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		<title><![CDATA[SoliForum - 3D Printing Community — glass bed material]]></title>
		<link>https://www.soliforum.com/topic/13757/glass-bed-material/</link>
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		<description><![CDATA[The most recent posts in glass bed material.]]></description>
		<lastBuildDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2016 20:46:55 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: glass bed material]]></title>
			<link>https://www.soliforum.com/post/116979/#p116979</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>ok .. here are some number (from <a href="http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/linear-expansion-coefficients-d_95.html)">http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/linea … d_95.html)</a> </p><p>units: 10^-6 m/(m K))</p><p>ABS:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 73.8<br />Plate Glass:&nbsp; 9.0<br />Pyrex:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 4.0</p><p>PLA is oddly missing from the internet(at least my brief attempts), but i found someone&#039;s MSDS that listed their &quot;nylon grade&quot; PLA at 9.0</p><p>Given a 150mm build plate and a 150mm print:&nbsp; This means that given a cool temperature of about 50C (when i get impatient and start poking at the prints) and hot of 100C (my build platform temp of choice) that means that while cooling: </p><p>ABS will shrink 0.5535mm <br />plate glass will shrink 0.0196mm<br />borosilicate will shrink 0.0087mm</p><p>&lt;values calculated with tool at above link)<br />It seems that although borosilicate changes at less than half the rate of plate glass,&nbsp; &nbsp;The percentage difference between ABS and either make the difference seem moot.</p><p>Assuming we calculate stress at extrusion temperature (195c):</p><p>ABS will shrink 1.0515mm over 150mm extremely quickly when it hits the build platform (195 to 100c). </p><p>So the math says that for ABS (assuming I&#039;m understanding it, which is rarely) plate vs boro differences are probably moot once considering other factors.</p><p>Now assuming that PLA value i pulled randomly is vaguely accurate.&nbsp; Plate and PLA shrinkage basically identical.&nbsp; Boro on the other hand shrinks more than 50%.&nbsp; &nbsp;Does that translate to more self separation than ABS?&nbsp; &nbsp;</p><p>Also:<br />Kapton (which is polyamide tape ..i think?)&nbsp; rates at 110 ..so it moves more than ABS.&nbsp; &nbsp;</p><p>I cant find PVA (which is the basis for pretty much all the hairspray, glue stick, elmers based washes)</p><p>PET (which according to amazon sellers is the greatest newest thing for 3d printing) runs at 59.4</p><p>So summary, I&#039;m not surprised the kapton tape adhesive fatigues as it is moving almost as much as the prints do.</p><br /><p>So now the new question is: </p><p>What is the optimum difference in thermal expansion that will ensure sticking while at the same time allowing a high probability of self seperation?</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (maaltan)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2016 20:46:55 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://www.soliforum.com/post/116979/#p116979</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: glass bed material]]></title>
			<link>https://www.soliforum.com/post/116896/#p116896</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>Interesting.&nbsp; there must be something behind the auto-detach and thermal expansion .&nbsp; &nbsp;I print PLA on the plain acetone cleaned glass.&nbsp; If you print the first layer at about half speed it seems to work consistently.&nbsp; I have not done a lot of PLA though.</p><p>The funny thing is my PLA DOES auto-detach from plate glass. I&#039;m guessing the opposite is happening.&nbsp; PLA barely shrinks, while plate glass does.&nbsp; </p><p>I need to do some math to see what kind of shrinkage we are talking about here.&nbsp; Definitely sounds like it would be worth ~$10 for a test boro plate.</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (maaltan)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2016 23:07:45 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://www.soliforum.com/post/116896/#p116896</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: glass bed material]]></title>
			<link>https://www.soliforum.com/post/116888/#p116888</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>I do use borosilicate, and ABS will either pop off on its own, or only be held lightly by the glue stick I apply, once it&#039;s cooled below 45-50C.</p><p>The other &quot;magic&quot; thing about it, and the initial popularity of it for Reprap, was a demonstration made by Adrian Bowyer of printing PLA on clean plain borosilicate. In my limited trials it&#039;s a little hit or miss, both by which specific glass I use (I have a few and swap them out) and how squeaky-clean it is before printing. </p><p>For my money with PLA I&#039;d rather just use the glue stick then, too. But the expansion aspect is probably why the PLA does not just pop loose with cooling.</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (Leghk)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2016 22:12:42 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://www.soliforum.com/post/116888/#p116888</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: glass bed material]]></title>
