Take a look here:

http://form1printer.pbworks.com/w/page/ … he%20Form1

As for the mirrors, when I cleaned my galvo mirrors, I used a 5x jewelers loupe to make sure there's not dust or fine lint strands, and then used a microfiber cloth, rather than a Qtip.  I did use the Qtip to clean the laser lens; stick it in the opening, and give it a quick twist, then use the magnifier glass to make sure there's nothing left behind.

I don't know what to tell you.  I think we would both agree that neither print is acceptable.  The beige one exhibits overcuring and rashing, the right one is undercured, and is lifting.

I don't know what is wrong, but there's something wrong with the printer, most likely the laser.  I had similar problems with my original F1+, only not quite as extreme.  In my case I could print fine with certain resins (like clear), but not anything else, and it was because of a weak laser.

Once I bought the new (er) unit, all my problems were solved.  I can now print with the majority of resins available, and I can also print at the finer resolutions which was a problem before.

As for the ALW resin, as I said before, your mileage may vary, except in you case, your mileage is terrible.  Nonetheless, on the FormLabs forum, nearly everyone that has tried this resin in both the F1+ and the F2, has had nothing but good feedback.

I wish I can suggest something, but I don't really have a good idea.

If you're really sure the optical path is spotless, then I would consider replacing the laser with another identical one (they're available).  I understand that each printer's laser was individually calibrated at the factory, and a a power level table is embedded in the firmware, but I don't think the deviations from unit to unit would be that great that it wouldn't work, so I would try a replacement to see what happens.

BTW, have you actually gotten any useful prints done with that thing?

I have not got a useful print out of it yet and am about ready to put it on ebay as a parts unit. I will look into a new laser, just need to find a source for them. I was hoping to give this one a chance as I could use the larger print area as opposed to the D7.  I can't really afford the average price of a F1+ and this one I got for a steal but I may have been the one that got stolen from. The seller said it was being sold due to a resin spill inside. I cleaned all that out and repaired the tilt motor.I can't see nor find any resin on critical parts like motors or optics. So I assumed it was good now but I am still having issues and am about ready to throw in the towel.

I don't know what is wrong, but there's something wrong with the printer, most likely the laser.  I had similar problems with my original F1+, only not quite as extreme.  In my case I could print fine with certain resins (like clear), but not anything else, and it was because of a weak laser.

Once I bought the new (er) unit, all my problems were solved.  I can now print with the majority of resins available, and I can also print at the finer resolutions which was a problem before.

As for the ALW resin, as I said before, your mileage may vary, except in you case, your mileage is terrible.  Nonetheless, on the FormLabs forum, nearly everyone that has tried this resin in both the F1+ and the F2, has had nothing but good feedback.

I wish I can suggest something, but I don't really have a good idea.

If you're really sure the optical path is spotless, then I would consider replacing the laser with another identical one (they're available).  I understand that each printer's laser was individually calibrated at the factory, and a a power level table is embedded in the firmware, but I don't think the deviations from unit to unit would be that great that it wouldn't work, so I would try a replacement to see what happens.

BTW, have you actually gotten any useful prints done with that thing?

I have torn the unit down and inspected/cleaned all the optics. They are impeccable. The vat is a new vat. I am at a loss here.

carl_m1968 wrote:

I thought it might be. I remember when I had my Form 1+ the resin flowed fairly quick across the vat and leveled out to where I could see the fill level almost as soon as I poured. This stuff I literally have to pour a little and with a few seconds, pour a little more and wait to make sure I am not over or under filling. I suspect part of the problem I am seeing is that the the resin is no flowing fully back into the void before the model comes back down and the laser starts the next scan. So it is only getting a partial layer. The when the peel happens that partial layer is being pulled and folded over like a flap when it comes back down into the resin again. I have some clear non-pigment stuff that is much thinner for my DUV. I may see if it will mix with the ALW stuff and thin it some. I would use the clear stuff but it does not have an inhibitor and I am afraid the laser will just cause too much light bleed to get an accurate print.

It might work for a FORM 1+, but my FORM 1 does not seem to like it. Even after checking the optics and making sure they are spotless I still get these little flakes that are about 1mm larger than the object and about 1 layer thick at random layers. Usually in places that transition to a smaller width. I might also try and older version of Preform that is closer to the FORM 1's era before the 1+.

