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	<title type="html"><![CDATA[SoliForum - 3D Printing Community — The benefits of upgrading to a geared extruder?]]></title>
	<link rel="self" href="https://www.soliforum.com/feed/atom/topic/5711/" />
	<updated>2014-02-28T15:55:22Z</updated>
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	<id>https://www.soliforum.com/topic/5711/the-benefits-of-upgrading-to-a-geared-extruder/</id>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: The benefits of upgrading to a geared extruder?]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/51127/#p51127" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>Yeah I saw some of those as well.&nbsp; My only concern was that the printed gears would not be precise enough to give equal extrusions per step since the tooth profile would vary slightly tooth to tooth. At least relatively speaking when compared to the machined/cast metal gears used in the gear boxes I looked at.&nbsp; That&#039;s why I decided to bite the bullet and just play safe.&nbsp; But I am sure you could come up with an all printed solution, just may not be as effective.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[pastprimitive]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/957/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2014-02-28T15:55:22Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/51127/#p51127</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: The benefits of upgrading to a geared extruder?]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/51121/#p51121" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>FWIW, just out of curiosity I had to search &quot;nema planetary&quot; on Thingiverse and, not surprisingly, there are lots, e.g. <a href="http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:8460">http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:8460</a> (with added ~35mm depth this doesn&#039;t look it would work, but still interesting <img src="https://www.soliforum.com/img/smilies/smile.png" width="15" height="15" alt="smile" /></p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[spapadim]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/1993/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2014-02-28T15:15:19Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/51121/#p51121</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: The benefits of upgrading to a geared extruder?]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/51099/#p51099" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>Actually turned out just fine.&nbsp; Chatted with customer support, changing the order right now to a 6mm shaft--no 5mm shaft--but I have a 4 jaw chuck and the patience to get my runout within 0.03mm to bore it out to 6mm. So no biggie. </p><p>Again, thanks for catching that.&nbsp; </p><p>Here is the one I changed to. <a href="http://www.omc-stepperonline.com/ratio-51-geared-stepper-motor-for-nema-17-stepper-motor-p-140.html">http://www.omc-stepperonline.com/ratio- … p-140.html</a> This is only 34mm long motor. So i&#039;ll get another 6mm of clearance to play with. Plus the weight ought to be better then even the solidoodle stock motor I am assuming.&nbsp; The whole package weighs in at 380grams not including the extruder.&nbsp; And it&#039;s $5 cheaper.&nbsp; </p><p>Now I should go track down a 6mm ID hobbled extruder gear for those who want to do the upgrade and don&#039;t have access to a lathe. </p><p>Thanks for saving my skin again. An 8mm shaft would have been a MAJOR pain to deal with.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[pastprimitive]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/957/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2014-02-28T08:01:02Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/51099/#p51099</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: The benefits of upgrading to a geared extruder?]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/51097/#p51097" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>pastprimitive wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I have lots of enthusiasm.</p></blockquote></div><p>Best quality to have really <img src="https://www.soliforum.com/img/smilies/smile.png" width="15" height="15" alt="smile" /> <img src="https://www.soliforum.com/img/smilies/smile.png" width="15" height="15" alt="smile" /><br />And don&#039;t sweat it - we all get lost in specs sometimes <img src="https://www.soliforum.com/img/smilies/smile.png" width="15" height="15" alt="smile" /></p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[adrian]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/663/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2014-02-28T07:42:24Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/51097/#p51097</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: The benefits of upgrading to a geared extruder?]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/51095/#p51095" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>8mm.... i&#039;m an idiot.&nbsp; I got lost in their product pages</p><p>Well then time for me to call customer service and get my order changed...</p><p>Thank you so much... I have lots of enthusiasm. Sometimes less brains.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[pastprimitive]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/957/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2014-02-28T07:37:50Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/51095/#p51095</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: The benefits of upgrading to a geared extruder?]