tealvince wrote:

dkeeling728 wrote:

but perhaps more energy should be focused on creating a self cleaning hot end to reduce or eliminate clogging, and continue research to make the heated elements more robust so as to not have failures requiring months of waiting on replacement parts. belts are a minor hassle in comparison.

Making everything reliable sounds hard; in the meantime, how about just making them cheap and easy to replace so we can treat them as consumable items?  I'm thinking of an easily removable hotend mount (ala mk4), a wrench-friendly peek with flat surfaces, a one-piece brass barrel and nozzle, and a cartridge heater pre-soldered to the appropriate connector.

Not a bad idea.

of course its not a bad idea. you get to sell more stuff =P.

all joking aside, its a great idea. mostly the quick access mk4-like extruder part. making it easy to work on a problem prone part makes that part less apt to be poked and prodded with contrived tools to try and avoid taking it out properly, or ignored until it does have a problem.

i think making the parts more robust will be an ongoing process. new materials will need to be tested and evaluated, and the best of all ideas combined into a perfect world situation. think: graphite material (like metal casting crucibles) hot end body and nozzle with ceramic heater core for long life and easy cleaning. not sure if possible, but its an example of a path forward.

dkeeling728 wrote:

but perhaps more energy should be focused on creating a self cleaning hot end to reduce or eliminate clogging, and continue research to make the heated elements more robust so as to not have failures requiring months of waiting on replacement parts. belts are a minor hassle in comparison.

Making everything reliable sounds hard; in the meantime, how about just making them cheap and easy to replace so we can treat them as consumable items?  I'm thinking of an easily removable hotend mount (ala mk4), a wrench-friendly peek with flat surfaces, a one-piece brass barrel and nozzle, and a cartridge heater pre-soldered to the appropriate connector.

Not a bad idea.

but perhaps more energy should be focused on creating a self cleaning hot end to reduce or eliminate clogging, and continue research to make the heated elements more robust so as to not have failures requiring months of waiting on replacement parts. belts are a minor hassle in comparison.

Making everything reliable sounds hard; in the meantime, how about just making them cheap and easy to replace so we can treat them as consumable items?  I'm thinking of an easily removable hotend mount (ala mk4), a wrench-friendly peek with flat surfaces, a one-piece brass barrel and nozzle, and a cartridge heater pre-soldered to the appropriate connector.

by my math, we're only 2-3 years into home 3d printers. 3

you need a better calculator.

I worked at the University of Bath some seven years ago, and heard about the Mendel printer in a staff news letter.

there was already an established rep-rap project at that time, with people making them at home.

[snip]

but perhaps more energy should be focused on creating a self cleaning hot end to reduce or eliminate clogging, and continue research to make the heated elements more robust so as to not have failures requiring months of waiting on replacement parts. belts are a minor hassle in comparison.

I have been trying to design a hotend with high frequency elements in it for a sort of ultrasonic cleaner type setup but am having trouble finding enough time to devote to the project... as if I don't have enough things going on at once but I am making small amounts of progress every week once I solve some of the coupling issues I ran into it will be a big hurdle covered

not being negative at all, just realistic. it is up to us to innovate and keep making the technology more user friendly. i would love to see something made with less tweaking required. perhaps a ballscrew driven version of a rostock delta bot, since i dont think the H frame configuration will lend itself to them too well.

Hear, hear!

Uh, oh! Worse is still to come? :-)

adrian wrote:

Context! Its an important thing

Yes, and so is mind-set.

If we, the pioneers as you call us (20 years into the 3D printing), keep working in a mind-set of being pioneers and tinkerers, we will go through the same slow evolution the 2D printers did. But if we change our view on how 3D printers should work to try to get fully automated 3D printing appliances, we would help the 3D printing revolution greatly!

Solidoodle claims the SD3 to be able print out-of-the-box, as does other manufacturers. If people buys SD3s on that statement (as I did, I'm not really a tinkerer), 3D printers will get a bad rap. A bad rap that will slow the spread of 3D printing down.

by my math, we're only 2-3 years into home 3d printers. 3d printing as an industrial and scientific endeavor has been around since the 80s. but we can compare those to the massive warehouse sized printing presses used to print thousands of books and newspapers, while our miniature units are like the most advanced laserjet of today.

home 3d printing was launched by the opensource tinkerer community for the very reason that its so overly complex as not to appeal to the unskilled masses. this is why the big names in professional 3d printing have never tried to offer an affordable home model. because they know keeping up with adjustments and technical problems would be a nightmare if every macbook toting hipster had one.

not being negative at all, just realistic. it is up to us to innovate and keep making the technology more user friendly. i would love to see something made with less tweaking required. perhaps a ballscrew driven version of a rostock delta bot, since i dont think the H frame configuration will lend itself to them too well.

but perhaps more energy should be focused on creating a self cleaning hot end to reduce or eliminate clogging, and continue research to make the heated elements more robust so as to not have failures requiring months of waiting on replacement parts. belts are a minor hassle in comparison.

fischelbyxa wrote:

adrian wrote:

Context! Its an important thing

Solidoodle claims the SD3 to be able print out-of-the-box, as does other manufacturers. If people buys SD3s on that statement (as I did, I'm not really a tinkerer), 3D printers will get a bad rap. A bad rap that will slow the spread of 3D printing down.

" Clean lines and easy operation - the Solidoodle 3D Printer is the right machine to turn your imagination into reality. Upload a 3D file and watch as the Solidoodle 3D Printer magically creates your part, right before your eyes. This is the printer for people who just want to print, not assemble a machine. The printer comes fully assembled with everything you need to get started - all you need to supply is a computer and power.

