1 Topic by Antron007

  • Antron007
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2014-01-27
  • Posts: 109

Topic: Thought on belt tension.

Hey gang,
I've been doing a lot of reading and research trouble shooting my printer (http://www.soliforum.com/topic/6314/dia … firmation/) and during said research I saw a reference to "a slight twang". And that made me think, my guitars twang. So I'm wondering if one could in fact take an instrument/chromatic tuner and pluck their belts to find out what note/pitch/frequency they produce.

I think it would be awesome if someone with a properly tuned/calibrated sd2 could find the frequencies of the "right amount of twang" and share that info then, in theory, one could adjust their belt tension just like tuning a guitar.  I think that would make belt calibration super easy. It could at least maybe get a good general starting point that could be fine tuned on a user per user basis. You might need to use a bass guitar tuner. Not sure what octave that "twang" would be at.

I'm not confident in my set up nor do I have and acoustic tuner (I'll have to get a cheap one this weekend) so I can't try it and if I could I wouldn't trust my numbers, hence all the research.

Of coarse the concept applies to all Solidoodle models. I just use the SD2 because it's what I have and therefore of most concern to me. The 3 and 4 would probably have different notes being bigger.

Just a little out of the box thinking. Any input?

2 Reply by AZERATE (edited by AZERATE 2014-05-02 03:17:33)

  • AZERATE
  • AZERATE
  • PRINTiT
  • Offline
  • From: Chicago
  • Registered: 2013-11-28
  • Posts: 2,077

Re: Thought on belt tension.

That is a very intriguing thought, but I don't think it would work because guitars require string vibration to transmit sound long enough to activate any sort of tuner...even an IntelliTouch which is a vibration-based tuner mounted on the headstock. The belts are rubber...which is naturally dampening and restricts the needed vibrations.

It is a great idea, revolutionary even, to adjust belt through vibration. But the lowest form of tuner needed would be a strobe tuner which costs $200 for a decent one. I like this idea very much. And I would like to see an implication...but the variance of steel/nylon/cat gut string resonating through wood/graphite/acrylic would be much different from rubber through aluminum/ABS/teflon, etc.
I do not mean to be a buzzkill in the slightest...just trying to help in, well, any way I can. smile

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!

3 Reply by wardjr

  • wardjr
  • wardjr
  • Moderator
  • Offline
  • From: Minnesota
  • Registered: 2013-06-10
  • Posts: 5,623

Re: Thought on belt tension.

I've been adjusting my belt tensions by ear since the beginning. No tuner needed and a tuner wouldn't work anyway as the frequency changes dependent upon the position of the carriage.  By ear though you can at least balance the two sides.  Particular frequency doesn't matter as long as they are the same.  I also would like to note that this has been covered several times in other posts.  Glad to see others thinking through the process though.  It's how we all learn and discover new and better ways of doing things.  Keep up the good work maybe the next idea will be a game changer for all of us. smile

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

wardjr's Website

4 Reply by Antron007 (edited by Antron007 2014-05-02 04:35:53)

  • Antron007
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2014-01-27
  • Posts: 109

Re: Thought on belt tension.

@AZERATE - You're not buzzkilling. It was just an idea and I wondered if it would be doable. I fully expected it to get shot full of holes. Thanks for all of the info and compliments.

@wardjr - Thank you as well. I've had/having a hell of a time with the y belts which has led to my looking for alternative ways to do it sad It seems that I can get my side on my left just right to where the pulley would stay centered on its own when I moved the carriage. Then I would get the right side to perform the same but then, the tensions were vastly different and my prints got worse than what they were which caused me to mess with them in the first place.

I have a thread about what I think it may be here.
http://www.soliforum.com/post/55497/#p55497

I finally got them to be what I believe to be good now but I have doubts. I had to tilt the belt at the tension screw a little to knock out the wobble of the pulleys on the back y rod but, I'm fairly confident my tension is good and balanced.  Just being inexperienced, I have doubts. Once I've done it a few times I'll be more confident. It's just hard to tell because I'm not even sure the Y belts are my problem.

Back to the drawing board. Thanks again guys.

5 Reply by wardjr (edited by wardjr 2014-05-02 04:48:47)

  • wardjr
  • wardjr
  • Moderator
  • Offline
  • From: Minnesota
  • Registered: 2013-06-10
  • Posts: 5,623

Re: Thought on belt tension.

I like to tension those belts with the rear shaft set screw on the right loose.  Then slide the whole thing back and forth stopping in the middle.  Try to stop with that right side in a neutral position (not bound).  Then adjust the belt tension by ear (quite room) make sure they are snug but not so tight that they are pulling the front pulleys out of alignment. Once the belts are tensioned equally repeat sliding it back and forth stopping in the same neutral/balanced position.  Then tighten the right rear set screw.  Once this is done you should be able to slide it for and aft regardless of what side you push on without any binding.  I think a lot of the problems come from deformation of the rear y-axis drive rod.  This can be fixed by adding bearings and a pillow block.

Edit:  do the above with the y-axis drive belt removed from the motor
Hope this helps.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

wardjr's Website

6 Reply by ggunners

  • ggunners
  • ggunners
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Chantilly, VA USA
  • Registered: 2013-12-03
  • Posts: 170

Re: Thought on belt tension.

