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Topic: Mold it, print it or farm it out? Mass producing your parts.

Many times a 3D printer can make things you just can't mold. A laser sintering printer can even do it without support structures.

If you are making something you plan to mass produce in quantities of, say, over 1500 pieces it may make economic sense to invest in a mold for injection modeling company like ProtoMold to make them. If your part is quite large you may have to mold it since most 3D printer have a size limitation as to what they can print.

The injection molding company (I like ProtoLabs) will evaluate your part and tell you if it needs any changes to be a candidate for injection molding. For example, the sides need to be slanted outward a degree or so (called "draft"), so the part pops out of the mold okay. You can't have enclosed hollows (like a bubble) inside the part. You can't have chambers that go in then curl around and back, there's just no way to make a two-halved split mold that would do that.

http://www.protolabs.com/injection-molding/ has some excellent educational materials and design evaluation tools that can show if your part can be injection molded.

If molding is not feasible and you just can't redesign your part to be moldable, them you are committed to 3D printing. Then it becomes a question of what makes the most economic sense and the most sense time wise. Do you have time to sit there and crank out part after part day and night on your SD or farm it out to a production shop like Shapeways or Sculpteo?

Shapeways and Sculpteo, for example, are excellent companies. They make large part runs for many major corporations whose names we would all recognize. They can also make onesy-twosey runs. They use high-end machines and usually have various types of machines for additive mfg (like our printers do) or sintering with a laser that melts layers of plastic powder or lasers that solidify layers of liquid resin. There are advantages to each and each has a different cost structure. One thing you can be assured of, good print quality and the ability to crank out lots of parts much easier and quicker than you or I can, albeit for a cost.

Most of the plastic objects we use every day are injection molded. The cost for injection molding is primarily in the molds themselves which they custom make on a CAD machine tool. It can run into tens of thousands of dollars, however your per part cost thereafter is often just pennies or a buck or two. Delivery time can run into weeks. Finished quality is superb.

High End 3D print shops charge pretty much the same per part cost whether you want one or a thousand since there is very little setup or up front cost. They are also much quicker to deliver. I've gotten parts in as little as three days - from France!

http://www.sculpteo.com/en/

http://www.shapeways.com/

There is also another option, Print Hubs. For example, https://www.3dhubs.com a network of regular guys like us that want to do jobs for hire. They join the Print Hub, set up a profile listing their printer(s) type, max size part they can print, lead time and cost factor, based on part volume (size, mass). The customer (you?) uploads their STL and selects the print hub they are interested in (based on distance, printer type if that matters, user reviews and cost. The print hub guy evaluates your part comments and accepts or declines the job. You pay for it and a few days later it comes or you pick it up.

I have used all of these options and find that they all work well. You should evaluate each and run the numbers based on your part quantity, desired quality and turnaround time to make an informed business decision. But, whatever you choose, reflect a minute on living in a world where inventors, entrepreneurs and regular folks have powerful technology at their fingertips that let us compete effectively with the big guys and effect real change.

It's a great time to be alive.

Robox printer, HICTOP (Prusa i3 variant) Model 3DP17 printer, ELEK 2.5W laser engraver, AutoDesk 123D Design, Windows 10

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Re: Mold it, print it or farm it out? Mass producing your parts.

yes I am in same biz and do most of those formats of manufacture but no large/mass production as I am a 1 man band. however I find the 3D hubs very poor usefulness as most "customers" think all they need is to send you a picture and you can wave a wand and turn it into a 3D duplicate in minutes for less than the .99 cent store LMAO. I been on 3Dhubs over 2 years and am number 1 hub in the St Louis MO area with a total of 4 jobs (no income there) other hub sites are much worse at no help and poor customer biz. the public has near zero knowledge of what 3D printing can offer nor how they can use it and what they must supply for it. this is also why many buy a printer then learn it was a bad idea for them and abandon it. thanks to printer makers advertising its simple as using a microwave etc. and Shapeway is high cost non competitive way for designers to try marketing their files. many are still using 3D printers to make and sell cheap widgets on ebay that can be had much cheaper elsewhere. I wont waste my time or material/tools on such trinkets. there is much more to learn for public b4 this changes. 1st they must invest in a test order to get a taste of whats real practical projects and what level of quality to expect from what printers. and learn how to provide files to print. also abide by copyright laws.

Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

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Re: Mold it, print it or farm it out? Mass producing your parts.

also 3D printing was never intended for 'mass production" rather R&D one off unique prints not available or possible elsewhere.

Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

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Re: Mold it, print it or farm it out? Mass producing your parts.

I don't dispute anything you said, n2ri. But once our 3D own printer produces a viable object/product, the question becomes, what's next? There needs to be a near-mass production option to get you through the Kickstarter phase, to get some exposure, media and/or investor interest. My biz model is often to design it, build a successful prototype, show that people will buy it and then sell it, rights, 3D drawings, everything or license it to a bigger company. Production 3D printing can fill that need.