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/51093/#p51093" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>the stock is 40mm, so if thats was the intention, then you&#039;ve got an extra 8mm up your sleeve - BUT... according to the data sheet - the shaft is 8mm btw, not 5 - so wont be using the stock motor unless you turn up a collar <img src="https://www.soliforum.com/img/smilies/sad.png" width="15" height="15" alt="sad" /> ....</p><p>The front fan would work fine, mainly because the idea is to prevent the filament from softening whilst also cooling the motor as well - but this bit is kind of secondary. The motor is normally cooled so the stepper case can&#039;t radiate heat the filament causing it to soften and have feed issues - so if you active cool the filament then &#039;all is good&#039; and you can forget the motor (within normal limits of course). </p><p>If you go bowden - then you can have &#039;easy to print&#039; gears like a wades with herringbone cut gears quite easily - or yes do all manner of things with the planetary box... you just need to get some decent push-fit connectors (you can improvise with nyloc nuts et al - but they do come out, usually the middle of a print, where as quality push-fits correctly matched to the PTFE size will give you no troubles)</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[adrian]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/663/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2014-02-28T07:34:15Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/51093/#p51093</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: The benefits of upgrading to a geared extruder?]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/51092/#p51092" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>Also ironically I think I was under the impression that I was only getting the gear box...&nbsp; But I believe it in fact is the whole package as pictured.&nbsp; The wording for the listing is a bit misleading &quot;Gear 5:1 Planetary Gearbox <strong>for Nema 17 Geared Stepper Motor</strong>&quot; makes it sound as if it&#039;s just the gearbox that you get.&nbsp; But Looks like I&#039;ll have an extra stepper motor on hand:) </p><p>Which is good because I have been meaning to finish up my eggbot project that&#039;s just waiting on me to get another stepper... </p><p>I suppose there is the danger that there supplied motor&#039;s shaft is not 5mm, or that the gear that connects it to the the planetary gear box is an interference fit. Which wouldn&#039;t be the end of the world for me because I have an arbor press for such challenges. But again more work.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[pastprimitive]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/957/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2014-02-28T07:22:46Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/51092/#p51092</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: The benefits of upgrading to a geared extruder?]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/51091/#p51091" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>Those are the specs with the Nema 17 motor they attached.&nbsp; I will be using the solidoodle stock nema 17.&nbsp; So I am not sure if it&#039;s weight will be comparable to the one they show, but fair point if it is.&nbsp; Perhaps time to go to a bowden setup;)</p><p>As far as the length, again that&#039;s with their assumed motor.&nbsp; After measuring the solidoodle motor I believe it comes in at about 40mm as opposed to 48mm.&nbsp; Couldn&#039;t get a precise read, in the middle of printing some filawinder parts.&nbsp; But the stock solidoodle fan assembly still may prove problematic interference wise.&nbsp; However on the Solidoodle 4&#039;s I&#039;ve noticed they got rid of the aluminum heat sink in favor of putting a fan to the side of the extruder up front.&nbsp; Perhaps because of the new metal extruder, adequate heat dissipation?&nbsp; So I suppose as I make that aluminum mk5 variant I talked about no problem following suit with my fan.&nbsp; </p><p>But regardless, not quite the &quot;no fuss&quot; swap out I thought I had found, but pretty close, especially for the price. </p><p>I do have a bunch of PTFE tubing on it&#039;s way thought so I might just ditch the whole carriage mounted setup and convert to a Bowden.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[pastprimitive]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/957/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2014-02-28T07:16:11Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/51091/#p51091</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: The benefits of upgrading to a geared extruder?]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/51090/#p51090" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>Just in case you didn&#039;t notice: </p><p>Weight; 520g. And you haven&#039;t added the extruder assembly (good thing its plastic!)<br />That weighs more than the whole Bulldog + Extruder assembly which is 495g - something to be very mindful of on the already overtaxed X and Y-Axis (unless you plan to upgrade those steppers too?)</p><p>Also:<br />Motor Length&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 48mm<br />Gearbox Length&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 27.3mm</p><p>Without the extruder, its 75.3mm&#039;s - The bulldog front to rear is 80mm including extruder assembly. <br />And don&#039;t forget the fan on the back of the extruder - unless you plan to work out some sort of blower setup and go underneath the motor as well ?