FYI, most cell phones have a decent microphone. There's an app for that. On Android, how about Frequency Meter Pro for a mere $3.36 USD.

SD2 Expert stock, ABS fume fan,
XYZ DaVinci 1.0 stock ABS, Simplify3D
QUBD Two-Up PLA, new 3D printed X gantry, Y idler, flex z coupler, extruder mount, E3D Lite

7 Reply by wardjr

  • wardjr
  • wardjr
  • Moderator
  • Offline
  • From: Minnesota
  • Registered: 2013-06-10
  • Posts: 5,623

Re: Thought on belt tension.

ggunners wrote:

FYI, most cell phones have a decent microphone. There's an app for that. On Android, how about Frequency Meter Pro for a mere $3.36 USD.

You should try it out and let us know how it goes wink

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

wardjr's Website

8 Reply by ggunners (edited by ggunners 2014-05-02 14:40:00)

  • ggunners
  • ggunners
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Chantilly, VA USA
  • Registered: 2013-12-03
  • Posts: 170

Re: Thought on belt tension.

I'm game, can anybody think of a way to attach a light-weight resonator to the belt?

SD2 Expert stock, ABS fume fan,
XYZ DaVinci 1.0 stock ABS, Simplify3D
QUBD Two-Up PLA, new 3D printed X gantry, Y idler, flex z coupler, extruder mount, E3D Lite

9 Reply by accusedmonk

  • accusedmonk
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2013-10-22
  • Posts: 253

Re: Thought on belt tension.

You could just treat it like a guitar string. Put a small metal clip on the belt, then take an electric guitar pickup and mount it  nearby.  Plug it in to a tuner and give her a flick.  In theory that would probably give better results than trying to get a microphone to pick up the vibrations.

Bowden SD3, Rumba, E3D hotend, Mk5 with RtRyder changes, Direct drive Y axis and bearings, GT2 pulleys and braided fishing line, Lawsy linear bearing conversion, M3 Z screw.

10 Reply by ggunners

  • ggunners
  • ggunners
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Chantilly, VA USA
  • Registered: 2013-12-03
  • Posts: 170

Re: Thought on belt tension.

Cheapest guitar pickup I found was an acoustic hole pickup for $50. Unless I have one lying around, it's getting pricey pretty fast.

SD2 Expert stock, ABS fume fan,
XYZ DaVinci 1.0 stock ABS, Simplify3D
QUBD Two-Up PLA, new 3D printed X gantry, Y idler, flex z coupler, extruder mount, E3D Lite

11 Reply by AZERATE

  • AZERATE
  • AZERATE
  • PRINTiT
  • Offline
  • From: Chicago
  • Registered: 2013-11-28
  • Posts: 2,077

Re: Thought on belt tension.

I have several active and passive humbuckers lying around collecting dust.
PM me if you would like one. I'm pretty sure I have two 6 string passives, one or two passive 7 string, and two active 8 string.
The 8 string pickup would probably be best since it covers a wider range.

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!

12 Reply by Antron007

  • Antron007
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2014-01-27
  • Posts: 109

Re: Thought on belt tension.

wardjr wrote:

I like to tension those belts with the rear shaft set screw on the right loose.  Then slide the whole thing back and forth stopping in the middle.  Try to stop with that right side in a neutral position (not bound).  Then adjust the belt tension by ear (quite room) make sure they are snug but not so tight that they are pulling the front pulleys out of alignment. Once the belts are tensioned equally repeat sliding it back and forth stopping in the same neutral/balanced position.  Then tighten the right rear set screw.  Once this is done you should be able to slide it for and aft regardless of what side you push on without any binding.  I think a lot of the problems come from deformation of the rear y-axis drive rod.  This can be fixed by adding bearings and a pillow block.

Edit:  do the above with the y-axis drive belt removed from the motor
Hope this helps.

Thanks for the pointers. I'll try that out. I've seen the pillow block and thought about adding that. When you say add bearings, could you be a little more specific? I've seen several mentions of "adding bearings" but they all seem to be different bearings each time.

I'm aware you can make a new Y carriage that takes bearings and replaces the bushings currently being used. I also saw mention of adding bearings to that Y bar we have been talking about on the outer ends, sort of in the case. I also see that mod is a little older and I appear to already have bearings there.

13 Reply by coleke

  • coleke
  • coleke
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2012-08-07
  • Posts: 166

Re: Thought on belt tension.

I know this is way, way too late of a post, but at work we use belt frequency meters (for larger belts). Basically it's a handheld device that has an led and a photo transistor. By rapping on the belt by hand or with a small hammer, it will move at a fixed frequency and the meter measures this by the light reflecting into the photo transistor when the belt is at its peak. This one is way overkill price wise: BTM-400Plus Belt Tension Meter / Trummeter, Range 3 - 800 Hz https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0054J799M/re … xb4C938FY, but it should be fairly easy to arduino a simpler one together. Or borrow from the shop.

Grand Rapids, Michigan
SD2 with Sanguinololu board, glass bed mod, E3d_v5 bowden version hotend (currently direct drive), Lawsy Mk5 jigsaw replacement, octopi printserver, drv8825(tiny troubles)