my favorite was the recommending buying cheap E3D clones

I do read a lot about the debate about cheap E3D clones and authentic E3D online, there are many people believing authentic E3D is better than cheap E3D clones in many way, which is problely true. but no one seems to be able to tell the benefit.

To be clear, I have no experience with authentic E3D, so I'm not saying E3D clones are better than authentic E3D. My recommendation simply based on compare of cheap E3D clone and authentic Da Vinci jr. hotend and conclusion is cheap E3D clones are better than authentic Da Vinci jr. hotend in terms of not jaming and print quality. Whether authentic E3D can provide better print quality or really worth the additional cost is not part of my conclusion.

Maybe you need to learn flattery when you see it. I happen to consider you the most knowledgeable here on XYZ not that my opinion matters and the fact you seem bothered by it means it must have some weight to you. So just accept the compliment and move on. I am not giving you an apology for a compliment and praise. If anyone is owed an apology it is me. But I can move own and not let little things like a post on bulletin board bother me.

If you don't want to be seen as the most knowledgeable on XYZ then maybe you should stop trying to encourage people to buy one regardless of price or work they would have to put in to it to make it worth anything. You might want to read Bozot's post and take it to heart. I am not the only one here that feels you are trying a little too hard to push XYZ on to people that will most likely regret their purchase later.

Like Bozot said not many have the knowledge to do a logic swap. Like you have said the only way to really make an XYZ worth anything is to do some mods and many of those are beyond the average user who buys one of these machines for prototyping and simply expects it and the software to run perfectly out of the box.

I can not appreciate this kind of flattery in any way. And my register day on this form is the first day that I ever own an XYZ product. So I consider myself newbie. I did have an monoprice mini before this but didn't get to use it much because of the noise. I bought my first Jr. without read any recommendation or knowing it use property filament and I regretted my decision at that time and I believe I'm not the only one did that. I read instruction on this website and convert it to RAMPS, and it so far runs great. I then bought another one and convert it and it also runs great. Now I'm glad I choose to buy Da Vinci Jr. I'm scientist and I only trust experiment data. And I value my reputation for the same reason.

I did try other so called real 3D printer that have large print size but don't have case, they vibrate and generate large noise and most importantly, without a case, the print tend to wrap in winter when cold and heater in the room take control alternatively in Boston. And I deeply regretted waste money on these printer and luckly, the two Jr. work just fine even in Winter. And for whatever reason, other printer require adjustment of the bed leveling every once a while, but Jr. bed stay leveled for a long time after first adjustment.

I agree not everyone capble doing logic swap, and my recommendation always come with a term, "if you are confident to do RAMPS conversion", And for the same reason, I tried to come with simpler solution to make the conversion easier. However, I never encourage people attempt the conversion without knowing they are confident they can do it.

I am just going to throw this out, but for many noise is not a concern. You seem to be very sensitive to noise and have a special living condition that just makes this worse. However most have places they can put printers to minimize noise and others just don't even care. There are also others that may not mind a printer in the $1000 or less range which is the more normal 3dPrinter buyer range.

In that case there are a multitude of printers out there if you just shop a little that are stable, reliable and quite in relative terms meaning you could easily carry on a conversation near it at normal speech and it won't keep you awake being in another room and these don't even have an enclosure in most cases. My Ct'c not to be confused with the clones sold under the CTC umbrella is the best printer I have ever owned when it comes to FDM. Unfortunately I have moved on to Direct UV SLA printing now and the CTC get little use anymore.

I would consider a JR as nothing more than a test machine some one could by cheaply to get there feet wet and see if 3d printing is right for them and what they expected. I however would not use a Jr or any XYZ for that reason for real production work. I see XYZ as a machine limited to those who are on a tight budget but would like to give 3d printing a try and nothing more.

And again with XYZ the old Proverb is fact. You get what you pay for. If you want a real production level printer with a real build area of more than 6 inches cube then you need to be ready to drop $500 or more.