</p><p>Anyway - on the right track and if you tighten up those lengths and weights you might be onto something - but a fair way to go yet before it fits and works on a solidoodle comfortably comparably to other off-the-shelf options <img src="https://www.soliforum.com/img/smilies/smile.png" width="15" height="15" alt="smile" /></p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[adrian]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/663/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2014-02-28T06:57:48Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/51090/#p51090</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: The benefits of upgrading to a geared extruder?]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/51088/#p51088" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>I suppose I&#039;m pretty darn close to a bulldog xl extruder setup.&nbsp; The main difference being I still have a tension arm. Although I am thinking I ought to take the opportunity to machine myself an Aluminum Mk5 variant.&nbsp; I have enough scrap lying around...</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[pastprimitive]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/957/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2014-02-28T06:31:36Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/51088/#p51088</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: The benefits of upgrading to a geared extruder?]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/51087/#p51087" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>Here&#039;s a nice solution <span style="color: red">requiring pretty much zero adaptation</span>. A bolt on Nema 17 5:1 gear box.&nbsp; $31.95 + Shipping.&nbsp; Simply add some aluminum spacers, or a ABS single-piece custom spacer, or an Aluminum block spacer if you have those capabilities, purchase longer M3 bolts, cut zip tie and reposition the assembly further back on stock extruder platform.&nbsp; That&#039;s a price I can really get behind, <span style="color: red">and pretty much a no-fuss swap out.</span> (<span style="color: red">red</span>=not so much, but still a much cheaper solution for a very similar bulldog XL setup.)</p><p>Since you may need hard to find length M3 socket head bolts you could always use M3 all thread with nylock nuts, cut to required length.</p><p>I ordered one, and we&#039;ll see how this bad boy works out. </p><p><strong><a href="http://www.omc-stepperonline.com/ratio-51-geared-stepper-motor-for-nema-17-stepper-motor-p-140.html">http://www.omc-stepperonline.com/ratio- … p-140.html</a> 6mm shaft dia. 380 grams</strong> (the one I ordered)</p><p><a href="http://www.omc-stepperonline.com/ratio-51-planetary-geared-stepper-motor-for-nema-17-stepper-p-141.html">http://www.omc-stepperonline.com/ratio- … p-141.html</a> 8mm shaft dia. 410 grams</p><div class="quotebox"><blockquote><p><strong>Important!</strong></p><p>Lest you fall into the same trap that I did, this solution will require a bit more then just swapping parts out.&nbsp; From this particular supplier the NEMA 17 packages they have only come with 6mm and 8mm output shafts.&nbsp; So you&#039;ll need to pick up a new hobbled extruder gear to fit, or if you go with the 6mm output shaft option you could bore your stock extruder gear out to 6mm if you have access to a lathe with a 4 jaw chuck for precise boring with minimal runout.&nbsp; Perhaps a 3-jaw chuck would be sufficient, but I am not going to risk it, and since I have both... blah blah blah... Also the 6mm is lighter.</p><p><strong>Anyhow make sure to read the whole thread</strong>, To get a nice idea of what you are in for to make this accommodate a solidoodle.</p></blockquote></div><br /><div class="quotebox"><blockquote><p><strong>Update:</strong></p><p>It&#039;s actually a 5.19:1 gear ratio so pretty much identical to the bulldog setup.&nbsp; In fact I am suspicious that the bulldog uses the same bolt on gear box.... Adrian, you&#039;ve got one right? Does that look right to you?</p></blockquote></div>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[pastprimitive]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/957/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2014-02-28T06:14:40Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/51087/#p51087</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: The benefits of upgrading to a geared extruder?]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/51085/#p51085" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, going with a NEMA package would be easier to adapt, but the one I ordered up above was $4... So it was an easy impulse purchase. But I&#039;ll check out the NEMA package geared steppers and see what the price is on those guys.&nbsp; I wonder why solidoodle moved away from them, just a higher cost, etc... ?</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[pastprimitive]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/957/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2014-02-28T05:14:51Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/51085/#p51085</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: The benefits of upgrading to a geared extruder?]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/51083/#p51083" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>You could just get a geared stepper.