As anyone who has assembled a 3D printer from a kit can tell you - the process can be overwhelming... taking weeks and even months before you can even print your first object. At Solidoodle, we take the hassle out of 3D printing by shipping every machine fully assembled and ready to print -- right out of the box."

I know what they promised and for the most part I think their product does indeed deliver what they promise.

I think what a lot of people are griping about is that they didn't realize that they would have to learn how to use their printer and the quirks of 3D printing before they could expect good results. There may be some faults with a couple machines here and there but I would bet that the majority of people receive an "as advertised product". The ratio of complaints to praise is always going to be in favor of the complaints. People tend to not speak up if they are happy.

I really don't see a few bad printers slowing down the spread of 3d printing. 3D printing has an advantage over nearly all other technology booms of the past. It is being spread openly on the internet. While commercial purchases (might) suffer from bad press, the amount of new every day home users that have taken to building their own kits or purchasing prefabbed versions isn't slowing down. The fact that users are actively improving the machines they use helps the manufactures design more "user friendly" and perhaps "user proof".  Automation can only come when every aspect of 3D printing becomes 100% reliable. "We" are working towards that goal. That is what the hacks and mods thread is trying to achieve.

Wow, inspiring!

I really don't see a few bad printers slowing down the spread of 3d printing.

While I am somewhat skeptic, I really hope you are right.

adrian wrote:

Context! Its an important thing

Solidoodle claims the SD3 to be able print out-of-the-box, as does other manufacturers. If people buys SD3s on that statement (as I did, I'm not really a tinkerer), 3D printers will get a bad rap. A bad rap that will slow the spread of 3D printing down.

" Clean lines and easy operation - the Solidoodle 3D Printer is the right machine to turn your imagination into reality. Upload a 3D file and watch as the Solidoodle 3D Printer magically creates your part, right before your eyes. This is the printer for people who just want to print, not assemble a machine. The printer comes fully assembled with everything you need to get started - all you need to supply is a computer and power.

As anyone who has assembled a 3D printer from a kit can tell you - the process can be overwhelming... taking weeks and even months before you can even print your first object. At Solidoodle, we take the hassle out of 3D printing by shipping every machine fully assembled and ready to print -- right out of the box."

I know what they promised and for the most part I think their product does indeed deliver what they promise.

I think what a lot of people are griping about is that they didn't realize that they would have to learn how to use their printer and the quirks of 3D printing before they could expect good results. There may be some faults with a couple machines here and there but I would bet that the majority of people receive an "as advertised product". The ratio of complaints to praise is always going to be in favor of the complaints. People tend to not speak up if they are happy.

I really don't see a few bad printers slowing down the spread of 3d printing. 3D printing has an advantage over nearly all other technology booms of the past. It is being spread openly on the internet. While commercial purchases (might) suffer from bad press, the amount of new every day home users that have taken to building their own kits or purchasing prefabbed versions isn't slowing down. The fact that users are actively improving the machines they use helps the manufactures design more "user friendly" and perhaps "user proof".  Automation can only come when every aspect of 3D printing becomes 100% reliable. "We" are working towards that goal. That is what the hacks and mods thread is trying to achieve.

Rincewind wrote:

Solidoodle claims that SD3 is able to print out-of-the-box, but they never claimed that it will print WELL out-of-the-box

I so hope you have a pointy hat with stars and moons and a sign saying "Wizzard""

Don't forget the Luggage

Solidoodle claims that SD3 is able to print out-of-the-box, but they never claimed that it will print WELL out-of-the-box

I so hope you have a pointy hat with stars and moons and a sign saying "Wizzard""

Solidoodle claims the SD3 to be able print out-of-the-box, as does other manufacturers. If people buys SD3s on that statement (as I did, I'm not really a tinkerer), 3D printers will get a bad rap. A bad rap that will slow the spread of 3D printing down.

Solidoodle claims that SD3 is able to print out-of-the-box, but they never claimed that it will print WELL out-of-the-box

Just joking, but I don't think that just pure "one-click" usability was ever in the design specs of Solidoodle. For example, the "Buccaneer" 3D printer claims to do so: and it covers all the moving parts in a box and makes you use filament cartridges provided by them.

Solidoodle's design goals were (are):
1) Low price
2) Providing a fully-assembled machine.

This might be questionable, but we also have to keep in mind that in one year (the time that passed since the early SD2 orders), the market changed dramatically and Solidoodle was a pioneer in this niche las year.

If we are going to move to assert that Home-Orientated 3D Printing is a 20 year mature technology... then 2D Printing can be dated back to 1436 and the Gutenberg press....  and has some 580+ years of maturity over what we are working with now.... 550 of it before they made all the same if not worse mistakes we are seeing in 3D printer land. Still puts 3D printing ahead of 2D Printing as far as I can do math...

And frankly.. if you buy tech products based on whats 'in the brochure' as being indicative of its shortcomings and difficulties..... Have I got some software and hardware solutions for you!

Caveat Emptor applies for *all* technology solutions.. not just 3D Printing

Now were did that come from?

• Claiming that one thing is ok, because other things are worse is not a valid argument.

• If 2D printing started with Gutenberg, then 3D printing started with people making clay objects tens of thousand years ago. Both statements are equally false.

• If marketing is false, it is false independent on whether other marketing is false or not, and, may I add, independent on catchy Latin phrases long since superseded by statutory laws.

My point wasn't aimed at Solidoodle alone, but rather at what I believe is a fact: 3D printing is quickly becoming mainstream and the media focus is enormous. But if the 3D suppliers fail to deliver appliances, there will be a major backlash.

And frankly.. if you buy tech products based on whats 'in the brochure' as being indicative of its shortcomings and difficulties..... Have I got some software and hardware solutions for you!

Caveat Emptor applies for *all* technology solutions.. not just 3D Printing