Let me say this, I've observed the baviour of various liquids in the tank, and I can tell with a high degree of certainty, that the surface of the PDMS is always coated with resin, unless you let the level go so low that there simply isn't enough resin to go around.

The time it takes for the tank to dip during the peel process is too quick to even get any of the resin off the PDMS surface, much less it not "refilling the void".  If anything, that would happen with really thin watery liquids, not the slow, viscous stuff.

If what you say happened, then there are only a few explanation, you didn't add enough resin, or there's something wrong with the PDMS surface.  If you were to pour out the resin, does it run off, and bead off the surface?  If so, the surface has some coating on it that needs cleaning. The only thing  I can suggest to clean it with, is dishwashing liquid (I've used Dawn liquid).

The rashing you see is due to "stray" light curing outside the drawing path.  If you haven't cleaned ALL the mirrors, you need to, and tha includes the galvo mirrors. The larger the mirror, the less effect smudges have, conversly, the tiny mirrors must be spotless.  The tiniest spec will have dramatic effects on the print.  You should also clean the laser lens as well.

One other thing, since you bought this used, there's a possibility the problem is with laser itself, it could have reached its end of useful lufe, and it no longer outputs the necessary power, but that usually translates into prints that are failing altogether, since the supports don't  cure properly, and subsequently the rest of the print fails.

As far as I can tell a whole bunch of people bought the ALW resin, and NOT ONE has complained about it, so I can say the problem lies ekswhere, not with the resin, or its viscosity.

You are probably right. I just wanted to avoid having to tear it down again. The smaller mirror and galvos are near impossible to get to unless I take off the cover again. The laser is even more of a beast, but I know where to get new ones that are OEM new and not a bad price.

I thought it might be. I remember when I had my Form 1+ the resin flowed fairly quick across the vat and leveled out to where I could see the fill level almost as soon as I poured. This stuff I literally have to pour a little and with a few seconds, pour a little more and wait to make sure I am not over or under filling. I suspect part of the problem I am seeing is that the the resin is no flowing fully back into the void before the model comes back down and the laser starts the next scan. So it is only getting a partial layer. The when the peel happens that partial layer is being pulled and folded over like a flap when it comes back down into the resin again. I have some clear non-pigment stuff that is much thinner for my DUV. I may see if it will mix with the ALW stuff and thin it some. I would use the clear stuff but it does not have an inhibitor and I am afraid the laser will just cause too much light bleed to get an accurate print.

It might work for a FORM 1+, but my FORM 1 does not seem to like it. Even after checking the optics and making sure they are spotless I still get these little flakes that are about 1mm larger than the object and about 1 layer thick at random layers. Usually in places that transition to a smaller width. I might also try and older version of Preform that is closer to the FORM 1's era before the 1+.

Let me say this, I've observed the baviour of various liquids in the tank, and I can tell with a high degree of certainty, that the surface of the PDMS is always coated with resin, unless you let the level go so low that there simply isn't enough resin to go around.

The time it takes for the tank to dip during the peel process is too quick to even get any of the resin off the PDMS surface, much less it not "refilling the void".  If anything, that would happen with really thin watery liquids, not the slow, viscous stuff.

If what you say happened, then there are only a few explanation, you didn't add enough resin, or there's something wrong with the PDMS surface.  If you were to pour out the resin, does it run off, and bead off the surface?  If so, the surface has some coating on it that needs cleaning. The only thing  I can suggest to clean it with, is dishwashing liquid (I've used Dawn liquid).

The rashing you see is due to "stray" light curing outside the drawing path.  If you haven't cleaned ALL the mirrors, you need to, and tha includes the galvo mirrors. The larger the mirror, the less effect smudges have, conversly, the tiny mirrors must be spotless.  The tiniest spec will have dramatic effects on the print.  You should also clean the laser lens as well.

One other thing, since you bought this used, there's a possibility the problem is with laser itself, it could have reached its end of useful lufe, and it no longer outputs the necessary power, but that usually translates into prints that are failing altogether, since the supports don't  cure properly, and subsequently the rest of the print fails.

As far as I can tell a whole bunch of people bought the ALW resin, and NOT ONE has complained about it, so I can say the problem lies ekswhere, not with the resin, or its viscosity.

pirvan wrote:

If anything, the ALW resin is slightly less viscous than the Form labs resin, not thicker.

Are you using the suggested profile.  For the beige, they recommend using the white v1 setting.

