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		<title><![CDATA[SoliForum - 3D Printing Community — is this the wright Peek material to use to make hotend peeks]]></title>
		<link>https://www.soliforum.com/topic/2286/is-this-the-wright-peek-material-to-use-to-make-hotend-peeks/</link>
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		<description><![CDATA[The most recent posts in is this the wright Peek material to use to make hotend peeks.]]></description>
		<lastBuildDate>Thu, 09 May 2013 10:55:33 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: is this the wright Peek material to use to make hotend peeks]]></title>
			<link>https://www.soliforum.com/post/22240/#p22240</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>Charles_Xavier wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Just some quick thoughts:</p><ul><li><p>You would want your mold material to be VERY carefully chosen. I think it goes without saying that whatever the epoxy cures against it will be PERMANENTLY bonded to. So you need a mold made out of something stiff and good at holding dimensional tolerance, but that you can either wash away (acetone perhaps) or crumble to dust. Either way, you will leave a small amount of it behind on the surface.</p></li><li><p>Additionally, any material you use for the mold needs to be able to hold an amazing surface finish for the interior, or else you&#039;ll have the same problem these guys with all-metal hot ends do, where they simply cannot polish the interior surface enough.</p></li><li><p>Rather than use a centrifuge for casting, a reasonably strong vacuum can be used to pull out the bubbles and properly fill the mold. I use this technique for really thick polyurethane casting and I get some pretty flawless results.</p></li><li><p>The epoxy itself is a rather poor thermal insulator, but it really shouldn&#039;t be too complicated to put a layer of ceramic paste or something similar should do the job.</p></li></ul><p>I think it is just complicated enough to make mass producing difficult and just expensive/troublesome enough to make me not want to try a one-shot. It&#039;s a good thought, though.</p></blockquote></div><p>for the mould, as I said, this can be printed in ABS, easily dissolved in acetone. and shouldn&#039;t leave residue, -though what if it does? the whole point of the thermal insulator is that it doesn&#039;t get hot, so that ultimately the hot end can be held in a plastic part, (like the MK4 extruder) or wades extruder etc...</p><p>the interior wouldn&#039;t be moulded (far too difficult), you&#039;d simply drill out the epoxy through the barrel to ensure alignment after the part was cast.</p><p>what makes you say that substances like JBWeld are poor insulators?<br /><a href="http://www.reprap.org/wiki/Thermal_Conductivity">http://www.reprap.org/wiki/Thermal_Conductivity</a></p><p>it&#039;s twice as good as a material such as granite which is used as a pot stand to insulate counter tops from hot pans all the time.<br />it&#039;s roughly the same as rockwool.</p><p>Basically according to that chart, JB weld has a thermal conductivity of around 2x that of peek. so should actually be a pretty good choice for the insulator material.</p><p>Completely agree with the mass production point though!<br />but as I said. for you, in your home this isn&#039;t an issue, yes, if you&#039;re trying to run a business I can see why this might be a problem!</p><p>which goes all the way back to the stainless steel discussion before, where I said, as one guy I can spend days on end in front of my lathe carefully lapping the inside of a barrel, but, as a business plan, putting a few hundred dollars of labour into a part that you can only reasonably expect to sell for less than one hundred is crazy...</p><br /><p>the point is the best material for the job, and the best material to do the job economically for a business might not actually be the best thing.</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (danny)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Thu, 09 May 2013 10:55:33 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://www.soliforum.com/post/22240/#p22240</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: is this the wright Peek material to use to make hotend peeks]]></title>
			<link>https://www.soliforum.com/post/22211/#p22211</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>Print a peek mold&nbsp; (use&nbsp; PAM cooking spray as mold release agent) and use this high temp epoxy.</p><p><a href="http://www.cotronics.com/vo/cotr/ca_putties.htm">http://www.cotronics.com/vo/cotr/ca_putties.htm</a></p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (dubbsd)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Wed, 08 May 2013 23:41:25 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://www.soliforum.com/post/22211/#p22211</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: is this the wright Peek material to use to make hotend peeks]]></title>
