the bed temp has to stay above 70c to keep part from popping loose from bed but Slicer allows this setting also. I run mine at 80c for ABS always (never checked actual temp if RH is off some) and use glue stick on kaptan tape (soon glass plate) and never have warping. does fine for even 8hr prints since I started doing this. before at 90c-110c no matter what size, shape or time of print job it always warped loose and distorted beyond use.

now if I get cool air draft over bed and no glue stick in a spot it wont stick to bed or may come loose if 1st layer didnt stick good. but I just restart print after correcting the glue and draft issue. once 1st layer is all stuck good and cool drafts stopped its good to go till finished.

PLA needs about 70c for 1st layer to stick then can turn heat off after plus extrudes lower temp than ABS I set extruder at 195c ABS and 180c PLA but not using PLA now till new hotend with .4mm nozzle also going to keep a .35mm and .25mm nozzles for ABS and may need larger for an exotic filament some day possibly

warping rarely happens on layers above 1st layer unless very cool ambient temps. and all you need for adheasion of 1st layer is lowest temp above 70c that keeps it stuck when using some type of sticky coating like some use hairspray, glue stick, slurry mixes, tapes...

Glass (correction... 3mm borosilicate composite) with thermal conductive pad between glass and HB here. I also use hairspray. I'll give your suggestions a try and see if I fair better.

I just found on my CTC printer that the reported HB temp is WAY off. With it set at 110C, it was actually measuring just 62C with my kitchen thermometer.

I double checked the kitchen thermometer. 0C when touching ice and the measured temp matches reported extruder temp when placed on the heater block. So something is definitely off for the HB. Either a broken thermistor or a badly mounted thermistor on the HB.

On the extruders, the thermistors are installed in an eyelet crimp connector and screwed on. I had issues with the right one and found it wasn't screwed in tightly and the eyelet had heavy oxidation. After sanding it, applying thermal paste and screwing it in tightly, my measurements are very accurate now. Maybe the HB is having the same issue. I'm thinking some of the parts they used were not stored properly. The one on the left was nice and clean.

now if I get cool air draft over bed and no glue stick in a spot it wont stick to bed or may come loose if 1st layer didnt stick good. but I just restart print after correcting the glue and draft issue. once 1st layer is all stuck good and cool drafts stopped its good to go till finished.

PLA needs about 70c for 1st layer to stick then can turn heat off after plus extrudes lower temp than ABS I set extruder at 195c ABS and 180c PLA but not using PLA now till new hotend with .4mm nozzle also going to keep a .35mm and .25mm nozzles for ABS and may need larger for an exotic filament some day possibly

warping rarely happens on layers above 1st layer unless very cool ambient temps. and all you need for adheasion of 1st layer is lowest temp above 70c that keeps it stuck when using some type of sticky coating like some use hairspray, glue stick, slurry mixes, tapes...

my SD2 has the inclosure as I ordered it that way but I leave it upside-down on top mostly now so I can access printer faster plus the bed and extruder and fans kept it like 100f+ inside always when printing and caused motors to overheat on long/detailed prints. and I have the Holmes air purifier on one side drawing the ABS fumes through charcoal filter so home stays odor free

100F is only 37 degrees C. Not nearly enough to prevent warping. I have thought maybe the heated bed actually creates some of the problem because it causes too much temperature differential between the bottom of the part and the middle layers.

The very top layers will be 200 degrees, the bottom layers will be 110 degrees. But the middle will have cooled to near ambient temperature of 32-37 degrees.

So two solutions I can think of. Either only use the heated bed for the first layer and shut it off or increase the temp of the chamber to near the heated bed to try to keep the entire part the same temperature.

my SD2 has the inclosure as I ordered it that way but I leave it upside-down on top mostly now so I can access printer faster plus the bed and extruder and fans kept it like 100f+ inside always when printing and caused motors to overheat on long/detailed prints. and I have the Holmes air purifier on one side drawing the ABS fumes through charcoal filter so home stays odor free

Update: Dropped from 52 to 37 in a about 5 minutes. Lamp method sucks and I need to seal the entire printer apparently. Amazing how quickly it is losing heat.

So I figured, let's find out!

First, a little bit of background. I have installed insulating side panels on both left and right side and found a sterilite tub that fit perfectly over the top of the printer (just cut out where the filament goes in) and applied weatherstripping along the bottom of it to form a gasket. It's just lying on top, not fixed down yet.

I use a kitchen temperature probe to attempt to monintor the temp inside the chamber. Since I am mainly interested in the temperature around the build platform, I taped the probe to the back wall of the Z axis. Now, the probe will follow the build platform.

Finally, I took a 60W work lamp and have it sitting pretty much right inside the printer to preheat it.

It did manage to raise the temperature around 13 degrees C after nearly a half hour. Not nearly as effective as I had hoped.

However, I did learn a few things. One, it makes sense to mount my probe to the Z-Axis since that is where things are the most important. Second, an incandescent lamp does not heat the air as much as one would think. They make special heat lamps for that (like the easy bake oven uses.) And third, my chamber heater might benefit from mounting on the Z-Axis as well.

So, here some ideas... (this is a 24V system)

Two 2.4 ohm power resistors mounted in series as a heater. Tap off the center to run the 12V blower fan.
Use a heater cartridge like used on extruders and assemble some custom radiator
Tiny halogen lamp as the heat source with radiator and blower. Second advantage is a lighted build area.

When I was experimenting with different ideas, I found some nice little 40mm blowers that are very light and quiet. If I can make this heater compact enough to mount on the Z-axis and blow the hot air onto the build area, that may perhaps be ideal. I think I could fit the entire affair inside of an altoids tin.