I do not understand, why you say, that ALW is less visous, than Form Labs resin.

FormLabs white/black/grey: 850 – 900 cps @ 25 °C (77 °F)
FormLabs tough: 970 cps
ALW: 1100 - 1400 cps

ALW is thicker than FormLabs.

...On the other hand, viscosity above 850 is still quite a thick compared to other resins out there, that are in 50-500 cps range

I thought it might be. I remember when I had my Form 1+ the resin flowed fairly quick across the vat and leveled out to where I could see the fill level almost as soon as I poured. This stuff I literally have to pour a little and with a few seconds, pour a little more and wait to make sure I am not over or under filling. I suspect part of the problem I am seeing is that the the resin is no flowing fully back into the void before the model comes back down and the laser starts the next scan. So it is only getting a partial layer. The when the peel happens that partial layer is being pulled and folded over like a flap when it comes back down into the resin again. I have some clear non-pigment stuff that is much thinner for my DUV. I may see if it will mix with the ALW stuff and thin it some. I would use the clear stuff but it does not have an inhibitor and I am afraid the laser will just cause too much light bleed to get an accurate print.

It might work for a FORM 1+, but my FORM 1 does not seem to like it. Even after checking the optics and making sure they are spotless I still get these little flakes that are about 1mm larger than the object and about 1 layer thick at random layers. Usually in places that transition to a smaller width. I might also try and older version of Preform that is closer to the FORM 1's era before the 1+.

this is what they provided me.

Modeling Plus (Olive Gray): 1100cps @ 25oC
 
FYI, Modeling (Beige / Black): 1400cps @ 25oC, was tested on a bottom down DLP printer without much problem [heated VAT @ 40oC].

Additional information:
                Modeling Plus Resin, viscosity drops to 390cP when heated to 104oF/40oC [please keep within this temperature limit]

The statement was not based on any specs or scientific proof, just my observations on the flow of the 2 resins.  The ALW pours out of the bottle faster, and seems to flow easier than the clear.

BTW, where did you find the information on the ALW resin?  The MSDS sheets are pretty vague as to the viscosity of the resin (50-3000 cps).

If anything, the ALW resin is slightly less viscous than the Form labs resin, not thicker.

Are you using the suggested profile.  For the beige, they recommend using the white v1 setting.

I do not understand, why you say, that ALW is less visous, than Form Labs resin.

FormLabs white/black/grey: 850 – 900 cps @ 25 °C (77 °F)
FormLabs tough: 970 cps
ALW: 1100 - 1400 cps

ALW is thicker than FormLabs.

...On the other hand, viscosity above 850 is still quite a thick compared to other resins out there, that are in 50-500 cps range

Update:

Well once I got home and looked, I did find a faint smudge on the primary mirror near the middle. It was only visible with my really bright LED flashlight. I cleaned it up along with a bit of dust and looks to be printing normal so far. Will know for sure in another hour.

https://support.formlabs.com/hc/en-us/a … nt-Defects

I'm pretty sure your problem is not related to the resin itself.  It's probably caused by dirty optics or dirty tank. Something is deflecting part of the laser beam, causing it to flare sideways, producing the cured scales/skins.

If anything, the ALW resin is slightly less viscous than the Form labs resin, not thicker.

Are you using the suggested profile.  For the beige, they recommend using the white v1 setting.

Yep I printed out the tips sheet and did exactly what it said. I still get layers of skin hanging from the print. I am trying another resin now to see if it does the same. Then I will try the clear I normally use with my Duplicator 7. I just want to see if the weird skins are from the resin or the printer. If from the printer that means the laser is wandering off on a layer or two and exposing a larger area around the model. I really don't see this happening on a random layer. If it had mechanical issues with the galvos it would happen on every or most layers, not a few layers. I also can do a dry print with paper in place of resin and see very clean lines from the laser and galvos. Maybe their resin is not so compatible with the From 1. As I mentioned I may have to by some FL Form 1 resin and give it a try to see if it works. If I can get this printer working right and confirm it works, I may sell it or sell the Duplicaotr 7. I really have no need for two SLA printers. I am not by any means a volume builder. 

The beige I got from them has the consistency of honey if I pour it in one corner it takes several seconds to reach the other corners and level out. I am watching the time between peels and I really don't think enough time is being allowed for the resin to fully flow back into the void left after the peel.