darkhawk wrote:

Just going to state that I have seen PC filaments that do require >300C temperatures.

Where? The highest recommendation I've found is 300C.

ProtoParadigm: 270C
http://www.protoparadigm.com/news-updat … carbonate/

Lulzbot: 300C
https://www.lulzbot.com/products/polyca … t-1kg-reel

Utilimachine: 265C
https://ultimachine.com/category/catalo … onate-175m

E3D: 280C+
http://e3d-online.com/Filament/By-Mater … 1.75mm-1Kg

Matterhackers: 270C+
https://www.matterhackers.com/store/3d- … quarter-kg

Makerfarm: 265C+
http://www.makerfarm.com/index.php/2-2l … ament.html

Plastic2Print: 275-285C
http://www.plastic2print.com/eu/2-85mm- … -50kg.html

270C-310C does not mean you need to be able to exceed 300C to print, which was the point of the discussion. So then, what filaments *require* over 300C? I can think of a very short list:

FEP (no known source, but some has been custom made and tested)
PEEK, at $640/kg.

Neither are really available commercially (the PEEK is a very small batch, a few kg). Both produce absolutely nasty fumes, and aren't likely to be processed by a home user.

elmoret, I'm not going to fight it. I respect you, both as a business man (very awesome I might add) and as someone with extensive 3D printing knowledge.
You and I both know that every filament (and printer, hot end, etc...) is different and will require different temps and settings to print. A google search for a few different PC filaments and you'll find them ranging from 270 to 300 or so. 310 maybe. What's it matter? I saw one that listed 270 to 310C. Can't remember the link, but in the end, the temperature is going to be different for everyone. That's why it's a recommended temperature with a wide range because not every printer is the same.

Lets just drop this matter. Seriously, it's petty to continue arguing it. Especially over something as minor as the max temperature of various PC filaments.

I think the Pico hot end is an interesting idea overall. I'm interested to see how carl's setup turns out to be honest.

elmoret wrote:

carl_m1968 wrote:

Why would you compare a version one product to version 6 product that has had two years to tweak and tune over the version one?

Probably for the same reason that the iPhone 6 is compared to say, the Moto X. The version number doesn't matter, what matters is whats currently available! Are you also comparing the Tesla Roadster to the Ford Model T because they were both original versions? This line of reasoning doesn't make sense.

carl_m1968 wrote:

The PICO is one solid piece that alone should be a selling factor for most.

Why? I've run 200kg of material through a *genuine* E3Dv6, zero leaks. If you bend/break the SS heat break on a Pico, the entire hotend is ruined (goodbye $100). If you bend/break the heatbreak on a v6, you can get another for $18.

carl_m1968 wrote:

Yes you can still buy V4 and V5. Have you not shopped on ebay the 3d printer gold mine of the world? Heck you can still get the original  PEEK J-heads on ebay.

You most definitely cannot, those would be Chinese knockoffs (not from E3D/genuine suppliers). E3D has not produced a v5 part in almost a year, has not produced a v4 part in over a year.

carl_m1968 wrote:

Screw it, I'm done with this forum. Obviously I know nothing and this guy knows everything. Look to him for advise. I'm out.

There's an awful lot I don't know I don't know about 3D printing, but I remain quiet on those topics. I'm sure you know a ton in the area of 3D printing, particularly when it comes to DaVincis. All I'm asking is that discussions stick to facts and rationality. If that offends you, I do apologize. If I posted something incorrect, I'd want it pointed out as well for the sake of the community.

I'll admit that carl has contributed quite a bit of useful info in the past, but this is crazy and I'll have to side with elmoret here...  I don't get involved in internet fights usually, but I am an engineer and the complete lack of logic here drives me insane...

Catch up, all old news now.

carl_m1968 wrote:

Why would you compare a version one product to version 6 product that has had two years to tweak and tune over the version one?

Probably for the same reason that the iPhone 6 is compared to say, the Moto X. The version number doesn't matter, what matters is whats currently available! Are you also comparing the Tesla Roadster to the Ford Model T because they were both original versions? This line of reasoning doesn't make sense.

carl_m1968 wrote:

The PICO is one solid piece that alone should be a selling factor for most.

Why? I've run 200kg of material through a *genuine* E3Dv6, zero leaks. If you bend/break the SS heat break on a Pico, the entire hotend is ruined (goodbye $100). If you bend/break the heatbreak on a v6, you can get another for $18.

carl_m1968 wrote:

Yes you can still buy V4 and V5. Have you not shopped on ebay the 3d printer gold mine of the world? Heck you can still get the original  PEEK J-heads on ebay.

You most definitely cannot, those would be Chinese knockoffs (not from E3D/genuine suppliers). E3D has not produced a v5 part in almost a year, has not produced a v4 part in over a year.

carl_m1968 wrote:

Screw it, I'm done with this forum. Obviously I know nothing and this guy knows everything. Look to him for advise. I'm out.

