elmoret wrote:

Real companies keep their word - companies that stick around, that is.

+1

Solidoodle shouldn't promise the world when they know they can't deliver it. People are fine with delays until your product starts looking like another Duke Nukem (Taking) Forever.

Especially when the workbench and workbench apprentice really aren't anything you couldn't build up on an existing Solidoodle it's just a revision really. I want to stop bashing Solidoodle as harshly as I usually do on here, but I think their new lineup is pretty boring, same-old-stuff. Adding features while ignoring advancements the community is giving away for free doesn't sound like the actions of a company that's in tune with its community. Which is a shame because the Solidoodle community is one of the best I've ever encountered. We'd all be nowhere without it.

Edit: and this is burning on my mind... One of the new models has a 10x10 build area right? And the carriage looks the same ... Ick. Surely they did more than put longer rods in. God I hope so.

+1 and its a 12x12 bed with what you said plus the cheapest duel extruder available and dif PSU and motherboards unknown if upgrade or just new issues. thats all we been told. hence Im gearing up to mod my old SD2 and save time , Money and bench space

Real companies keep their word - companies that stick around, that is.

+1

Solidoodle shouldn't promise the world when they know they can't deliver it. People are fine with delays until your product starts looking like another Duke Nukem (Taking) Forever.

Especially when the workbench and workbench apprentice really aren't anything you couldn't build up on an existing Solidoodle it's just a revision really. I want to stop bashing Solidoodle as harshly as I usually do on here, but I think their new lineup is pretty boring, same-old-stuff. Adding features while ignoring advancements the community is giving away for free doesn't sound like the actions of a company that's in tune with its community. Which is a shame because the Solidoodle community is one of the best I've ever encountered. We'd all be nowhere without it.

Edit: and this is burning on my mind... One of the new models has a 10x10 build area right? And the carriage looks the same ... Ick. Surely they did more than put longer rods in. God I hope so.

Sure they do. Game companies do them all the time. Of course pre-sales of projects with sketchy time lines have been a major feature in the kickstarter, and hardware start up worlds. I think everyone agrees that is frustrating, and I don't think anyone is wrong to be frustrated with it.

Sorry, I thought it was clear we were talking about hardware companies here.

Also, Solidoodle is not a startup company. They've been around for years now, they're not running out of a garage. They have dozens of employees and have released several products.

Its time to stop making excuses. Real companies keep their word - companies that stick around, that is.

The problem is that Solidoodle is NOT a kickstarter company any more. They need to stop acting like one. Theres no #$%^ing excuse the development should have been FINAL and first batch IN STOCK before taking orders. And orders should have been put on back-order when inventory issues came up AFTER FIRST BATCH.

Oh, and Just-In-Time is only for a process that has been stabilized, not a half-assed organization that sells before they even realize their design cannot hold up to an as-yet-tested assembly/manufacturing process. A prototype is not a proven design. A proven design is when you can manufacture hundreds of units and pass internal quality testing.

SD should have been well past PCB problems and molding changes long before every taking a single customers dime. This is just sh$$y practice. After 3 years Solidoodle should not be running like a garage-based business anymore. I feel sorry for anyone who bets on them at this point.

I feel your frustration. When products like this run late, it's a no-win for everybody. What I can say is that Solidoodle doesn't have any malicious intent in the way they structure their time lines. Making hardware forces you to make some tough choices. I am reminded of an interaction I had some time ago with a large networking hardware manufacturer. Despite funneling large amounts of capital at the problem, they still faced embarrassing levels of hardware, firmware, and software flaws in their products. Not to mention scheduling issues.

I'm not making excuses for anybody, but hardware is very hard. Fast paced start up environments don't necessarily help this. Well funded corporate entities, with the best minds available have often managed to run projects late, blow up rockets, crash planes, blow up fuel plants, etc.

I know for sure Solidoodle wants the best for everyone. They want to ship as soon as it is advisable, and they want to ship the best product they can.

Sure they do. Game companies do them all the time. Of course pre-sales of projects with sketchy time lines have been a major feature in the kickstarter, and hardware start up worlds. I think everyone agrees that is frustrating, and I don't think anyone is wrong to be frustrated with it.

Real companies don't do "presales".
You don't see Apple taking money for the iWatch.