Robox printer, HICTOP (Prusa i3 variant) Model 3DP17 printer, ELEK 2.5W laser engraver, AutoDesk 123D Design, Windows 10

5 (edited by n2ri 2015-11-29 22:30:21)

Re: Mold it, print it or farm it out? Mass producing your parts.

oh, thats easy. same as b4, you create a mold/dye and go that route. or like I tried on 3Dhubs gather lots of 3D printer operators to contract large production runs that way your delivery time per 100 depends on how many printers and how long time is per item is to finish. on 3Dhubs there is 15 printers in my area (not counting those not on 3Dhubs which is why I tried to hold local meets to coordinate the local 3D printing community factory (what they called Hub Mayor) but many hubs listed are no longer active due to lack of support by3Dhubs so far. and several unlisted operators do their own business and not interested. so it seems there is a lag/lull in 3D printing business growth ATM, that needs worked through 1st. I have been trying to get others to meet for brainstorming discussions on this subject for a year and a half (I am disabled on fixed income also) of the guesstimated 150 3D printer owners within 100 mile radius I have managed to meet/talk with only 5 even when arranging a meeting place for a couple dozen and attending a public meeting at library (which is not going to help with this problem). also got printed discount flyers from 3Dhubs last year for students but the biggest local Collage admin is dead set against promoting this tech being offered to their students which I find very strange. lots of 3D printer owner/operators have multiple printers from 2 -24 each and several different types/brands using several materials which makes for a wide range of options for customers to pick from. metal, wood, conductive, flexible and many dif plastics.

Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

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Re: Mold it, print it or farm it out? Mass producing your parts.

I don't dispute anything you said, n2ri. But once our 3D own printer produces a viable object/product, the question becomes, what's next? There needs to be a near-mass production option to get you through the Kickstarter phase, to get some exposure, media and/or investor interest. My biz model is often to design it, build a successful prototype, show that people will buy it and then sell it, rights, 3D drawings, everything or license it to a bigger company. Production 3D printing can fill that need.

Robox printer, HICTOP (Prusa i3 variant) Model 3DP17 printer, ELEK 2.5W laser engraver, AutoDesk 123D Design, Windows 10

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Re: Mold it, print it or farm it out? Mass producing your parts.

For smaller parts it might be worth buying a desktop injection molder.  For small runs you can get by with making molds with epoxy within the molders fixture.  You could also get a CNC mill to make aluminum molds.  $3000 for both tools can seem like a lot at the start, but if you are making a lot of different parts that initial expense pay for itself.

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Re: Mold it, print it or farm it out? Mass producing your parts.

That's  great point, Ian, especially compared against the cost of traditional injection molds. For my wrist light I got a quote of $60k just for the molds.

Robox printer, HICTOP (Prusa i3 variant) Model 3DP17 printer, ELEK 2.5W laser engraver, AutoDesk 123D Design, Windows 10

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Re: Mold it, print it or farm it out? Mass producing your parts.

If 3d printing is the only way to make the part, you could always buy more printers and run a printer farm.  I have two now and love to have them both going at the same time.

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Re: Mold it, print it or farm it out? Mass producing your parts.

just dont go to China for help or you will regret it. I already had several other types of manufacturing equipment for small parts b4 I got 3D printer and yes I saw printer farms on racks in garages way back when Makerbot cupcake came out.if you can keep em humming with sold orders they pay off well in a few years

Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

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Re: Mold it, print it or farm it out? Mass producing your parts.

Then there's this option if you have a low volume. Print the master copy, smooth it up with acetone or brushed clear or epoxy, then make a silicone mold and cold cast it with plastic resin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBEK_Jyfvek

Robox printer, HICTOP (Prusa i3 variant) Model 3DP17 printer, ELEK 2.5W laser engraver, AutoDesk 123D Design, Windows 10

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Re: Mold it, print it or farm it out? Mass producing your parts.

Heartlander wrote:

Then there's this option if you have a low volume. Print the master copy, smooth it up with acetone or brushed clear or epoxy, then make a silicone mold and cold cast it with plastic resin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBEK_Jyfvek

or low temp non toxic metal as I do. I have 14 old Metal molder toys made by Toymax in the mid 90s and lots of the metal. I make molds for them plus have all molds available for them when sold. over 100 ATM. can run all 14 machines at same time with way  less than 7 amps total in 1 120v plug. can mold items as big as 1.5"x1"x0.7" which covers most N scale vehicles and 25mm figures and smaller. can do bigger items in Lead on smelters either Gilbert, Plumber pot or Lee precision modern for Ammo reloading and toy soldier items if not handled much due to lead toxicity. I also have rubber molding and Vacuform, soft plastic injection machines (old toys used as manufacturing) I would like to get a spin casting machine if costs get lower for used one or make a small one I started. also silicone molds can be made and used for plastic epoxy injection molding like lost wax molds for casting precious metal Jewelry. then I do reverse Acrylic carving also like I made a Topic on here about with pics. and color transparencies for things like model stained glass windows and other items that resemble photo etched objects like Phone booths, Bus stops, guard shacks etc. these are all hobby supplements I have done for most my life now retirement supplements ;^P

Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

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Re: Mold it, print it or farm it out? Mass producing your parts.

I just ran across these guys. Looks pretty comprehensive. Anyone dealt with them?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont … Z9Pt8a9kEg

Robox printer, HICTOP (Prusa i3 variant) Model 3DP17 printer, ELEK 2.5W laser engraver, AutoDesk 123D Design, Windows 10

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Re: Mold it, print it or farm it out? Mass producing your parts.

I just ran a pricing comparison between Sculpteo and Quick Parts. The same part printed with SLS (laser sintered nylon powder) as $55 at Sculpteo and $122 at Quickparts. I thought something was wrong (one was using inches instead of metric, etc.) but they both seem identical. That's an indefensible price difference if true. Sculpteo does excellent work, very high quality finish and fast delivery.

Robox printer, HICTOP (Prusa i3 variant) Model 3DP17 printer, ELEK 2.5W laser engraver, AutoDesk 123D Design, Windows 10