There's an awful lot I don't know I don't know about 3D printing, but I remain quiet on those topics. I'm sure you know a ton in the area of 3D printing, particularly when it comes to DaVincis. All I'm asking is that discussions stick to facts and rationality. If that offends you, I do apologize. If I posted something incorrect, I'd want it pointed out as well for the sake of the community.

I'll admit that carl has contributed quite a bit of useful info in the past, but this is crazy and I'll have to side with elmoret here...  I don't get involved in internet fights usually, but I am an engineer and the complete lack of logic here drives me insane...

Had to post, I like the place.

Thought you were out lol

115g. Those are LM8UU bearings.

a 2 gram difference, and you would need a fan mount/duct whereas I've already included E3Ds. I'd call it a tie.

Not that it matters but I did say the Pico has different cooling requirements and that my fan holder with no duct is integral to my carriages design. The design actually removes mayerial to mount the fan and direct airflow.

Like I said though does not really matter though. May teduce my head weight which preliminary design looks to be right at 100 grams but there was an error that requires its height to be brought down several mm.

115g. Those are LM8UU bearings.

a 2 gram difference, and you would need a fan mount/duct whereas I've already included E3Ds. I'd call it a tie.

This would be the total weight of my finished head minus the minimal amount of printed material to house and support it. The fan duct will actually be an integral part of the head on my design. The cooling requirement is not exactly the same as the E3D in regards to fan position.

Used my drug er uhm I mean chemical scale.....Yeah chemical as in holographic developing chemicals..

Airwolf says their PC should be printed at 315. Also the higher your print speed the higher your temp would need to be. Most stated temps by vendors are based on the assumption you are printing slow for quality. Just offering one from the first page Google for PC does require over 300. Some vendors do vary I guess.

Airwolf's hotends seem read about 30C higher than everyone else. For instance, Airwolf recommends printing Taulman's Bridge at 270C, when Taulman himself recommends 242C.

Therefore, even Airwolf's PC would be printed at about 285C on non-Airwolf hotends.

An excellent question. I would guess marketing/bragging rights. Your point is the reason E3D doesn't bother including a thermistor capable of over 300C. The other issue with 500C thermistors is their accuracy in the 200-300C range is significantly reduced when compared to their 300C counterparts. That coupled with the fact that 500C thermistors are more expensive, makes it a no brainer to stick with 300C versions.

Welcome back!

So the question is now, why even bother to make a hot end capable, not to be confused with able to do such a high temp as 500 if there is nothing that needs it. The PICO by the way will not do 500 out of the box.

Had to post, I like the place.

Just going to state that I have seen PC filaments that do require >300C temperatures.

Where? The highest recommendation I've found is 300C.

ProtoParadigm: 270C
http://www.protoparadigm.com/news-updat … carbonate/

Lulzbot: 300C
https://www.lulzbot.com/products/polyca … t-1kg-reel

Utilimachine: 265C
https://ultimachine.com/category/catalo … onate-175m

E3D: 280C+
http://e3d-online.com/Filament/By-Mater … 1.75mm-1Kg

Matterhackers: 270C+
https://www.matterhackers.com/store/3d- … quarter-kg

Makerfarm: 265C+
http://www.makerfarm.com/index.php/2-2l … ament.html

Plastic2Print: 275-285C
http://www.plastic2print.com/eu/2-85mm- … -50kg.html

270C-310C does not mean you need to be able to exceed 300C to print, which was the point of the discussion. So then, what filaments *require* over 300C? I can think of a very short list:

FEP (no known source, but some has been custom made and tested)
PEEK, at $640/kg.

Neither are really available commercially (the PEEK is a very small batch, a few kg). Both produce absolutely nasty fumes, and aren't likely to be processed by a home user.

Not every filament is going to be the same, and while company A might say 250C, I've seen many saying >270C to 310C.

Say what you like, carl has given great information over time and I would value any information he posts.

That's not to say that I won't try it out or verify it for myself, but he's given a number of great posts and information in threads throughout the forums.

Hopefully he continues to post.

Why would you compare a version one product to version 6 product that has had two years to tweak and tune over the version one?

Probably for the same reason that the iPhone 6 is compared to say, the Moto X. The version number doesn't matter, what matters is whats currently available! Are you also comparing the Tesla Roadster to the Ford Model T because they were both original versions? This line of reasoning doesn't make sense.

Why? I've run 200kg of material through a *genuine* E3Dv6, zero leaks. If you bend/break the SS heat break on a Pico, the entire hotend is ruined (goodbye $100). If you bend/break the heatbreak on a v6, you can get another for $18.

You most definitely cannot, those would be Chinese knockoffs (not from E3D/genuine suppliers). E3D has not produced a v5 part in almost a year, has not produced a v4 part in over a year.

There's an awful lot I don't know I don't know about 3D printing, but I remain quiet on those topics. I'm sure you know a ton in the area of 3D printing, particularly when it comes to DaVincis. All I'm asking is that discussions stick to facts and rationality. If that offends you, I do apologize. If I posted something incorrect, I'd want it pointed out as well for the sake of the community.