Thoughts? Power resistors, heater cartridge, or halogen lamp?

n2ri wrote:

like I posted earlier the only component that has to be cooled due to not being able to remove it from the inclosure is theX axis stepper motor and the small bithermal wafer can be pasted and straped to its side and controled with the heat controler to keep it comffy

?? I am not trying to cool any steppers, liquid or otherwise. You have me really confused. lol

well the one on right side of printer has had overheat issues in the past in just inclosed cases without added heat some even cooked the old boards pots

like I posted earlier the only component that has to be cooled due to not being able to remove it from the inclosure is theX axis stepper motor and the small bithermal wafer can be pasted and straped to its side and controled with the heat controler to keep it comffy

?? I am not trying to cool any steppers, liquid or otherwise. You have me really confused. lol

Retroplayer wrote:

n2ri wrote:

thats basically an Bi-electric refrigerator plate like small car coolers use developed by NASA in the 60s. and they cant handle much heat load like 90 degrees F they start loosing ground. also no room for liquid cooling. but if you use Bowden extruders and the Y/Z motors mounted outside as stated then only the X motor needs cooled as long as the printing material is not over heated. making it easier to deal with so just attach that cooling wafer to that  motor.

A peltier is capable of 70 degree C differential between sides. But if you don't effectively remove the heat from the hot side and keep the cold side cold, the whole thing warms up and just turns into a heater, then it stops working.

I have played around with different heatsinks, and the large copper one on the hot side and a fan works very well unless you run it for hours (which would not be happening in this case.) It pulls the heat away from the peltier, so the heat doesn't heat up up the ceramic as much. I believe it can be made to work. I am doing my research. If not, no big deal. I have other heater options. The peltier is nice mostly because it provides a cold side as well. I bought a water cooler block that I will experiment with pushing air through to see if I can move chilled air through tubing.

thats a chiller and not enough surface area to use as air heat transfer plus any humidity in the air would make it frost solid in seconds. now if your water cooler has the freon lines wrapped around a tank like most, you may try cutting both ends out of tank and find a way to put aluminum fins linear fashion around outer edge of inside cylinder and direct air flow through the fins (aluminum transfers heat faster than copper) that may be doable. since I spent most my career in the HVAC/Refrigeration field that kind of stuff is interesting to experiment with.

You might need to diagram up what you are talking about there because it isn't clear to me. First, there is no water cooling going on. I was only planning to experiment with pushing air through the water-cooler block (it would be mounted on the cold side, not the hot side) to pick up the cold air and push it through a hose.

The point of this is:

1. A heater to heat the inside of the build chamber
2. A cooler to create chilled air to be piped in and directed at the print nozzle to support bridges in the heated environment

You have a point about moisture in the air, though and I will probably need to take steps to remove it.

n2ri wrote:

thats basically an Bi-electric refrigerator plate like small car coolers use developed by NASA in the 60s. and they cant handle much heat load like 90 degrees F they start loosing ground. also no room for liquid cooling. but if you use Bowden extruders and the Y/Z motors mounted outside as stated then only the X motor needs cooled as long as the printing material is not over heated. making it easier to deal with so just attach that cooling wafer to that  motor.

A peltier is capable of 70 degree C differential between sides. But if you don't effectively remove the heat from the hot side and keep the cold side cold, the whole thing warms up and just turns into a heater, then it stops working.

I have played around with different heatsinks, and the large copper one on the hot side and a fan works very well unless you run it for hours (which would not be happening in this case.) It pulls the heat away from the peltier, so the heat doesn't heat up up the ceramic as much. I believe it can be made to work. I am doing my research. If not, no big deal. I have other heater options. The peltier is nice mostly because it provides a cold side as well. I bought a water cooler block that I will experiment with pushing air through to see if I can move chilled air through tubing.

thats a chiller and not enough surface area to use as air heat transfer plus any humidity in the air would make it frost solid in seconds. now if your water cooler has the freon lines wrapped around a tank like most, you may try cutting both ends out of tank and find a way to put aluminum fins linear fashion around outer edge of inside cylinder and direct air flow through the fins (aluminum transfers heat faster than copper) that may be doable. since I spent most my career in the HVAC/Refrigeration field that kind of stuff is interesting to experiment with. lots of complicated things to consider when designing an Air Conditioning system beside time and money. like dealing with the condensation on air fins so it dont leak water everywhere for starters...

thats basically an Bi-electric refrigerator plate like small car coolers use developed by NASA in the 60s. and they cant handle much heat load like 90 degrees F they start loosing ground. also no room for liquid cooling. but if you use Bowden extruders and the Y/Z motors mounted outside as stated then only the X motor needs cooled as long as the printing material is not over heated. making it easier to deal with so just attach that cooling wafer to that  motor.

A peltier is capable of 70 degree C differential between sides. But if you don't effectively remove the heat from the hot side and keep the cold side cold, the whole thing warms up and just turns into a heater, then it stops working.

I have played around with different heatsinks, and the large copper one on the hot side and a fan works very well unless you run it for hours (which would not be happening in this case.) It pulls the heat away from the peltier, so the heat doesn't heat up up the ceramic as much. I believe it can be made to work. I am doing my research. If not, no big deal. I have other heater options. The peltier is nice mostly because it provides a cold side as well. I bought a water cooler block that I will experiment with pushing air through to see if I can move chilled air through tubing.

and I use ABS (you need to read the MSDS on ABS! have you noticed blood shot eyes etc?)

No. I have noticed no ill effects from it at all. Maybe too much solder fumes in my life have hardened me.

BTW, this CTC printer is also much much quieter than my SD4. But I really dislike ReplicatorG!! I need to dig my heels in and figure out how to get it up and running on Repetier-Host.