			<link>https://www.soliforum.com/post/116866/#p116866</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>Roger the mirror tiles. And I&#039;ve not had any shatter when I wash them while they are hot.</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (Heartlander)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2016 19:28:55 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://www.soliforum.com/post/116866/#p116866</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: glass bed material]]></title>
			<link>https://www.soliforum.com/post/116865/#p116865</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>After digging more, the only real non-safety benefit is the thermal expansion coefficient.&nbsp; Borosilcate is practically zero (which is why it doesn&#039;t crack easily from heat stress)</p><p>This apparently translates to 3d printing is that when the plate cools down it stays the same size.&nbsp; when ABS cools it shrinks significantly.&nbsp; Therefore the prints should self separate once cool.&nbsp; This is something I&#039;ve never seen with my thin frame glass.</p><p>that MIGHT be worth the money. Separating ABS from kapton is one of my least favorite chores.... assuming this is also not a myth.</p><p>(aside:&nbsp; Why do my corners always seem to come up early or be permabonded to the kapton <img src="https://www.soliforum.com/img/smilies/smile.png" width="15" height="15" alt="smile" /> )</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (maaltan)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2016 19:28:18 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://www.soliforum.com/post/116865/#p116865</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: glass bed material]]></title>
			<link>https://www.soliforum.com/post/116835/#p116835</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>personally, i think the borosilicate glass thing is a bit of a myth...and a waste of money.</p><p>I have been using mirror tiles cut to bed size (cut myself using a cheap glass cutter) and they work fine, no cracks or breaking over a years use.</p><p>box of six 12&quot; x12&quot; plain edge mirror tiles: $12-15<br />cheap glass cutter: $2-3<br />4 printers with mirror tile beds, and heavy usage with no breaking: Priceless. <img src="https://www.soliforum.com/img/smilies/wink.png" width="15" height="15" alt="wink" /></p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (heartless)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2016 12:41:38 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://www.soliforum.com/post/116835/#p116835</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: glass bed material]]></title>
			<link>https://www.soliforum.com/post/116808/#p116808</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>I do not think there is any question that borosilicate glass is the the best choice for a heated glass bed. <br />However experience has proven that inexpensive window glass is inexpensive and works just fine.&nbsp; I have been printing on the same piece of window glass for about a year and a half . So no real need to spend $25 on a single piece of glass. <br />It comes down to personal choice.<br />Tin</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (Tin Falcon)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2016 01:13:49 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://www.soliforum.com/post/116808/#p116808</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: glass bed material]]></title>
			<link>https://www.soliforum.com/post/116787/#p116787</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>I sat on our workbench&#039;s 12x12 regular glass plate about two weeks after we got it. Wearing jeans and was not hurt or scratched at all, very cheap to replace. Never broken a plate from actual use though.</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (widespreaddeadhead)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2016 20:49:33 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://www.soliforum.com/post/116787/#p116787</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[glass bed material]]></title>
			<link>https://www.soliforum.com/post/116775/#p116775</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>For my bed material, i have been using a pile of 6 inch squares cut from 16x20 framing glass covered with kapton (hairspray, or naked, depending on what I&#039;m printing) .&nbsp; I&#039;ve uses these same pieces for years without breakage.</p><p>I keep seeing people say you must use borosilicate glass (pyrex,etc) for your heated bed.&nbsp; I understand it is for safety aspect, but having a bed crack during a print doesn&#039;t seem to be overly dangerous to the print or the operator.&nbsp; </p><p>When covered in tape of some kind, the glass wouldn&#039;t go too far if it cracked.&nbsp; Even if&nbsp; you were printing on plain glass, the print itself should hold the pieces together after a few layers.</p><p>Are there other reasons you should use one glass over another i am missing?</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (maaltan)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2016 19:02:18 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://www.soliforum.com/post/116775/#p116775</guid>
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