			<link>https://www.soliforum.com/post/22188/#p22188</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>Just some quick thoughts:</p><ul><li><p>You would want your mold material to be VERY carefully chosen. I think it goes without saying that whatever the epoxy cures against it will be PERMANENTLY bonded to. So you need a mold made out of something stiff and good at holding dimensional tolerance, but that you can either wash away (acetone perhaps) or crumble to dust. Either way, you will leave a small amount of it behind on the surface.</p></li><li><p>Additionally, any material you use for the mold needs to be able to hold an amazing surface finish for the interior, or else you&#039;ll have the same problem these guys with all-metal hot ends do, where they simply cannot polish the interior surface enough.</p></li><li><p>Rather than use a centrifuge for casting, a reasonably strong vacuum can be used to pull out the bubbles and properly fill the mold. I use this technique for really thick polyurethane casting and I get some pretty flawless results.</p></li><li><p>The epoxy itself is a rather poor thermal insulator, but it really shouldn&#039;t be too complicated to put a layer of ceramic paste or something similar should do the job.</p></li></ul><p>I think it is just complicated enough to make mass producing difficult and just expensive/troublesome enough to make me not want to try a one-shot. It&#039;s a good thought, though.</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (Charles_Xavier)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Wed, 08 May 2013 20:10:33 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://www.soliforum.com/post/22188/#p22188</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: is this the wright Peek material to use to make hotend peeks]]></title>
			<link>https://www.soliforum.com/post/22130/#p22130</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>It does seem like epoxy/JB weld should be a great hot end.</p><p>I can&#039;t seem to find any information on the thermal characteristics, (like melting point, if it gasses / what it gasses etc)</p><p>It would seem like this should be the ideal stuff to make a hot end from though. I assume a good method would be to start with a threaded rod with a hole drilled through it, (like there currently is).<br />then an added nozzle (like there currently is)<br />then set this in a block of epoxy/jb weld material where the final shape is a mould, as a bonus it&#039;s be possible to cast a nut inside the insulator meaning that the barrel could be removed without damaging the threads in the thermal barrier, (because the threads aren&#039;t in the thermal barrier they are in the nut that are cast into the thermal barrier). (you could even print the mould to create the new insulator!)</p><p>It&#039;s a lot more involved process to make these though, (making the moulds etc).<br />you&#039;d probably have to cast them in a centrifuge to make a reliable part without bubbles of pockets.<br />think if the material cost of a current hot end.</p><br /><p>About a dollar of brass, a few dollars of peek, a few cents of PTFE as a liner, - retail price, tens of dollars.</p><p>You might end up with an amazing hot end, but I&#039;m not convinced that it&#039;ll be possible to mass produce.<br />not you&#039;re replacing the few dollars of peek with a few dollars of epoxy.</p><br /><p>But you can print the mould, and print and arm and a counter weight, a pivot etc there is no heat or anything dangerous, so this is a pretty cool project. so even casting in a centrifuge wouldn&#039;t be out of the question.</p><p>once you&#039;re finished with the casting you&#039;ll need to run a drill be through the hollow barrel to clear the new insulator material out.</p><br /><br /><p>so a reasonably complex process is needed for what I imagine will let you get the best results. -that might make it unprofitable if you plan to/want to sell them.</p><p>but all the tooling for this (moulds, and even a centrifuge for the casting) can easily be printed. so as a one off project this would be cool...</p><br /><p>but back to the first problem...</p><p>what temperatures can the resin in the epoxy handle before it either all out melts, or is soft enough to deform.<br />what temperature will it start to break down and release gasses at.<br />what are those gasses?</p><br /><p>would be interested to find out of there is any information anywhere about the thermal conductivity of exhaust repair paste.<br />this stuff is made to handle 600 degree C (and higher) temperatures.<br />it dries pretty rock hard.</p><p>whether it prevents heat transfer enough to be used as a thermal barrier would be a good question.<br />(also this stuff is really thick, so casting it will get more difficult!)</p><br /><p>the hot end that you;re thinking of might be this one?<br /><a href="http://www.soliforum.com/topic/2087/made-hotend-improvements/">http://www.soliforum.com/topic/2087/mad … rovements/</a></p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (danny)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Wed, 08 May 2013 15:22:36 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://www.soliforum.com/post/22130/#p22130</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: is this the wright Peek material to use to make hotend peeks]]></title>