Your CTC is the best printer you ever owned, and you still replaced the mainboard, LCD, and hotend?

Wanhao Duplicator 7 has a build area of 120x70x200mm, and you think Jr. 150X150X150mm is too small?

I am just going to throw this out, but for many noise is not a concern. You seem to be very sensitive to noise and have a special living condition that just makes this worse. However most have places they can put printers to minimize noise and others just don't even care. There are also others that may not mind a printer in the $1000 or less range which is the more normal 3dPrinter buyer range.

In that case there are a multitude of printers out there if you just shop a little that are stable, reliable and quite in relative terms meaning you could easily carry on a conversation near it at normal speech and it won't keep you awake being in another room and these don't even have an enclosure in most cases. My Ct'c not to be confused with the clones sold under the CTC umbrella is the best printer I have ever owned when it comes to FDM. Unfortunately I have moved on to Direct UV SLA printing now and the CTC get little use anymore.

I would consider a JR as nothing more than a test machine some one could by cheaply to get there feet wet and see if 3d printing is right for them and what they expected. I however would not use a Jr or any XYZ for that reason for real production work. I see XYZ as a machine limited to those who are on a tight budget but would like to give 3d printing a try and nothing more.

I always put pros and cons in my instructions and recommendations. And I always list the reason I recommend is because of the quiet and inexpensive. I'm not that sensitive to the noise, it is the people around me are sensitive to the noise and I believe there are other people sensitive to the noise too.

If people have plenty of money to spend on 3D printer, I don't have problem with that, and they should have adequate customer service to support them and therefore no need to read my post. If people don't care about all the noise and vibrations, and want large print, they should see it in pros and cons. 

I agree Jr is not for real production work. The overall print size is a hard limit. I only use it to prototype parts for biomedical equipment. Those who are on a tight budget but would like to give 3D printing a try is exactly the people that I'm trying to help, given they have some DIY experience on electronics and can follow instruction. To be clear, so called on a tight budget doesn't means they can not make enough money to afford it, but limited by people they love or care for whatever reason. I don't think this is ever a problem for those use it for real production work and make money out of the printing product in anyway.

In that case there are a multitude of printers out there if you just shop a little that are stable, reliable and quite in relative terms meaning you could easily carry on a conversation near it at normal speech and it won't keep you awake being in another room and these don't even have an enclosure in most cases. My Ct'c not to be confused with the clones sold under the CTC umbrella is the best printer I have ever owned when it comes to FDM. Unfortunately I have moved on to Direct UV SLA printing now and the CTC get little use anymore.

I would consider a JR as nothing more than a test machine some one could by cheaply to get there feet wet and see if 3d printing is right for them and what they expected. I however would not use a Jr or any XYZ for that reason for real production work. I see XYZ as a machine limited to those who are on a tight budget but would like to give 3d printing a try and nothing more.

And again with XYZ the old Proverb is fact. You get what you pay for. If you want a real production level printer with a real build area of more than 6 inches cube then you need to be ready to drop $500 or more.

You may not recommend that people purchase an XYZ printer at fuill price, but why do you recommend they purchase it at all? From your post I see you saying they should purchase the printer then convert it to another control board. Maybe they do not have the experience or money to do that. Why not just tell them the truth that this company is not worth waisting their money on? By purchasing XYZ products you are supporting the company no matter how you use the printer. No sales, no company.

I always ask them to read instruction and make sure they are confident. I don't think Jr. is not worth wasting money on. I personally have two Jr. and they are quiet and trouble free after ramps conversion. I have not leveling the bed or clean the hotend jam for more than three month, and that's about when I finish fine tune the printer.

Let's face it. Jr. have a well build case and axis's, it does not shake or vibrate at all, this is very rare for 3D printer under $300. Not to mention it is very quiet. I'm trying to help people avoid all its defect and take advantage of its good quality while save money. What is wrong with that?

