in your steps per mm not being calibrated correctly for your extruder.

Yes you need to calibrate or at the very least confirm steps per mm on each spool change. Each spool is different some are harder, some are softer. By being harder the teeth on your feed wheel don't slip as much and thus pushes more filament while softer filament allows the teeth to slip and feeds less filament. The other issue of course as we know is diameter and it has the same effect as hardness. A smaller diameter is gripped less and thus allows slipping and less fed filament. Like a thicker diameter will allow more grip and less slipping which equates to more filament fed. It seems you just got lucky till now and most of your spools have been similar in hardness and diameter.

Until someone creates a machine that can measure the hardness of each spool and calibrate the steps per mm based on this , calibrating the steps per mm for each spool will be a required step. The only way I could see getting around this would be if you could find a supplier that would guarantee as specific hardness and of course that would come at a premium price as well.

Sorry, but NO. Why would you do such a thing? Why make more work for yourself when it is not necessary?
Steps per mm are the "fixed" number once it is correctly calibrated.

changing the multiplier is the most efficient/correct way to compensate for minor differences in materials.

I currently have 59 different filament profiles set up in Slic3r (not counting the default) - I have calibrated the steps/mm exactly ONCE on each of my printers - everything else is done in the filament profile - and yes, I get excellent print results out of each and every profile, on any one of my 5 machines (all of which are also profiled in Slic3r).

those 59 filament profiles consist of:
39 ABS profiles - each a different manufacturer and color (yes, I have multiples of some colors, but each is a different manufacturer, thus a different profile)
12 PLA profiles
4 TPU profiles
2 Nylon profiles
1 ASA profile
1 PETG profile
(can you tell what I use the most?)

It is a simple matter of a few minutes to calibrate a new spool of filament & create a profile for it. Then it is simply a matter of selecting the correct profile for printing with it. I do not need to waste my time re-calibrating the steps/mm every time I want to change colors/materials.

I also have multiple print profiles set up in Slic3r.. different layer heights & various other settings - one of which is very specific to one customer's specific product that has repeat orders, often in different colors.
When he orders that item, I select that print profile, select the material/color I am printing it in, load the file, slice it and print it. No wasted time, no screwing around with steps/mm calibrations, the thing that takes the longest is waiting for the bed to heat up, which is not that long with the PrintIt Hale Heat-bed.

The only time one should need to re-calibrate the extruder steps/mm is if one is making physical changes to the extruder assembly itself. New hobbed gear, new nozzle size, etc..

SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
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Re: Another problem with the new upgrade Slic3r?

Heartless, we posted at the same time, and said essentially the same thing.  I will go through the Slic3r upgrade and look for anything that is different.  I have 2 other machines to compare it to.  As I said - I physically changed nothing, just the upgrade, and now I've had 2 issues.  So with an old machine, maybe I should quit upgrading to the 'latest'. 
Will be back when I get to the bottom of it all...

Ender 3 Pro

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Re: Another problem with the new upgrade Slic3r?

yeah, I saw that - LOL

go through everything and make sure the nozzle & filament diameters are set correctly everywhere.. that is always a fun one..

I personally use RH v1.0.6, but have it pointed to Slic3r v1.2.9 (the latest "stable" release)

I dont care for the graphical changes that were made to RH in the newer versions - and I had a major issue with one of the updates - was getting constant time out errors - went back to 1.0.6 and have never had a problem

SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
Printit Industries Beta Tester - Horizon H1

8

Re: Another problem with the new upgrade Slic3r?

I D/L Slic3r 1.2.9, but RH dosen't seem to offer the older versions, or at least it looked that way at 115 last nite.  Will go look again.

Ender 3 Pro

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Re: Another problem with the new upgrade Slic3r?

http://www.geeetech.com/wiki/index.php/Repetier-Host

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Re: Another problem with the new upgrade Slic3r?

Ski52 wrote:

I D/L Slic3r 1.2.9, but RH dosen't seem to offer the older versions, or at least it looked that way at 115 last nite.  Will go look again.


yeah, they seem to have taken down the links the older versions that one used to be able to get directly from them.. v2.0.5 is the oldest they currently have available

I have no idea how "safe" the link is shared by yizhou, but it does list v1.0.6

or, if you pm me an email address, I can give you a copy of my installer file - guaranteed free of viruses, spyware and other such nonsense.

SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
Printit Industries Beta Tester - Horizon H1

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Re: Another problem with the new upgrade Slic3r?

Heartless - thank you! I have a real problem with geetech... I ordered a heat plate drilled for ?possible SD. (see the post) It's been almost 6 weeks and no response - it's only 15.00, so I can take the loss.  I'd be glad to PM you with my email, if I can figure out how...
Give me a few...

Ender 3 Pro

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Re: Another problem with the new upgrade Slic3r?

Ski52 - might be morning, or possibly even tomorrow evening, before I can actually get you that file.. living in the boonies has it's drawbacks - slow internet is one of them. =P
But I will make it happen.

SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
Printit Industries Beta Tester - Horizon H1

13

Re: Another problem with the new upgrade Slic3r?

email has been sent.. smile

SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
Printit Industries Beta Tester - Horizon H1

14 (edited by Ski52 2018-06-14 20:40:01)

Re: Another problem with the new upgrade Slic3r?

Heartless - Thank you!  Got the link. d/l it, installed it and Slic3r 1.2.9 and ran it all.  Same filament, same settings, same print box.  First run gave an average of .75 - reset the multiplier to .56 and the final run just now was .41, .43, .43, .42 - that's close enough for me!  Musta got a corrupt copy of either the new RH or the slicer, or my machine is just too old for the new stuff.  I'll stay where I'm at.
Thanx again
Ski

Ender 3 Pro

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Re: Another problem with the new upgrade Slic3r?

glad it is working out for you Ski. smile

and happy to help.

SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
Printit Industries Beta Tester - Horizon H1