http://formlabs.com/stories/resolution- … -printing/

Hey guys. So I'm back form gathering some info on SLA printers, which has been surprisingly hard.

So far I've gathered some info about the Form1 SLA printer and I'm shocked how bad it is.

First, printing large parts at low layer height can damage the print.

There are print bed adhesion issues here as well.

In FDM, we have nozzles, in SLA it's a laser beam spot curing a liquid resin into solid part.
The thing is with Form1+ the diameter of the beam spot is around 0.3mm, or in other words a nozzle with a 0.3mm hole. So while the Z resolution supposedly can go as low as 25 microns, the X and Y can't go lower than 300.

This is what I mean.
Say you're printing a approx. 1mm wall.
This is how a slice of it will look like:

If the beam diameter was lower, it would look like this:

Here's the same images with crude drawings of the laser spot and it's path to make it more clear.

For $3300, are you kidding me!?

So I don't really get how this SLA printer is any better than setting up a FDM printer to print at 25 micron layer height if you're printing small parts and speed isn't an issue. And you're probably going to have to print small on SLA printers as well with 25 micron layer height so how does it matter?

I tried to compare the specs with industrial SLA printers by 3D Systems but couldn't find the "beam diameter". Maybe its "Border spot" or "Large Hatch Spot"? http://www.3dsystems.com/sites/www.3dsy … en-web.pdf

I haven't had enough time to learn more about the DLP video projector based printers, but at least the claimed X and Y resolution isn't so terrible compared to Z.

1) Kudo3D Titan 1:
"XY resolution: 37μm to 100μm (HD native pixel size)
Z resolution: 5μm (native gear resolution)"

2) M  One:
"Min Feature (I assume this is the X/Y resolution) Up to 70 microns"
"Layer Thickness Up to 20 microns per layer thickness"
And by "up to" I guess they mean "as low as".

While better than Form1 (if true), I really hate how the Z resolution and X and Y resolution is so different and how you can't print larger at lower resolutions.

3) Solidator:
Can't even find the info on their site.

4) Pegasus Touch (SLA):
Focused Laser Spot Size: ~80 microns (FWHM)

I don't like "~" in front of something this important.

5) Draken:
X/Y resolution claimed to be 37 micron.

6) LittleRP:
Couldn't find the info.

7) MiiCraft:
"30 microns by Z-axis and 56 microns by XY-plane"

8) Sedgwick 3d DLP Printer:
"Resolution: 0.1mm-0.08mm for the x and y. 0.1mm layer height for the z"

Probably the worst in the bunch.

9) B9creator:
"Resolutions in the x/y plane (horizontal) of 30, 50 or 70 microns are possible by adjustment of the projector’s position and focus."

If this is really true, 30 is almost 3D Systems quality. I doubt that though.

10) Portobello 3d printer:
"Resolution X- and Y-axis:    60 um
Resolution Z-axis:    25 um - 100 um, we usually work with 60 um"

11) XYZPrinting Nobel 1.0:
"X/Y axis resolution: 0.3mm (300 Microns)/ Z axis: 0.025mm (25 Microns)"

12) Kast3d:
Site is dead?

13) Ember by Autodesk:
"X: 50 microns
Y: 50 microns
Z: 10-100 microns
"
And "$5995 USD". It's from Autodesk you know.

Might want to check out this post for reference with images..

http://www.soliforum.com/post/122763/#p122763

Those are figures next to quarters to give you a reference. Look at the detail of the blade they have and you see a very sharp edge. Your beam spot theory is wrong as the printers logic compensates for it. I don't know about you, but I would say that those are very near injection molded quality. At any case far better than any well tuned FDM can do. This printer can make stuff that would be sellable even to the more picky buyers with higher expectations.

Just to note the Form 1+ can be bought on Ebay for less than $2000 or usually around $1500. The resin is $65 per liter on average. The vats are also $65 on average and good for several large prints and many smaller prints as long as you move them around on the build plate. So the cost for one is reasonable when compared to the higher FDM models like the Taz and others. I am about buy one myself and sell both of my FDM printers. There is shop around the corner from my place that sells small game pieces and has a game room in the back that usually has 50 to 100 players on the week end. Going to see if they might be interested in custom figures once I print some samples.

The way I see it, even a Lamborghini  has problems but the difference in the drive and experience is what sets it apart from other cars. In orher words if you can afford it, why not?

Claghorn wrote:

Now all we need is for 4K TV projectors to get cheaper :-).