Well IMHO SD bit off more than they could chew with coming out with three new models at once. Like I said in a previous post a bold move.
As we know SD is a small business. Working for several small businesses over the years I know finances can can be touchy.
The big accounts such as schools and large businesses that may buy multiple units will purchases on a PO and pay in 30-90 days.
And payables are normally due in 30 days. So you want to launch a new product or in this case 3 new products. And it will take an estimated 60 days to have the units ready to ship. Choises  take out a loan  and guess how many units need to be built. And pay interest that will have to added to the cost. Find investors  pretty much the same as the last option or give a discounted price for preorderd. you know how many units are needed and the customers become the investors for the initial .production run.  And as with any other investment there is risk. The reward is a lower price for the product. The risk of loss here is not loss of money but of time . The investors are having to wait for the reward of there discounted printer. right wrong or indifferent everyone who signed on knew the delivery date was projected not guaranteed. 
Do not think I am unfeeling If I had pre purchased I would be frustrated as well. I feel your pain.
I hope in the future SD either introduces one project at a time or plans better to meet the promised deadline. Promise may be too strong a word but if a ship date  is set people expect it or maybe one delay not a bunch.
Tin

You don't see Apple taking money for the iWatch.

The problem is that Solidoodle is NOT a kickstarter company any more. They need to stop acting like one. Theres no #$%^ing excuse the development should have been FINAL and first batch IN STOCK before taking orders. And orders should have been put on back-order when inventory issues came up AFTER FIRST BATCH.

Oh, and Just-In-Time is only for a process that has been stabilized, not a half-assed organization that sells before they even realize their design cannot hold up to an as-yet-tested assembly/manufacturing process. A prototype is not a proven design. A proven design is when you can manufacture hundreds of units and pass internal quality testing.

SD should have been well past PCB problems and molding changes long before every taking a single customers dime. This is just sh$$y practice. After 3 years Solidoodle should not be running like a garage-based business anymore. I feel sorry for anyone who bets on them at this point.

Honestly? While I don't agree with their lack of info and hate delays as the next guy, it was a presale. With presale pricing. Everybody should've known what they were getting into: That the devices weren't ready, and that when bringing a new device to maket, the manufacturer can hit bumps in the road. If you don't like that, you should stick to regular sales, and not 'bet' on presales.

Oh, and Just-In-Time is only for a process that has been stabilized, not a half-assed organization that sells before they even realize their design cannot hold up to an as-yet-tested assembly/manufacturing process. A prototype is not a proven design. A proven design is when you can manufacture hundreds of units and pass internal quality testing.

SD should have been well past PCB problems and molding changes long before every taking a single customers dime. This is just sh$$y practice. After 3 years Solidoodle should not be running like a garage-based business anymore. I feel sorry for anyone who bets on them at this point.

Looking at the answers to questions what has been holding them back is last minute changes to the PCB and the injection molds.  Now I don't know injection molding, but I have some experience in Electronics manufacturing and to get boards after a change you're usually looking at 6 to 8 weeks.  which if I do my math right, the middle of November is ~6 weeks after the initial end of Sept. release.  I would guess that it is a similar amount of time for injection molding except as they said there would be a lag because the molds need to be modified. 

What I think the main concern is, is validation and how well are they going to be able to validate the new layout.  I don't know what % of the boards are power circuitry as opposed to digital or analog, but I do know that when dealing with power electronics even small changes can cause a lot of problems. 

Now of course any questions that are asked to their customer support will be answered with "we are confident we are providing a quality product".  So my question is, who here lives in new York, can find one of the floor level techs, and get them drunk so they start talking about the problems?  I'll chip in for the bar tab. ;-)

Making changes to Electronics, and physical hardware can be tricky, and can easily balloon out your time tables. As a software person, where I can make tons of last minute changes, I am not envious of the kinds of pressures mechanical engineers have to deal with.

What I think the main concern is, is validation and how well are they going to be able to validate the new layout.  I don't know what % of the boards are power circuitry as opposed to digital or analog, but I do know that when dealing with power electronics even small changes can cause a lot of problems. 

Now of course any questions that are asked to their customer support will be answered with "we are confident we are providing a quality product".  So my question is, who here lives in new York, can find one of the floor level techs, and get them drunk so they start talking about the problems?  I'll chip in for the bar tab. ;-)

Was this a kickstarter? j/k

NOPE. sure leaves that same taste in your mouth though dont it?