			<link>https://www.soliforum.com/post/21996/#p21996</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>Jonathan wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Might be a dumb question, but why not make the whole hot end assembly out of metal? Like aluminum.</p></blockquote></div><p>According to some previous discussions, this is quite doable if the assembly is lengthened to include a big heatsink to insulate heat from the hotend from the rest of the extruder:</p><p><a href="http://www.soliforum.com/topic/1829/revised-hot-end/">http://www.soliforum.com/topic/1829/revised-hot-end/</a></p><p>There was another recent thread that included a pic where someone machined a real nice one, but I couldn&#039;t find it.</p><p>Looking at the thermal conductivity chart referenced in the above link, has anybody tried epoxy?&nbsp; Seems like a relatively easy material to mold or machine, especially the putty-like compounds if they would be strong enough.</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (tealvince)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Tue, 07 May 2013 15:43:36 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://www.soliforum.com/post/21996/#p21996</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: is this the wright Peek material to use to make hotend peeks]]></title>
			<link>https://www.soliforum.com/post/21987/#p21987</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>Might be a dumb question, but why not make the whole hot end assembly out of metal? Like aluminum.</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (Jonathan)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Tue, 07 May 2013 14:10:37 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://www.soliforum.com/post/21987/#p21987</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: is this the wright Peek material to use to make hotend peeks]]></title>
			<link>https://www.soliforum.com/post/21886/#p21886</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>PTFE gets soft at a much lower temperature than PEEK, and doesn&#039;t have much tensile strength to begin with.</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (elmoret)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Mon, 06 May 2013 14:26:37 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://www.soliforum.com/post/21886/#p21886</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: is this the wright Peek material to use to make hotend peeks]]></title>
			<link>https://www.soliforum.com/post/21885/#p21885</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>Hopefully someone with more experience with different plastics can chime in, but if you are making your own anyway, why not upgrade the material to something more robust?&nbsp; Surely there are more heat-resistant plastics available.&nbsp; For instance, PTFE seems to have a very high working temperature, but I don&#039;t know about its other characteristics:</p><p><a href="http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=22699&amp;catid=720&amp;clickid=searchresults">http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.a … rchresults</a></p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (tealvince)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Mon, 06 May 2013 14:00:54 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://www.soliforum.com/post/21885/#p21885</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: is this the wright Peek material to use to make hotend peeks]]></title>
			<link>https://www.soliforum.com/post/21812/#p21812</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://Www.hotends.com">Www.hotends.com</a> sells the raw stock that he uses if you want to mill your own.</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (IanJohnson)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Sun, 05 May 2013 15:31:34 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://www.soliforum.com/post/21812/#p21812</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: is this the wright Peek material to use to make hotend peeks]]></title>
			<link>https://www.soliforum.com/post/21799/#p21799</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>It shouldn&#039;t need to be glass filled, but it&#039;s cheaper on McMaster.</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (elmoret)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Sun, 05 May 2013 14:23:18 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://www.soliforum.com/post/21799/#p21799</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[is this the wright Peek material to use to make hotend peeks]]></title>
			<link>https://www.soliforum.com/post/21797/#p21797</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>is this the wright Peek material to use to make hotend peeks or does it have to be filled.<br />I think I am going to have to set my lathe back up.</p><p><a href="http://www.plasticsintl.com/peek-unfilled-natural-.750in-dia.-12in-long-p-896-l-en.html">http://www.plasticsintl.com/peek-unfill … -l-en.html</a></p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (dubbsd)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Sun, 05 May 2013 14:17:15 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://www.soliforum.com/post/21797/#p21797</guid>
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