If I have another inexpensive 3D printer that is quiet and work reliably after whatever mod, I would definite recommend it and post detail instructions. But I am still looking for something that is better and not that expensive. If you have 3D printer under $300 that is as quiet and work reliably after whatever mod including replace the main board, please let me know.

Again, I do not support XYZPrinting, but I don't hate it either. I have never contact their customer service and I guess that is why I don't hate it. I have no need to flatter the company or discredit the company disregard the truth. All I'm offering is the truth and trying to help people, and I always include both pros and cons in my instructions. All my recommendation taken save money into consideration, you can dig out all my previous post to verify it.

carl_m1968 wrote:

Tin Falcon wrote:

Some poor sucker will think it is good deal then come here for help.

Well fortunately for them we have our resident XYZ expert in house now. Allow me to introduce once again yizhou.he...

Carl, frankly, I don't appreciate it.

Once I can consider it a joke, not again and again!

I'm offering my honest opinion,  and trying to help people that is not as rich as you to get access to affordable 3D printing. And you alway discourage people and never apologize after hurt others feeling. You only use half of your post to help people and use the other half to discourage people!

I have never recommend people to buy xyzprinting print at its orginal price, and I have never recommend people to buy their pricey filament. You can dig out all my post and list anything that I said is flatter xyzprinting product that is not ture.

I need a serious apology!

Maybe you need to learn flattery when you see it. I happen to consider you the most knowledgeable here on XYZ not that my opinion matters and the fact you seem bothered by it means it must have some weight to you. So just accept the compliment and move on. I am not giving you an apology for a compliment and praise. If anyone is owed an apology it is me. But I can move own and not let little things like a post on bulletin board bother me.

If you don't want to be seen as the most knowledgeable on XYZ then maybe you should stop trying to encourage people to buy one regardless of price or work they would have to put in to it to make it worth anything. You might want to read Bozot's post and take it to heart. I am not the only one here that feels you are trying a little too hard to push XYZ on to people that will most likely regret their purchase later.

Like Bozot said not many have the knowledge to do a logic swap. Like you have said the only way to really make an XYZ worth anything is to do some mods and many of those are beyond the average user who buys one of these machines for prototyping and simply expects it and the software to run perfectly out of the box.

Tin Falcon wrote:

Some poor sucker will think it is good deal then come here for help.

Well fortunately for them we have our resident XYZ expert in house now. Allow me to introduce once again yizhou.he...

Carl, frankly, I don't appreciate it.

Once I can consider it a joke, not again and again!

I'm offering my honest opinion,  and trying to help people that is not as rich as you to get access to affordable 3D printing. And you alway discourage people and never apologize after hurt others feeling. You only use half of your post to help people and use the other half to discourage people!

I have never recommend people to buy xyzprinting print at its orginal price, and I have never recommend people to buy their pricey filament. You can dig out all my post and list anything that I said is flatter xyzprinting product that is not ture.

I need a serious apology!

Some poor sucker will think it is good deal then come here for help.

Well fortunately for them we have our resident XYZ expert in house now. Allow me to introduce once again yizhou.he...

Yes, and hey everyone, get ready to open your wallets to XYZ for repair costs and absolutely no support for their products. You will get what you pay for. I would not even look at these products again.

No support may not be a bad thing, they charge you a lot for replacement parts, sometimes you can buy a new machine with it on ebay. Plus, the support from XYZPrinting is terrible, but the community support is outstanding. Look at this forum, and thingiverse, there are guides and instructions and 3d print models to upgrade the machine, from swap out motherboard to hack the filament. Not to mention timely response to help troubleshoot.

To me, there is only two things needed to upgrade the jr. swap the motherboard and E3D hotend. E3D hotend mod is pretty much recommended for every cheap 3D printer under $300. So, if the print size is medium (150mmx150mmx150mm) doesn't bother you, and you are capble of doing RAMPS conversion following the instruction, I would still recommend getting a Jr. if you see good deal in upcoming Black Friday. (good deal means <$150).