Big enough?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFhAKJRTJ0o

cracks me up every time they try and reinvent something. LOL Projection TV has been around since black and whites in the late 1950s My grandpa had a store from 1936-1994 and had an old console version made in 1960. then in the 70s they tried again with color only adding another issue of keeping 3 projectors focused and dust free instead of just 1. also ambient light tends to wash out screen easier than the LED laptop screens in sun light. Sony is now repeating history with even higher cost version. crisp focus is hardest to maintain with such tech. also the resin takes time to cure making each layer take same time b4 doing next while resetting bed height which also adds mechanical ware. I think also its gonna be a few years b4 this tech takes hold even if our printers dont improve (not likely to be the case).

lueman wrote:

Back to subject after .1mm you really don't see layers anymore so a printer with .05 resolution should be good for most applications. imo

+1 thats what most 3D printing industry calls ultra fine resolution. and FDM desk top 3D printers of any value are capable of that now if tweaked properly. its same as any tool/instrument. it can only perform at peek levels if user has mastered how to accomplish it. as the old saying goes about the Stradivarius Violin "its not so much how its built, as the touch of the masters hand" thats why musical instrument sales men must be able to play the instrument very well for best income.

the problem with actual SLA printer, it's that they can do really neat print.. but SMALL... it's ideal for jewelry model, but they can't beat a FFD printer if you need a big print (like 200mm on each side...)

the resin is costly, the printer is costly ... the only advantage that i can see (apart the resolution) is with SLA that use a projector, the speed is not a ratio of the size of your print ... a small or big model take the same time to print, so it can be a big advantage for big model or for a lot of models on the same build plate...

no... it's not you ;P , i was on first line for a beta unit  of the gizmodo3dprint but even the first beta version (gizmate) is around 2500$ (for the SD version, 3200$ for the HD+ version..) WITHOUT the speed module (that cost another 2500$...) and the size is really small... ( 68mm x 38mm x 190 for the HD version at 0.085 mm layer)

we are FAAAAAARRRRR AWAYYY from a speedy DLP SLA printer with a build space of 200mm cubic at 2k$

and to make things worst
http://www.gizmo3dprinters.com.au
is litteraly just around the corner from me :S

yeh guess who's ordering an beta with 405mm x 262mm build space that does 20mm in 5 mins easily all for around $2k
thats 1 hr to do something higher then any FDM/FFF can do and best part is it takes the same amount of time regardless how large it is

Back to subject after .1mm you really don't see layers anymore so a printer with .05 resolution should be good for most applications. imo

+1 thats what most 3D printing industry calls ultra fine resolution. and FDM desk top 3D printers of any value are capable of that now if tweaked properly. its same as any tool/instrument. it can only perform at peek levels if user has mastered how to accomplish it. as the old saying goes about the Stradivarius Violin "its not so much how its built, as the touch of the masters hand" thats why musical instrument sales men must be able to play the instrument very well for best income.

just for fun go into Slic3r, load an STL file go in Slic3r config, file, click 'slice to SVG' and see all the error popups. seems a printer profile for an SLA printer is needed b4 doing this. good luck getting that info from ibox Nano. I think their go to guy for it is no longer with company and they dont know about it. both my sons are in the IT, programing etc industry and we have seen this many times. this problem was even talked about b4 on the TV show "Shark Tank" when a company owner has to rely on somebody else to do the Brain work and they dont see eye to eye, owner thinks they can continue without them and the whole business dissolves faster than it grew, for many reasons. like domino effect.
too bad most people dont learn of this snare before starting up. maybe they could prepare for it and work around issues which mostly boils down to greed and over confidence. give fellow designers fair credit for their contribution towards original invention, instaed of pretending it was all one guys idea. cause we all know what Carma is ;^P

I've been in IT FOR 30 YEARS GOOD LUCK WITH THAT! The company I worked for had to hire 3 people to take my place and they never really recovered. It's  one reason it got out of the corporate trap.

Re

Freelancing is the only way to go.

just for fun go into Slic3r, load an STL file go in Slic3r config, file, click 'slice to SVG' and see all the error popups. seems a printer profile for an SLA printer is needed b4 doing this. good luck getting that info from ibox Nano. I think their go to guy for it is no longer with company and they dont know about it. both my sons are in the IT, programing etc industry and we have seen this many times. this problem was even talked about b4 on the TV show "Shark Tank" when a company owner has to rely on somebody else to do the Brain work and they dont see eye to eye, owner thinks they can continue without them and the whole business dissolves faster than it grew, for many reasons. like domino effect.
too bad most people dont learn of this snare before starting up. maybe they could prepare for it and work around issues which mostly boils down to greed and over confidence. give fellow designers fair credit for their contribution towards original invention, instaed of pretending it was all one guys idea. cause we all know what Carma is ;^P

I've been in IT FOR 30 YEARS GOOD LUCK WITH THAT! The company I worked for had to hire 3 people to take my place and they never really recovered. It's  one reason it got out of the corporate trap.

Re

Freelancing is the only way to go.

How's the peachy printer coming along anyway? Can't find an official release date. Their FAQ answered the who, what, where, how and why, but not the when.

They now say supporters like me will get theirs in July barring further set backs.