&nbsp; &nbsp;Since it is geared you might get away with a nema 14,&nbsp; which is what the SD1 used.&nbsp; &nbsp;If you look for the first video Solidoodle posted introducing the SD2 you will see it still had that motor.&nbsp; &nbsp;The SD1 actually had pretty good quality since the extruder was geared and the rods were constrained on both sides,&nbsp; with no wobbly teflon blocks.</p><p>The stepper would drop in,&nbsp; but the holes on the front of the gearbox are a different pattern so you would need to redesign the extruder.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[IanJohnson]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/14/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2014-02-28T05:11:10Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/51083/#p51083</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: The benefits of upgrading to a geared extruder?]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/51081/#p51081" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>Well thanks for the heads up warning.&nbsp; My laser cutter&#039;s home will be right next to my computer, and I&#039;d rather not fumigate myself... Although a bit curious; i&#039;m assuming your university&#039;s laser cutter has the required exhaust system, or does it just have a carbon filter and vent indoors?&nbsp; </p><p>If so I will be venting via an exhaust tube to the great outdoors... my children can thank me later for contributing to the hole in the ozone.&nbsp; Anyhow perhaps that will solve smell issues.&nbsp; </p><p>Of course that still won&#039;t solve not being strong enough to handle the torque... Of course the one benefit to laser cut lexan over FDM ABS would be that the lexan would be at it&#039;s peak strength since it&#039;s not being put down in .1mm layers, and therefor no delimitation issues. </p><p>As far as cutting nylon, according to this it will, just melts badly--whatever that means--i&#039;m guessing deformed edges which would be less then ideal for gears.&nbsp; <a href="http://www.pololu.com/docs/0J24/3">http://www.pololu.com/docs/0J24/3</a></p><p>Perhaps a better solution then fabricating our own transmission is harvesting one from an all metal transmission from an inexpensive DC geared motor. Perhaps one like this...<a href="http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-6V-DC-Small-Micro-Geared-Box-Electric-Motor-High-Quality-/190576860674?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&amp;hash=item2c5f441e02">http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-6V-DC-Small-M … 2c5f441e02</a> </p><p>Or this is probably not going to have the acceleration we would need, but use this motor for a direct drive extruder, but since it&#039;s geared you get the resolution and hopefully enough torque to make an ultra compact extruder... I&#039;m thinking it&#039;s not going to have the acceleration you&#039;d want, but not wanting to track down the data sheet for it, I just ordered one to play with. for $4 it&#039;ll be a good toy to have around for some other project.&nbsp; It has 64 steps per revolution. But with internal gear reduction included the equivalent of 4096 steps per revolution.&nbsp; I am guessing it&#039;s plastic gearing inside... But maybe metal.&nbsp; I&#039;ll find out in a few days;) Anyhow this strikes me as quite an elegant solution if it can meet the torque and acceleration requirements.&nbsp; I am pretty confident it will meet the torque requirements, but speed not so sure. Of course backlash I am assuming will most definitely be an issue with such a stepper motor, but nothing our good old hysteresis firmware compensation won&#039;t handle with ease. <a href="http://www.ebay.com/itm/380803233237">http://www.ebay.com/itm/380803233237</a></p><p>My final thought is that the super cheap drills... Take it apart and harvest the gearing in that. I&#039;ve done that for a few projects, and it turns out to be a wonderful source for a cheap (typically) all metal planetary transmission with in many cases built in adjustable over torque protection, not that you would want that in this case.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[pastprimitive]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/957/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2014-02-28T04:47:22Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/51081/#p51081</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: The benefits of upgrading to a geared extruder?]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/51072/#p51072" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>Lexan (polycarb) will smell very crappy to cut on the lasercutter. Usually every month someone tries to cut it on our university 40W laser before we&#039;re like &quot;fuck, someone tried to cut lexan again.&quot;&nbsp; I&#039;m sure a better laser can handle it without problem, but it&#039;s certainly harder to cut than acrylic. It&#039;s also not remarkably stronger than ABS. Kinda surprising. it is a wonderful material but when I looked up the specs this past summer I was somewhat surprised it wasn&#039;t as wonderful as I thought. </p><p>Nylon would frankly make a better gear. I don&#039;t know how suitable it is for lasercutting though.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[Tomek]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/192/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2014-02-28T03:02:54Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/51072/#p51072</id>
		</entry>
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